Wrecking VISE HAVOC, or, Making the Venera program great again with Putin’s supervillainy

[kerbiloid]

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  On 3/4/2018 at 2:47 PM, PB666 said:

No, its a transient polar paradise only until its a run-a-way greenhouse effect. The bugs (i.e proto-archeon-types) that formed in the venutian soil were incinerated shortly thereafter during the bombardment and thereafter their hydrogen atoms were blasted into space.

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That's your nowadays thoughts.

In 1920s-1950s things looked much better.

https://translate.google.ru/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=ru&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fru.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FТихов%2C_Гавриил_Адрианович&edit-text=

Happily, all those inspiring sci-fi movies were filmed before your scepticism could appear.

 

[magnemoe]

  On 3/4/2018 at 1:43 PM, kerbiloid said:

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Distance from Sun = 0.723 AU, so it's 273 * (1/sqrt(0.723) - 1) ~=48 K warmer than the Earth.
Also as the Sun is hidden by the clouds, surface temperature a little lower. ~40°C.
Covered with clouds - so vaporization from the ocean or bogs.
So it's obvious that the Venusian surface consists of nice summer beaches and misty swamps.

Probably, this is like the Earth's late-Paleozoic/ early Mesozoic era.
With huge insects, mollusca, probably dinos.

As we all know, Mars has an irrigation system visible from the Earth. And its plains change color season-by-season (obviously, there are plants).
So, a technologically advanced civilization lives there.
But we can see no activities, and Mars looks not very healthy. So, the Martian civilization is in crysis. We must help them and study its ancient wisdom.

As the humans evolved from apes and unlikely there was another evolution aside, probably the Martians are citizens of some forgotten Earth civilization like Atlantis or Lemuria.
But they are humans, and there are nice girls on Mars.

As that forgotten civilization could colonize that small, cold Mars, definitely there should be humans on Venus as well.
But technologically degraded. But they are humans, and there are nice girls on Venus.

So. A conclusion. While Mars is inhabitated by nice aristocratic princesses of atlantian origin, Venus is inhabitated by nice tribal princesses of atlantian origin.
Anyway we should fly there.

 

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Yes, it was no reason to believe they was not habitable and the idea was hard to resist for sci-fi writers. 

Had also been an major benefit if one of them was habitable, in short the space race would not ended with the moon.
 

[PB666]

  On 3/4/2018 at 3:56 PM, magnemoe said:

Yes, it was no reason to believe they was not habitable and the idea was hard to resist for sci-fi writers. 

Had also been an major benefit if one of them was habitable, in short the space race would not ended with the moon.
 

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Indeed if rampant imagination is a resource (as per some of the discussions in this forum) there is no reason to hold back on suicide missions now. Prudence might hold otherwise, but I think prudence took off on one of those unicorns about 18 months ago. To say that there was a thought or a widely held belief gives wide liberty to what the lay might do if they had the resources to do it. Mars was once believed to have canals, and its still believed to have channels, just one required ingredient for Martian grand canyons is missing. If you go to the Sahara desert and pine about the heat, one cannot go to a point with twice the sunlight and expect it to be more pleasant, the nature of field theory was not progressed, but it was progressed enough you know that the force imparted by electricity, light, sound and gravity subside with a square of the distance. And although one might accept light as a particle in 1929, it travels as a wave and field theory would be completely applicable, even in the 1920's. If a_Earth = 149.5 x 10⁹ meters from the sun and venus is 108.3 x  10⁹ meters then it does not take Feynman and Hawkings to derive the simple math that for a body 0.728 the distance to the sun, all things being held equal, the amount of insolance would be 90% higher, and we can use the k for earth that if the temperature of earth is 288'K that the no-greenhouse effect Venus would be 50.3K higher simply due to the known radiance formula. Again all we need to do is state that 273K = 0C and humans cannot survive above 45C then 273+45 = 308K is the survival limit, and the predicted temperature is above 30.3K above that temperature. This summarily removes almost all the surface of the planet capable of also engaging in photosynthesis. Almost all of these formula were known at the turn of the 20th century. Even if you believed venus to be shielded by clouds, any meteorologist will tell you that 100% cloud coverage of a continental area would be pretty hard without dense cloud coverage, so much so that the only things that would grow would be airborne biota, and things that thrived of thermal energy chemosynthetic products (Sounds very much like the Earth after the late bombardment).

Again if you consider say the 20' north of the sun's daily progess to be the comfort limit on Earth for insolance we can see that the cos 20 = 0.94 x 1350 ~ 1269 w/m2. If you then set this as the target on venus . . . . . . . . 1269/2565 = 0.494. 0.494 = cos Θ therefore Θ = cos^-10.494 = 60.4 degrees north which would be the equivalent of the latitude between the Orkney islands and the city of Anchorage, Alaska. Again though the cloud cover at 60' relative to the sun thats about a very very dark and rainy day on Earth. This assumes no heat transfer systems like on Earth, if we include heat transfer then it more like you are on a very tall mountain at the northern pole just trying to survive. . Also On venus, tropical cyclones would be active to the polar regions, in the habital zone category 5 storms would not be uncommon having conserved momentum from the tropics, violent storms would be common . . .based on what we knew about storms at the turn of the century. Humidity would be high everywhere almost all of the time. Somewhere under nature's siege hyperlabidic women without mates would be sequestering men exospecific males. Whoopie.

By the way a large number of people believe that FTL travel is possible (despite 100 years since Einstien's first paper) and that warp drives could be a thing. Sci-fi (fantasy) continues to engage in craft that even the ancient story tellers chose not to engage in.

[Diche Bach]

  On 3/4/2018 at 1:43 PM, kerbiloid said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Distance from Sun = 0.723 AU, so it's 273 * (1/sqrt(0.723) - 1) ~=48 K warmer than the Earth.
Also as the Sun is hidden by the clouds, surface temperature a little lower. ~40°C.
Covered with clouds - so vaporization from the ocean or bogs.
So it's obvious that the Venusian surface consists of nice summer beaches and misty swamps.

Probably, this is like the Earth's late-Paleozoic/ early Mesozoic era.
With huge insects, mollusca, probably dinos.

As we all know, Mars has an irrigation system visible from the Earth. And its plains change color season-by-season (obviously, there are plants).
So, a technologically advanced civilization lives there.
But we can see no activities, and Mars looks not very healthy. So, the Martian civilization is in crysis. We must help them and study its ancient wisdom.

As the humans evolved from apes and unlikely there was another evolution aside, probably the Martians are citizens of some forgotten Earth civilization like Atlantis or Lemuria.
But they are humans, and there are nice girls on Mars.

As that forgotten civilization could colonize that small, cold Mars, definitely there should be humans on Venus as well.
But technologically degraded. But they are humans, and there are nice girls on Venus.

So. A conclusion. While Mars is inhabitated by nice aristocratic princesses of atlantian origin, Venus is inhabitated by nice tribal princesses of atlantian origin.
Anyway we should fly there.

 

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[Rakaydos]

  On 3/4/2018 at 5:09 PM, PB666 said:

By the way a large number of people believe that FTL travel is possible (despite 100 years since Einstien's first paper) and that warp drives could be a thing. Sci-fi (fantasy) continues to engage in craft that even the ancient story tellers chose not to engage in.

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Einstine's works are perfectly fine with FTL. They only say you cannot travel AT lightspeed.

[PB666]

  On 3/5/2018 at 2:24 AM, Rakaydos said:

Einstine's works are perfectly fine with FTL. They only say you cannot travel AT lightspeed.

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Yes but to travel faster than the speed of light requires a field that Einstein was unaware of (and a new kind of particle, euphemistically known as the tacheon). I believe the way quantum field theorist interpret this is that quantum space-time resolves at the speed of light, and so ligo confirms that the field propogates at the speed of light. If this is a manifestation of quantum gravity (and there is no reason to believe it is not) then this is the manifest speed limit of the universe. Its not that gravitational waves cannot travel faster than the speed of light, its that light and other mass-less fields propagate in space-time and cannot travel faster that space-time ripples propogate. I have been studying alot quantum gravity lately, there appears to be agreement among the camps that c is the limit.

[cratercracker]

You have problems with your friends and famaly?

Your neighbours annoy you?

Your kids disobey?

How about REDUCING EVERYTHING ON THE SURFACE OF EARTH TO DUST?

[DAL59]

  On 3/5/2018 at 4:31 AM, PB666 said:

Yes but to travel faster than the speed of light requires a field that Einstein was unaware of (and a new kind of particle, euphemistically known as the tacheon). I believe the way quantum field theorist interpret this is that quantum space-time resolves at the speed of light, and so ligo confirms that the field propogates at the speed of light. If this is a manifestation of quantum gravity (and there is no reason to believe it is not) then this is the manifest speed limit of the universe. Its not that gravitational waves cannot travel faster than the speed of light, its that light and other mass-less fields propagate in space-time and cannot travel faster that space-time ripples propogate. I have been studying alot quantum gravity lately, there appears to be agreement among the camps that c is the limit.

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This is pretty unrelated from nuclear ramjets on Venus...