Self-Sustaining Base - What mod?

[kerbalfreak]

I'm playing with Kerbal Planetary Base Systems and TAC-LS. Loved all the resources and modules, and the possibility to make self-sustaining bases in some places, and others don't, and using diferent methods. Some places with water to use and produce O2, others with H2 and the sabatier reaction to produce water.

After MUCH effort and time, I managed to land and assembly a self-sustaining base in the Mun (where I found water).

Everything worked fine, util I warped from the Space Center. Electricity was running out during night, because TAC-LS don't support fuel cells. Ok, sent a big RGT (added by Modular Rocket Systems), and attached with KIS. No problem with EC now, but it ignores all the converters and the greenhouse when I warp from the Space Center or other ship, and don't save the waste. It was very frustrating. The base is only self-sustaining when I looking at it, when not, it simply throw away all the food. With the base loaded I can time-warp for years and nothing changes.

Is this suposed to happen or I'm having a bug?

I looked at USI-LS and made a self-sustaining base in the runway. When time-warping from the base, ok. In other vessels the timer counts down as if aren't any converter or greenhouse running, but I don't recieve any messages. When open the base again, everything is fine. Don't seem it is working properly.

What do you guys can say about this? What do you recommends?

I really want to use KBPS, with a life support mod that has a moderate difficult. And I want do make self-sustainings bases that don't need ANY type of management once it has been established.

A SS from the Mun base, still missing the flying-rover that will explore all the biomes and bring the science back to the lab:

[mivanit]

If youre having problems with background simulation stuff, Kerbalism is the way to go IMO. Default configuration is actually quite a big more complex than TAC-LS, which is itself harder than USI-LS, but there's lots of features you can disable. Fully closed loop is also possible I think but you might need some MM patches to get parts from other packs to work for it.

[steedcrugeon]

I think there is a mod called backgroundProcessing or similar which lets the life-support stuff continue to work for unloaded vessels?

[kerbalfreak]

  On 11/3/2017 at 3:22 AM, mivanit said:

If youre having problems with background simulation stuff, Kerbalism is the way to go IMO. Default configuration is actually quite a big more complex than TAC-LS, which is itself harder than USI-LS, but there's lots of features you can disable. Fully closed loop is also possible I think but you might need some MM patches to get parts from other packs to work for it.

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Well, Kerbalism scares me! Will take a look, KPBS even supports it, wich is very good news for me, I really want to stay with KPBS. If a disable some features it can become similar to TAC-LS?

USI-LS dont update the counter properly, but when I return to the base it makes all the calculations and everything is as it should be. Is usable, but far from ideal.

Thanks!
 

  On 11/3/2017 at 7:46 AM, steedcrugeon said:

I think there is a mod called backgroundProcessing or similar which lets the life-support stuff continue to work for unloaded vessels?

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Yeah, I use CKAN and it is a dependency. The documentation of TAC-LS says it's not needed anymore... So I tried to remove and TAC-LS stopped working. Will try to use it with USI-LS and see what happens.

Thanks!

[mivanit]

  On 11/3/2017 at 10:44 AM, kerbalfreak said:

Well, Kerbalism scares me! Will take a look, KPBS even supports it, wich is very good news for me, I really want to stay with KPBS. If a disable some features it can become similar to TAC-LS?

USI-LS dont update the counter properly, but when I return to the base it makes all the calculations and everything is as it should be. Is usable, but far from ideal.

Thanks!
 

Yeah, I use CKAN and it is a dependency. The documentation of TAC-LS says it's not needed anymore... So I tried to remove and TAC-LS stopped working. Will try to use it with USI-LS and see what happens.

Thanks!

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Kerbalism is basically TAC-LS with a bunch of added stuff, including pressure/temperature control, kerbal sanity/health, part malfunctions, better background simulation, a slightly-more-complex-than-stock signal system (and automation features for it), some science storage tweaks, and space weather/radiation that affects both kerbal health and part malfunctions (plus loads of features that im probably forgetting). Any of those features can be disabled. If you just want to keep the features like food/water/O2/EC consumption, its near identical to TAC-LS in terms of complexity (but is balanced slightly differently). It also offers a nicer status/control panel than any of the other LS mods but thats just my opinion  

[kerbalfreak]

  On 11/3/2017 at 4:18 PM, mivanit said:

Kerbalism is basically TAC-LS with a bunch of added stuff, including pressure/temperature control, kerbal sanity/health, part malfunctions, better background simulation, a slightly-more-complex-than-stock signal system (and automation features for it), some science storage tweaks, and space weather/radiation that affects both kerbal health and part malfunctions (plus loads of features that im probably forgetting). Any of those features can be disabled. If you just want to keep the features like food/water/O2/EC consumption, its near identical to TAC-LS in terms of complexity (but is balanced slightly differently). It also offers a nicer status/control panel than any of the other LS mods but thats just my opinion  

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The menu of USI-LS not updating is a feature, not a bug. I tested many situations, and everytime I loaded the vessel all the calculations were made correctly, differently from TAC-LS. And it only kills the kerbals after the vessel is loaded and the calculations are made. In my tests none kerbals were killed because of miscalculations of the engine. All the kerbals that died were killed on purpose, for science.

Well, I taking a look at Kerbalism... But it seems very confusing and complex  The settings are made in the config file? Is there any in-game menu, or tutorial?

It seems to messy around even with the radiation from the RTGs and nuclear engines, from many mods out there. I don't know if its a good ideia to use something like this... Seems to aim for something too serious for a game... With green little people.

But, I'll take a look anyway, with a new save!

[mivanit]

nah, I didn't mean the menu was bugged I just meant the Kerbalism one looks/feels nicer to me haha

Theres a settings.cfg file, as well as a seperate profile config file for LS stuff. The Kerbalism Github Wiki is a good place to start if you want to learn more about it. It definitely does aim for a pretty serious game, but it's nice to have the option for more depth in the game in my opinion. There isn't an in-game menu for configuring the difficulty and features unfortunately

if you need some help writing a config though I'd be glad to help!

[Urses]

MKS and USI-LS go both hand in hand with the game inherited CatchUp mechanik this means if you use timewarp on a unloaded vehicle it calculates below 6 hours with actual stats present on vehicle. If the time is longer as 6 hours the system breaxks down the time passed in 6 hours chunks and calculates all all recivers and users with present stats. If as example your base have only solar panels but enough ec storage for the night and you reload the vehicle at night you may get in trouble bc the vatteries with 0 ec input run dry(KSP not mode issue). But in all other situations it will work fine like it looks witch materials would be gathered processed and stored in this time warp (other benefit of USI, with enabled Planetary Warehouse you are not limited to your tankage). This menas if you build a base woth enough capacity to store/use ressources for 6 hours you never be in a situtuon that something breaks and it works fine because it use the game owned mechaniks. 

As far as i know Kerbalism changes this mechaniks and works with it own mechaniks but there i have no informations which way this will calculate the time warp events.

Hope this helps a little to understand what is going on.

[kerbalfreak]

  On 11/3/2017 at 8:36 PM, mivanit said:

nah, I didn't mean the menu was bugged I just meant the Kerbalism one looks/feels nicer to me haha

Theres a settings.cfg file, as well as a seperate profile config file for LS stuff. The Kerbalism Github Wiki is a good place to start if you want to learn more about it. It definitely does aim for a pretty serious game, but it's nice to have the option for more depth in the game in my opinion. There isn't an in-game menu for configuring the difficulty and features unfortunately

if you need some help writing a config though I'd be glad to help!

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No, I was thinking that it maybe was a bug haha

I really love that with TAC-LS you can make different approaches depending on the place: https://github.com/Nils277/KerbalPlanetaryBaseSystems/wiki/Life-Support-Guide

But the background thing seems very bugged, many people complain, especially with EC. And my first Self-Sustaining base don't work in the background, I imagine all the problems I will probably face in the future, wasting my save game.

Wll, if you say so, I will waste your time a little 

I'm reading the wiki, still confusing. Some aspects seem very easy to disable, like "Reliability", "Signal", "Science", but what about radiation, pressurization in the cabins? How the habitation thing works?

And the config file is also very cluttered: https://i.imgur.com/VeyPKAH.png

I tried to organize it, got this:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Kerbalism
{
 

// profile used
 

Profile = default                   // valid values are: 'default', 'classic, 'none' or custom profiles

  

// user-defined features

Reliability = true                  // component malfunctions and critical failures

Signal = true                       // communications using low-gain and high-gain antennas
  
Science = true                      // science data storage, transmission and analysis
  
SpaceWeather = true                 // coronal mass ejections

Automation = true                   // control vessel components using scripts

// temperature settings

SurvivalTemperature = 295.0         // ideal living temperature

SurvivalRange = 5.0                 // sweet spot around survival temperature

// quality-of-life settings

IdealLivingSpace = 40.0             // ideal living space per-capita in m^3

ComfortFirmGround = 0.4             // firm-ground comfort factor

ComfortExercise = 0.2               // exercise comfort factor

ComfortNotAlone = 0.1               // not-alone comfort factor

ComfortCallHome = 0.1               // call-home comfort factor

ComfortPanorama = 0.1               // panorama comfort factor

// pressure settings
 

PressureFactor = 10.0               // pressurized modifier value for vessels below the threshold

PressureThreshold = 0.9             // level of atmosphere resource that determine pressurized status

// poisoning settings
  PoisoningFactor = 0.0               // poisoning modifier value for vessels below the threshold

PoisoningThreshold = 0.02           // level of waste atmosphere resource that determine co2 poisoning status

// radiation settings
  ShieldingEfficiency = 0.9        // proportion of radiation blocked by shielding (at max amount)

StormRadiation = 5.0                // radiation during a CME event in rad/h

ExternRadiation = 0.04              // radiation outside the heliopause in rad/h

// storm settings

StormMinTime = 2160000.0            // minimum interval between storms over a system
  
StormMaxTime = 8640000.0            // maximum interval between storms over a system
  
StormDuration = 21600.0             // how long a storm last once it hit

StormEjectionSpeed = 1000000.0      // cme speed in m/s

// signal settings
  UnlinkedControl = none              // available control for unlinked vessels: 'none', 'limited' or 'full'

ExtendedAntenna = true              // antenna only work if extended

  // science settings
  
ScienceDialog = true                // keep showing the stock science dialog

  // reliability 
settings
  QualityScale = 4.0                  // scale applied to MTBF for high-quality 
components
  CriticalChance = 0.25               // proportion of malfunctions that lead to 
critical failures
  SafeModeChance = 0.5                // proportion of malfunctions fixed remotely for unmanned vessels

IncentiveRedundancy = false         // each malfunction will increase the MTBF of components in the same redundancy group

// misc

EnforceCoherency = true             // detect and avoid issues at high timewarp in external modules

TrackingPivot = true                // simulate tracking solar panel around the pivot
  
HeadLampsCost = 0.002               // EC/s cost if eva headlamps are on

DeathReputation = 100.0             // reputation to remove in case of death
  
BreakdownReputation = 10.0          // reputation to remove in case of breakdown

StockMessages = false               // use the stock message system instead of our own
  
MessageLength = 4                   // duration of messages on screen in seconds
  
LowQualityRendering = false         // use less particles to render the magnetic fields
}

 

What this should look like if I want Kerbalism to work equal to TAC-LS, with only minor differences in how the resources are balanced? With everything that TAC-LS dont cover turned off?

Also, how about Self-Sustaining bases using KPBS?

Thanks, I'm immensely grateful with your help!!

  On 11/3/2017 at 9:06 PM, Urses said:

MKS and USI-LS go both hand in hand with the game inherited CatchUp mechanik this means if you use timewarp on a unloaded vehicle it calculates below 6 hours with actual stats present on vehicle. If the time is longer as 6 hours the system breaxks down the time passed in 6 hours chunks and calculates all all recivers and users with present stats. If as example your base have only solar panels but enough ec storage for the night and you reload the vehicle at night you may get in trouble bc the vatteries with 0 ec input run dry(KSP not mode issue). But in all other situations it will work fine like it looks witch materials would be gathered processed and stored in this time warp (other benefit of USI, with enabled Planetary Warehouse you are not limited to your tankage). This menas if you build a base woth enough capacity to store/use ressources for 6 hours you never be in a situtuon that something breaks and it works fine because it use the game owned mechaniks. 

As far as i know Kerbalism changes this mechaniks and works with it own mechaniks but there i have no informations which way this will calculate the time warp events.

Hope this helps a little to understand what is going on.

Expand  

I discovered the same thing recently. The menu/countdown don't update for unloaded vessels, but when I load then, all the calculations are made correctly. I don't plan to use MKS, only KPBS and Feline Rovers, so the "Planetary Warehouse" thing will be disabled.

Thanks!!

[Bottle Rocketeer 500]

  On 11/3/2017 at 4:18 PM, mivanit said:

Kerbalism is basically TAC-LS with a bunch of added stuff

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No, that is not true. TAC-LS has more realistic LS (oxygen, water, food,etc.). As much as I love it, the antenna feature keeps me from progressing in my save, because Tantares, for example, is incompatible with it. I use TAC-LS and Kerbalism in that save. Kerbalism kills incompatible mods' deployable antennas.

[mivanit]

  On 11/4/2017 at 11:01 AM, Bottle Rocketeer 500 said:

No, that is not true. TAC-LS has more realistic LS (oxygen, water, food,etc.). As much as I love it, the antenna feature keeps me from progressing in my save, because Tantares, for example, is incompatible with it. I use TAC-LS and Kerbalism in that save. Kerbalism kills incompatible mods' deployable antennas.

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Yeah, kerbalism does kill a lot of antennas and make them non functional  i just have a MM patch for the ones i really like

What does TAC-LS have that kerbalism doesn't though?

[Gordon Fecyk]

  On 11/3/2017 at 5:24 PM, kerbalfreak said:

All the kerbals that died were killed on purpose, FOR SCIENCE.

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YOU monsTER. </glados>