Air Superiority Fighter Competition Continued

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Box of Stardust said:

I never bragged. I just reported on my testing results, and never explicitly stated full dominance over the other aircraft tested against.

The Viper had a fighting chance against the RS; second battle shows it. Unfortunately, that battle was skewed by a teamkill by Sidewinder, so it couldn't push it to a 3rd match.

Lastly, most of my testing has gone into the second aircraft, which I'm still working on and is admittedly is getting harder and harder to tune against the leaderboard, given the array of different fighting styles of the top 4. A tune against the TFD could totally work against it, but wouldn't even get past the Du-3.

 

*sigh*... excuses, excuses, excuses. Sometimes it's best not to say anything to pervert embarrassment. Can your next entry beat the one in 3rd? I'm no longer afraid of your aircrafts.

 

But congrats on your 3rd place!

@goduranus, you probably deserve an award for the longest airplane to stay in one place. You've been in second longer then I've been 1st!

[prgmTrouble]

New submission: X-14 Præparet Proelium (BDA)

[Piatzin]

3 hours ago, dundun93 said:

, you probably deserve an award for the longest airplane to stay in one place. You've been in second longer then I've been 1st!

Technically, one of the longest standing craft, if I recall correctly, was the Dorito. It's ranking dropped over time as newer and better fighters popped up, but it still held out a lot, all things considered.

[Box of Stardust]

7 hours ago, exbyde said:

Those squirrels have been on there for a long time. It takes a LOT to get a #2 fighter off the boards, especially now with this much refinement. Don't sell yourself short, getting a #3 spot is a pretty big accomplishment. Refine your designs, test more, and you'll go far.

A tip though, four AIM-9s may be a bit excessive. Drop to two, and you'll probably have better results, since you'll be carrying fewer into battle. I'd also mount as close to center as possible to help with roll moment.

I know the gun meta is in full force here, but you mentioned earlier that you don't know anyone here that deliberately lowers their gun range from maximum... mine is actually set to 'only' 1700m on the Viper. PEGASys-D is set even closer... which kind of ironically causes it to have trouble against the Viper.

I'm not sure if it's just in my own testing, but I personally like my own aircraft strategy that I'm cultivating. I think I can make it work.

4 Sidewinders are part of my sort of 'aircraft doctrine'. Not sure if it's a definitive winning strategy, but again, I think I can make it work. 

I just have to figure out if there's a way to influence what the AI does when it flies, like pitching up out of the way, splitting to the sides on final approach during the initial merge, those behaviors. I consider the initial merge to be the most dangerous, so the last piece of my personal puzzle that I'm trying to solve is influencing the AI to do actions that will let them survive it. 

[ZLM-Master]

Except some friendly fires , it's quite hard to compete against drone fighter ^^ but they are really efficient .

I had the same issue when tunning the craft , he could be good against some of them but that turn him bad against other , Mmmm , not easy .

And NP for DCK , i remove it , i just like it's visual enhencement .

Thx for your uploads .

Yep just my PoV , but AIM 120 seems more frendly than the Sidewinder . but i really like them in olders KSP version . a bit less in this one .

[goduranus]

After spending so much time as #2, gonna take a shot at @dundun93's #1 spot with an updated Squirrel fighter. It's optimized only against the the TFD and not any of the other planes, so it might not make it through the leaderboard. Replaces Rabid Squirrel.

https://kerbalx.com/goduranus/Vampire-Squirrel 

Edited March 3, 2018 by goduranus

[HeroBrian_333]

I have a major problem with the DCK removal. Can you try and get a new copy?

[exbyde]

7 hours ago, prgmTrouble said:

New submission: X-14 Præparet Proelium (BDA)

sweet!

2 hours ago, Box of Stardust said:

I know the gun meta is in full force here, but you mentioned earlier that you don't know anyone here that deliberately lowers their gun range from maximum... mine is actually set to 'only' 1700m on the Viper. PEGASys-D is set even closer... which kind of ironically causes it to have trouble against the Viper.

I'm not sure if it's just in my own testing, but I personally like my own aircraft strategy that I'm cultivating. I think I can make it work.

4 Sidewinders are part of my sort of 'aircraft doctrine'. Not sure if it's a definitive winning strategy, but again, I think I can make it work. 

I just have to figure out if there's a way to influence what the AI does when it flies, like pitching up out of the way, splitting to the sides on final approach during the initial merge, those behaviors. I consider the initial merge to be the most dangerous, so the last piece of my personal puzzle that I'm trying to solve is influencing the AI to do actions that will let them survive it. 

Hey, if it works for you, then keep it up.I just go by what i see, and i was saying lower weight helps, usually dogfights don't last long enough to lock and fire 4 missiles, and the DU-3 was decimating aircraft with shorter gun ranges set.

46 minutes ago, goduranus said:

After spending so much time as #2, gonna take a shot at @dundun93's #1 spot with an updated Squirrel fighter. It's optimized only against the the TFD and not any of the other planes, so it might not make it through the leaderboard. Replaces Rabid Squirrel.

https://kerbalx.com/goduranus/Vampire-Squirrel 

Oh, this will be fun

22 minutes ago, HeroBrian_333 said:

I have a major problem with the DCK removal. Can you try and get a new copy?

The problem is DCK massively degrades performance and causes frame jumps, which makes the videos look like crap, at least on my rig. Having a fighter on the board using it means any fight involving your fighter if it does rank would look just as well.. So i really can't until the next DCK comes out.

2 hours ago, ZLM-Master said:

Except some friendly fires , it's quite hard to compete against drone fighter ^^ but they are really efficient .

I had the same issue when tunning the craft , he could be good against some of them but that turn him bad against other , Mmmm , not easy .

And NP for DCK , i remove it , i just like it's visual enhencement .

Thx for your uploads .

Yep just my PoV , but AIM 120 seems more frendly than the Sidewinder . but i really like them in olders KSP version . a bit less in this one .

BDAc introduced stealth this time around, meaning the AIM-120s got a huge nerf because lock-ons at distance don't happen. If you go back and take a look, back when Herobrian was running this competition, missile spam fighters launching AIM-120s at long range were hugely advantageous, but after the update, they just didn't work well.

[Guest]

54 minutes ago, goduranus said:

After spending so much time as #2, gonna take a shot at @dundun93's #1 spot with an updated Squirrel fighter. It's optimized only against the the TFD and not any of the other planes, so it might not make it through the leaderboard. Replaces Rabid Squirrel.

https://kerbalx.com/goduranus/Vampire-Squirrel 

Ooo! Does it beat it?

[goduranus]

1 minute ago, dundun93 said:

Ooo! Does it beat it?

Sometimes, hard to say exactly. At least they are about evenly matched.

[Box of Stardust]

5 minutes ago, exbyde said:

BDAc introduced stealth this time around, meaning the AIM-120s got a huge nerf because lock-ons at distance don't happen. If you go back and take a look, back when Herobrian was running this competition, missile spam fighters launching AIM-120s at long range were hugely advantageous, but after the update, they just didn't work well.

I never entered the competition then, but I still have fighters designed for it. They're packed with like, 8--10 AMRAAMs along with 4 - 2 Sidewinders. Interesting times.

 

2 hours ago, ZLM-Master said:

Yep just my PoV , but AIM 120 seems more frendly than the Sidewinder . but i really like them in olders KSP version . a bit less in this one .

There's a tool in the SPH/VAB that shows BDA's radar cross section calculator. It shows why AMRAAMs aren't that good right now against the top fighters. Radar lock only at 4-5km on some of these, and that's without ECM reduction.

 

Just now, goduranus said:

Sometimes, hard to say exactly. At least they are about evenly matched.

The bane of fighting against the top. Now you've given me another fighter to tune against, dammit. I still can't make a tune that's good against the Du-3 and TFD and RS. Oh, and I have to beat the Viper now too. Honestly not sure the PEGASys can make it that far anymore...

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Box of Stardust said:

A tune against the TFD could totally work against it, but wouldn't even get past the Du-3.

I know exactly what you mean... my older IV-1d could beat the DN-65C(which was in 2nd place)with ease, but I didn't test against the dorrito (in 5th). I assumed it could beat it. However, it lost...

3 minutes ago, Box of Stardust said:

I still can't make a tune that's good against the Du-3 and TFD and RS. Oh, and I have to beat the Viper now too. Honestly not sure the PEGASys can make it that far anymore...

I have a Du-5R coming later today so make that 5 airplanes to beat.

Edited March 3, 2018 by Guest

[Box of Stardust]

Just now, dundun92 said:

I know exactly what you mean... my older IV-1d could beat the DN-65C(which was in 2nd place)with ease, but I didn't test against the dorrito (in 5th). I assumed it could beat it. However, it lost...

It's funny; I know exactly how to beat the TFD, and it's either counterintuitive or makes complete sense: I tune the fighter to be less maneuverable.

That's it.

It forces the fighter to go wide and gain more distance against the TFD instead of sticking to a close range dogfight. At which point, one of my fighters can properly line up a gun run against a 1v1 or a distracted TFD. Or chuck missiles at one.

Unfortunately, that's an absolutely horrible strategy against the rest of the leaderboard. Du-3, RS, and Viper are still fast enough to chase fighters that try to attack and run past.

[exbyde]

9 minutes ago, dundun92 said:

I know exactly what you mean... my older IV-1d could beat the DN-65C(which was in 2nd place)with ease, but I didn't test against the dorrito (in 5th). I assumed it could beat it. However, it lost...

There is a reason why the Dorito stuck around, and TFD is doing so well. Dorito and TFD use some very aggressive control surfaces for their size (not to mention the shuttle wing control surfaces are some of the most agressive and fastest responding in the game), and have a relatively stubby length, which gives them an advantage in pitch, which helps with bank-and-yank dogfighting.

[Box of Stardust]

8 hours ago, prgmTrouble said:

New submission: X-14 Præparet Proelium (BDA)

I really like the concept!

Unfortunately, it doesn't actually seem to select any of the weapons, so it never tries to shoot back... Also, your GAU-8s are set to engage missiles and surface, which is advised against.

I would suggest making the range of the GAU-8 not overlap with the Vulcans; that might solve the problem. 

31 minutes ago, dundun92 said:

I have a Du-5R coming later today so make that 5 airplanes to beat.

gaaaahhhhh

Edited March 3, 2018 by Box of Stardust

[prgmTrouble]

29 minutes ago, Box of Stardust said:

Unfortunately, it doesn't actually seem to select any of the weapons, so it never tries to shoot back... Also, your GAU-8s are set to engage missiles and surface, which is advised against.

I would suggest making the range of the GAU-8 not overlap with the Vulcans; that might solve the problem.

Thanks for the tip, I'll update the craft on KerbalX!

Edit: done!

Edited March 3, 2018 by prgmTrouble

[OvoFox11]

I'm going to enter my craft, the DC-3a.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, goduranus said:

Sometimes, hard to say exactly. At least they are about evenly matched.

Can it beat the rabbit?

[Guest]

9 hours ago, OvoFox11 said:

I'm going to enter my craft, the DC-3a.

Does this happen to be based on the DN-65 series of airplanes?

[Guest]

@exbyde

https://kerbalx.com/dundun92/Du-5R

[Mukita12]

Beat me

https://kerbalx.com/Mukita12/F-16-Fighting-Falcon-BDA

[Piatzin]

17 hours ago, goduranus said:

Vampire-Squirrel 

This is just going from bad to worse....

[exbyde]

18 hours ago, OvoFox11 said:

I'm going to enter my craft, the DC-3a.

9 hours ago, dundun92 said:

Does this happen to be based on the DN-65 series of airplanes?

was going to say, looks quite familiar.

 

7 hours ago, Mukita12 said:

Beat me

https://kerbalx.com/Mukita12/F-16-Fighting-Falcon-BDA

have you tested this against any current roster aircraft?

[Box of Stardust]

6 hours ago, Earthlinger said:

This is just going from bad to worse....

It's just a flight tune. 

Granted, it's one that kind of removes one of the RS's weaknesses, and it means the RS is going to be clawing its way up the board again, but it's nothing too bad. 

Also I kind of learned a few things from its TFD-focused tune and applied it accordingly, with interesting results against the TFD. Some discoveries were more useful than others.

Setting the minimum altitude to its lowest setting and launching from the KSC causes really interesting AI behavior wherein they circle around before heading towards the enemy, causing extreme variance in formation. Or crashing into the ground. Wasn't very useful to touch this setting.

Another setting... changed how the TFD responded with its weapons, which was super interesting. That was pretty useful.

22 hours ago, prgmTrouble said:

Thanks for the tip, I'll update the craft on KerbalX!

Edit: done!

So.

I tested your craft again, and it still doesn't select any weapons. I even tried setting Guard Mode off in the SPH to see if that would do anything (since it was set to On when it launches).

I'm guessing the BD AI just doesn't like having two different types of guns to choose from.

Edited March 4, 2018 by Box of Stardust

[Mukita12]

1 hour ago, exbyde said:

 

have you tested this against any current roster aircraft?

NO!!!! I WANT TO DO A GAMBLE!!!!!!!!!