Weather thats not FAR

[theroundcow]

>tl;dr is there a wind mod that doesnt use FAR, any game version.

Think of all these sci fi movies where the ship enters a planets atmosphere experiencing low visibility, violent storms, turbulent weather etc.  I want to implement this into kerbal somehow, I think it would greatly increase the immersion in the game.  I know there are clouds that can be used with different EVE setups, and with FAR there was even a wind setting.  but I really disliked FAR, it seemed extremely unrealistic to me and just deliberately difficult.  I have my PPL, tailwheel endorsed as well, and FAR is far from anything ive ever experienced in real life.  The wind mod that utilized FAR seemed pointless because being airborne was just complete chaos at all times.  Does anyone know of any mod that can add in turbulent weather to planets?

 

Thanks everyone

[Dafni]

The closest you have at the moment (to my knowledge) are the dusts storms on Duna from SVE. It's a purely visual thing though, you still have to make the wind noises yourself and maybe rock the joystick a bit 

As far as that sci-fi feeling of entering atmospheres I have to admit that the dense cloud layers that some visual packs add to the planet of Eve do indeed give me this eerie feeling when I enter it.

[Rocket In My Pocket]

I endorse this post, as someone who also flies from time to time in real life; I find FAR pretty intolerable and unrealistic as well. Not sure why so many people like it.

I wasn't aware it had a wind setting though...if that's possible it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to rip that section of the mod out and implement it under the stock aero system I guess? Assuming you were a talented enough modder.

I think there was a very short lived weather mod waaaaay back that never really gout out of the alpha/beta stages.

[Val]

Moved from Add-on Releases, as it seems a better fit here in Add-on Discussion.

[Aeroboi]

The FAR wind plugin is usually for other purposes then realistic wind effects. It's more intended for sailing on the ocean lol.

The effects you might want are usually part of a whole weather/aerodynamic system that can only be found in flight simulators. I play flight simulators and even for them they come stock with crappy weather systems for which you would want to download (buy) a dedicated weather system. Although they should serve KSP but even the stock ones are sophisticated code to develop.

Obviously a system of that magnitude is not to be expected and a simpler version might give satisfactory atmospheric effects also but I'm merely stating it to where realism can go and where a simple plugin like FAR is stuck at and thus how far of a stretch it is to expect realism and the effects requested. But that is me saying it since my version of realism is that of a flight sim which ksp isn't to begin with.
Also, the weather systems are not dynamically generated in Flight sims AFAIK but are preset weather conditions or updated with real world satellite data.

As far as the weather systems work in flight sims you have the same weather on kerbin all year round in preset mode. We don't want that do we? In the other case,  Kerbin doesn't exist in real life and has no satellites around it so the dynamic of weather changes would be based on a algorithm based on nothing other then changing to a random weather type. It's possible, I'm not against it but how is that then realistic?

That random system certainly provides problem as it will actually affect launches. Imagine a random gust of wind at the launchpad. Normally there is weather forecasting like in rl, now you just get hit by a gust of wind making your monstrosity fail at the launchpad. Now the mod serves as a problem.

Low visibility effects like you suggest in flight would involve stratus, cumulus and cirrus clouds on a planet with a Karman line 2/3rd the way which would look strange I think on a planet 1/10th the scale compared to real life even if it does add the effect you desire. A typical troposphere for Kerbin would be a much thinner layer so low altitude visibility would likely look like a very thin band of clouds or mist.

And finally, weather systems like in flight sims are potato killers. They cripple systems when they're loaded with effects like full cloud layers, wind effects, storms and maybe even thermal differences since weather dynamics are largely changed through thermals in the atmosphere. It will not be a problem for my computer hardware but the mod must be available for a large chunk of people to make it even remotely popular and thus attractive for a programmer to write. To make it doable you have to make compromises how realistic you actually want it.

It can get done theoretically and it's a splendid idea, but above are things that come to my mind when envisioning the idea. Besides that, it's probably possible to create something more realistic then current KSP, but less realistic then a weather system of a flight sim. But the question is, what is that then? Otherwise the weather system just consists of arbitrary values.

But please continue though as I really always wanted something like this in the game.

[Aeroboi]

@theroundcow I was browsing through the mods pages and found this.

It may simulate part of what you want as for effects. I hope it is to your liking, I haven't tested it but I probably will.

[theroundcow]

Thank you everyone for your responses!  if i make any progress i will report back promptly!

[Fengist]

Once upon a time there was an attempt to make a weather mod.  It sorta got into closed alpha but I could never get my hands on it.  One of the plans was to use parts of the old Kethane mod which created, essentially, a geodesic dome over the planets. Each of the grids was going to contain specific weather data for just that grid. The brilliance there was, all neighboring grids could affect the one you're in.

As I see it, one of the huge problems with creating any sort of weather mod is the vast amount of data you have to keep up with.  Unlike say Kethane where it placed a set amount of resource per grid, a weather grid would need to constantly change and contain lots more data than one variable. And then, there's recreating weather patterns, adjusting variables that affect vessels like temperature, atmospheric pressure, wind, rain, snow and not least of all, applying all of these effects to a player's vessel.  And that doesn't even get into the particle effects you'd need to simulate all that weather.

IMHO, planetary weather is something that Squad needs to add in.  Trying to put all that in a mod would be quite an undertaking.

[Drew Kerman]

On 9/11/2018 at 8:53 PM, Fengist said:

As I see it, one of the huge problems with creating any sort of weather mod is the vast amount of data you have to keep up with.

Yea I remember that mod. I still don’t get why they wanted to try to simulate weather  in real time *inside* KSP. Nothing you do in the game can affect weather, so why even bother simulate it in the game? It would be great for a student looking for a school project or someone interested in atmospherics could build a weather model as an external program that could generate weather data to import into the game. The game doesn’t have to process anything it just needs to generate the proper conditions. Still intensive but way less than also simulating them in real time.

[Pds314]

On 9/10/2018 at 5:07 AM, Rocket In My Pocket said:

I endorse this post, as someone who also flies from time to time in real life; I find FAR pretty intolerable and unrealistic as well. Not sure why so many people like it.

I wasn't aware it had a wind setting though...if that's possible it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to rip that section of the mod out and implement it under the stock aero system I guess? Assuming you were a talented enough modder.

I think there was a very short lived weather mod waaaaay back that never really gout out of the alpha/beta stages.

FAR is unrealistic?

I mean, it's imperfect, but for example replicas with replica mass distribution and replica control systems and whatnot get replica takeoff and landing speeds, replica top speeds, replica sustained turn rates, replica stall speed and stall behavior, etc. Even wierd unconventional aircraft like an Ho-229 or whatever behave in a historically accurate way.

Now, if you don't use replicas, you can't expect replica behavior. Does your airfoil have camber? If not, it won't behave as though it did. Are you replicating a plane with manual elevator controls (A6M comes to mind)? If so, then don't be surprised when it turns ahistorically well at high speeds. Wing fences on the real thing? They're there for a reason.

Edited October 8, 2018 by Pds314