Horizon Aeronautics - Development Thread

[Boamere]

Ah, yeah. Lettering and USSR flags are allright.

Even if he wanted to put red it on it would have been fine! I mean it's a game right?

[stubbles]

Definitely some potential issues with the RD-170 side tanks. I really want to break the nozzles off for gimbal control, but they are not sized 0.625 or 1.25 to match KSP stock sizes. It's more of an inbetween, right around 1.0. These nozzles wouldn't be able to fit any other mod parts :\

If I scale the engine size down or up, it's going to toss the size of the fuel tank totally out of whack. Or I could just have tiny engines and not mess with the tank. Would look strange if someone put it near the Zenit though, considering it's basically the same engine as the RD-171 on the Zenit.

I'm trying to look around for solutions.

Edited March 16, 2014 by stubbles

[BLUAV8R]

Definitely some potential issues with the RD-170 side tanks. I really want to break the nozzles off for gimbal control, but they are not sized 0.625 or 1.25 to match KSP stock sizes. It's more of an inbetween, right around 1.0. These nozzles wouldn't be able to fit any other mod parts :\

If I scale the engine size down or up, it's going to toss the size of the fuel tank totally out of whack. Or I could just have tiny engines and not mess with the tank. Would look strange if someone put it near the Zenit though, considering it's basically the same engine as the RD-171 on the Zenit.

I'm trying to look around for solutions.

So some possible solutions would be to possibly not even label the engine as an RD-171 unless you are trying to make an exact replica of the energia system it could work as you could choose one of the other sized russian engines and label it as that possibly? If not, then I wouldn't necessarily have a problem with it being odd sized whatever works best and is easiest honestly would be fine with me stubbles!

Keep it cool

[stubbles]

I was speaking with NathanKell about it in #kspmodders and he suggested that it should be okay with all four nozzles working as one on the Energia boosters since they are RD-170's and not RD-171's. The RD-170 engine gimbals all four nozzles at once, on a single axis, whereas the RD-171's gimbal per-nozzle on two axis. So since Energia has 4 boosters, their roll functionality will still work even with simultaneous single-plane gimbaling of all nozzles . It should technically still work if someone uses two or three boosters. A single would not roll on it's own, however. But at least now I can progress with the engines as-is

[BLUAV8R]

I was speaking with NathanKell about it in #kspmodders and he suggested that it should be okay with all four nozzles working as one on the Energia boosters since they are RD-170's and not RD-171's. The RD-170 engine gimbals all four nozzles at once, on a single axis, whereas the RD-171's gimbal per-nozzle on two axis. So since Energia has 4 boosters, their roll functionality will still work even with simultaneous single-plane gimbaling of all nozzles . It should technically still work if someone uses two or three boosters. A single would not roll on it's own, however. But at least now I can progress with the engines as-is

Glad to see you managed to work it out! Can't wait to help test this system and make it perfect Great work!

[Lexx Thai]

By the way, the Energia side boosters are first stages of Zenith.

Image from Boris Gubanov's book. (I don't know, is this published in English)

[stubbles]

By the way, the Energia side boosters are first stages of Zenith.

For the most part, yeah. The engines on the Energia side boosters are actually RD-170's, while the current Zenit Land/Sea launch systems use the RD-171 engine.

[Guest]

Yeah, but that's just an upgrade to it's guts. Externally, they look very similar, but RD-171 is much more efficient. Also, Zenit-2 used the RD-170.

[stubbles]

Some misc gimbal action, courtesy of dtobi's plugin.

Edited March 19, 2014 by stubbles

[MaverickSawyer]

Dude, that is awesome. I can't wait to fly this.

[stubbles]

Thanks Mav, if I can get everything working, I might have open beta testing. Not too sure yet.

[stubbles]

I'm also thinking of adding the Buran-T cargo module as a default addition, since some people might not have a shuttle to use.

Just saw today that the bulk on the RD-170 boosters are actually landing gear pods - I had no idea. So I'll be getting that working, as well as chute integration for safe landing of the boosters. I might have to pair up with a mod like dtobi's SmartParts, so that I can have certain events take place after staging and such, like chute/gear deployment.

[Guest]

Love it, absolutely love it. Just one thing, the RD-0120s should not have a bright, opaque, orange flame, but rather a rather faint, transparent one, a bit like SSMEs one the Space Shuttle.

Buran-T would be a really neat addition, and could use Block-D you made for Zenit as a booster stage.

Also, keep in mind to place the boosters correctly. They were not quite symmetrically placed around the core:

[stubbles]

Also, keep in mind to place the boosters correctly. They were not quite symmetrically placed around the core

Yeah I've been trying to find info on what the specific mounting angles are, but haven't ran into it yet. Still looking.

[Dave7]

If that picture is accurate, and I was holding my circle template straight, I'd say the top 2 were 15 degrees and the bottom 2 are 30 or 28 degrees.

Edited March 19, 2014 by Dave7

[stubbles]

If that picture is accurate, and I was holding my circle template straight, I'd say the top 2 were 15 degrees and the bottom 2 are 30 or 28 degrees.

I'll give that a shot, thanks Dave!

For the Buran-T cargo pod, I've been trying to find similar ref for it (seems the pod itself doesn't exist). I found someone made a pod for Orbiter, which opened with a double hinge design, which I mocked up here:

I could do that, or go with a single-hinge large clamshell design. Or just blow the walls right off the hinges like fairings. Do you all have a preference?

[NoMrBond]

If it could open/close the doors (for potentially deorbiting) that seems more like it in terms of a reusable asset, less space debris (although the explosive bolts may have been an option for emergency cargo release).

[Roxette]

Go with the banana ('double hinge design') because it looks like something kerbals would do

[scorchdestroya]

I'll give that a shot, thanks Dave!

For the Buran-T cargo pod, I've been trying to find similar ref for it (seems the pod itself doesn't exist). I found someone made a pod for Orbiter, which opened with a double hinge design, which I mocked up here:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1482056/horizon79.gif

I could do that, or go with a single-hinge large clamshell design. Or just blow the walls right off the hinges like fairings. Do you all have a preference?

~Personally, I think the double hinge looks far more AWESOME!

[stubbles]

If it could open/close the doors (for potentially deorbiting) that seems more like it in terms of a reusable asset, less space debris (although the explosive bolts may have been an option for emergency cargo release).

I'll be working on Energia II at some point, which is basically where the center tank is mostly cargo room, where the nose opens and releases a payload. It has it's own wings and flies back like a shuttle.

With this cargo pod here, I just want to have something people can use with the Energia system when I release it, in case they don't have a shuttle. This thing will strap on to the center fuel tank of the normal Energia system.

[Guest]

For the Buran-T cargo pod, I've been trying to find similar ref for it (seems the pod itself doesn't exist). I found someone made a pod for Orbiter, which opened with a double hinge design, which I mocked up here:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1482056/horizon79.gif

I could do that, or go with a single-hinge large clamshell design. Or just blow the walls right off the hinges like fairings. Do you all have a preference?

I think that a double-hinged clamshell is fine. Buran-T was only a concept, and a rough one to boot. It certainly was considered, but the program got canned before it could be refined into an actual design. All data on it is probably in Russian, if it's even available.

[stubbles]

A bit more flushed out.

I'll make an add-on for the BlockDM tug, so it will have more RCS capabilities in orbit, since it'll be pushing heavier loads with this.

or I could make them more traditional, like this:

Edited March 20, 2014 by stubbles

[Daemoria]

That deployment animation is pretty slick. Does that fairing typically de-orbit or does it just contribute to Kessler fun-times?

I say go with the cargopod method, with the opening shell. We have seen plenty of fairings, they're old news. I like having variety in my KSP cargo modules. :]

Edited March 20, 2014 by Daemoria

[stubbles]

Does that fairing typically de-orbit or does it just contribute to Kessler fun-times?

Honestly, I have no idea. I really can't find any info on the Buran-T. On the Energia II it's basically a shuttle in a way, which returns to earth. But for this pod, I think it just burns up or adds to kessler.

[landeTLS]

A bit more flushed out.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1482056/horizon80.gif

I'll make an add-on for the BlockDM tug, so it will have more RCS capabilities in orbit, since it'll be pushing heavier loads with this.

or I could make them more traditional, like this:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1482056/horizon82.gif

I think the traditional one looks the coolest. I think if you are going for a reusable fairing some sliding arm and/or perhaps telescoping stuff would look best. Im not saying the first one dont look cool. Just the second one looks just that bit cooler

Edited March 20, 2014 by landeTLS