6 hours of creating an space station

[Luc1fer]

To start shaking without control (a bug i guess) and get destroyed, this is so damn frustrating that i want to punch the freaking PC out of the window!

BTW while i was writting this i found that the ''kraken'' is not fixed after more than 2 years, what type of serious company can't fix a freaking bug in 2 years (or more)?

This is both insulting and frustrating, is a plain game-destroyer bug.

More than freaking 5 hours to make the damn station, Darn it FIX THIS!!!!!!

:mad::huh::mad::huh::mad::huh::mad::huh::mad::huh::mad::huh::mad::huh::mad::huh::mad::huh::mad::huh:

[Tyko]

Sorry that happened. Lots of people are building stations though and most don't RUD. Can you post pix of your station? maybe it's something relatively simple.

Edited May 17, 2018 by Tyko

[Luc1fer]

3 minutes ago, Tyko said:

Sorry that happened. Lots of people are building stations though and most don't RUD. Can you post pix of your station? maybe it's something relatively simple.

This is a pic of it when it was completed =(

[Tyko]

do you have one that's better lit? Maybe a screen shot from the VAB or SPH where the lighting is better?

[Luc1fer]

3 minutes ago, Tyko said:

do you have one that's better lit? Maybe a screen shot from the VAB or SPH where the lighting is better?

It's fully asembled, it has 6 or 7 parts!

But here you have better pics from every side i took before it exploded 0.o

 

[Tyko]

Were you using auto struts at all? If so, how were you using them?

Was SAS on when it broke up?

I see you have RCS thrusters all over the place at different angles. Was RCS on when the RUD occurred?

[Luc1fer]

2 minutes ago, Tyko said:

Were you using auto struts at all? If so, how were you using them?

Was SAS on when it broke up?

I see you have RCS thrusters all over the place at different angles. Was RCS on when the RUD occurred?

RCS was off (i only use it to re orientate the station)

SAS was ON

I’m using autostrunts with root on heaviest part

[Tyko]

1 minute ago, Juanlu16 said:

RCS was off (i only use it to re orientate the station)

SAS was ON

I’m using autostrunts with root on heaviest part

Hmm..did you assemble on orbit or magic the whole thing into place?

[Luc1fer]

Just now, Tyko said:

Hmm..did you assemble on orbit or magic the whole thing into place?

Asembled the damn thing piece by piece

[steuben]

Quote

I’m using autostrunts with root on heaviest part

Yeah, that might do it. Try it with grandparent instead. When you join up the modules heaviest part and root changes. The shudders are the sign the struts are changing attachment points; which causes all sorts of flexing.

 

[Luc1fer]

Just now, steuben said:

Yeah, that might do it. Try it with grandparent instead. When you join up the modules heaviest part and root changes. The shudders are the sign the struts are changing attachment points; which causes all sorts of flexing.

 

Gotta try it!

[Tyko]

Just now, Juanlu16 said:

Asembled the damn thing piece by piece

Crap...sorry...it's a great looking station.

One issue I've heard of involves autostrutting to Heaviest. every time you dock another component the autostruts have to determine which part is now the heaviest and re-adjust. this can cause serious problems.

[Pthigrivi]

I've had this happen a few times. Open a quicksave before the catastrophe and try turning SAS off. Its usually because control wheels are teacupping--reacting against each other and creating a resonance. With big stations I usually turn off SAS and then kill any momentum by tapping timewarp immediately after docking to prevent this. 

Its actually an interesting engineering problem... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Bridge,_London#Resonance

Edited May 17, 2018 by Pthigrivi

[Luc1fer]

1 minute ago, Pthigrivi said:

I've had this happen a few times. Open a quicksave before the catastrophe and try turning SAS off. Its usually because control wheels are teacupping--reacting against each other and creating a resonance.

Its actually an interesting engineering problem... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Bridge,_London#Resonance

Gotta try

[Firemetal]

Kerbal joint reinforcement.

https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/50911-13-kerbal-joint-reinforcement-v333-72417/

^Also currently outdated. Not sure if it still works, but it's worth a shot.

Fire

Edited May 18, 2018 by Firemetal

[Kerbinchaser]

That is a beautiful station. Awesome work. May I ask if you are using 1.3.1 by any chance? 

[Capt. Hunt]

I think you might have underestimated the pervasiveness of the Kraken.  It's not that they haven't done anything to fix it.  IIRC the Kraken stems from a flaw in the way Unity handles very high precision numbers, the kind of numbers that make orbital mechanics work.  They have tried remedying it with the so called Krakensbane patch, but it cannot be completely fixed.

[LordFerret]

I'm running v1.2.2; I've currently got two stations. At the moment; One station is 472 parts at around 450 tons with everything that's docked to it. The other station is 476 parts at around 284 tons. I leave (RCS and) SAS off on both them - all the time. When an inbound ship is about to dock, all lined up and drifting in, the moment the docking collar lights up (magnetics kicking in) I turn RCS and SAS off on the inbound ship just before contact. When the two (station and ship) come together, there's no shimmy or shake, no RUD.

Try it.

[Superfluous J]

17 minutes ago, LordFerret said:

I leave (RCS and) SAS off on both them - all the time.

THIS.

If SAS is on, a reaction wheel on the far side of your station will try to orient your command part, but it's so far away it causes the station to bend instead. When your pod swings from being "too far left" to "too far right" (for example, could be any direction) that same reaction wheel will start going mad the other way, causing a feedback loop that can shake a station apart.

And if you have 8 such reaction wheels, well then things go bad 8 times faster.

[Luc1fer]

4 hours ago, 5thHorseman said:

THIS.

If SAS is on, a reaction wheel on the far side of your station will try to orient your command part, but it's so far away it causes the station to bend instead. When your pod swings from being "too far left" to "too far right" (for example, could be any direction) that same reaction wheel will start going mad the other way, causing a feedback loop that can shake a station apart.

And if you have 8 such reaction wheels, well then things go bad 8 times faster.

 

7 hours ago, Capt. Hunt said:

I think you might have underestimated the pervasiveness of the Kraken.  It's not that they haven't done anything to fix it.  IIRC the Kraken stems from a flaw in the way Unity handles very high precision numbers, the kind of numbers that make orbital mechanics work.  They have tried remedying it with the so called Krakensbane patch, but it cannot be completely fixed.

 

13 hours ago, Pthigrivi said:

I've had this happen a few times. Open a quicksave before the catastrophe and try turning SAS off. Its usually because control wheels are teacupping--reacting against each other and creating a resonance. With big stations I usually turn off SAS and then kill any momentum by tapping timewarp immediately after docking to prevent this. 

Its actually an interesting engineering problem... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Bridge,_London#Resonance

 

13 hours ago, Tyko said:

Crap...sorry...it's a great looking station.

One issue I've heard of involves autostrutting to Heaviest. every time you dock another component the autostruts have to determine which part is now the heaviest and re-adjust. this can cause serious problems.

Fixed!!!!!!

Autostrunts on heaviest part were ruining the whole ship, changed to grandparent part and fixed!

8 hours ago, Lo Var Lachland said:

That is a beautiful station. Awesome work. May I ask if you are using 1.3.1 by any chance? 

Using 1.4.3 (last version) with this mods!

Stock revamp:https://github.com/VenVen/Stock-Revamp/releases

Tantares (russian rockets):https://github.com/Tantares/TantaresLV/releases     and     https://github.com/Tantares/Tantares/releases

 

Station parts files (you need to asemble it by yourself sorry):

https://www.dropbox.com/home/KSP parts

 

[Birdco_Space]

Where your "control from here" is makes a huge difference on the long term stability of a station.  My Rapid unplanned disassemblies occur when the "control from here" is located from a component far from the center of mass of the station, SAS is on, and there are reaction wheels on the station.  Same applies for large vessels assembled in orbit

My fix from a design standpoint.

Have a probe core near to the center of mass of the final station or ship, and set it to "control from here"

Auto-strut Reaction wheels to "heaviest part", or "root part", depending on which gets them closer to the "control from here" probe core.  this will help ensure the reaction wheels work together on the station, and limit how much the cause docking port joints to flex.

Limit the number of reaction wheels, and where possible, keep them close to the center of mass probe core.

 

The greatest potential danger for a disassembly occurs when a component with a  reaction wheel docks with the station.  Have the reaction wheel on that vessel auto-strutted to heaviest or root part has been generally successful for me in preventing the station from detonating on a docking event.

 

Also, use F5 a lot.

[Corona688]

Building bigger and bigger and bigger until something explodes is not a bug.  That happens in real life too.

[Luc1fer]

12 minutes ago, Corona688 said:

Building bigger and bigger and bigger until something explodes is not a bug.  That happens in real life too.

Well i doubt in real life that happens literally in 1 sec, and also spaguetti station doesn't happen

[Fraston]

yeah, auto strut to grandparent will fix. Autostrut is really buggy!

[Corona688]

30 minutes ago, Luc1fer said:

Well i doubt in real life that happens literally in 1 sec, and also spaguetti station doesn't happen

Well, there's lots of things in Russian space history they still won't own up to, so it's at least possible.