MedwedianPresident Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 https://gizmodo.com/discovery-of-goblin-solar-system-object-bolsters-the-ca-1829459509 It was reported yesterday that astronomers of the Northern Arizona University have discovered yet another dwarf planet in the outermost reaches of the Solar System. The object, dubbed “Goblin”, has an extremely eccentric orbit with a perihelion of around 65 AU, an aphelion of 2300 and a period of 40 thousand years. While the Goblin itself is too small to extert significant gravitational influence on the planets of our solar system and as such does not explain abnormal orbital pertrubances and the like, its extreme orbital parameters can be seen as a clue to a major, yet undiscovered body - Planet X or Nibiru. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Baron Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 I find that cool. It is already in here: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KerikBalm Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 Given the amount of conspiracy Bs and pseudo-science associated with the name Niburu, I think its best to avoid that term. Furthermore Planet X also has a bit of "woo" ish connotations, and also due to X having a meaning of 10 as a roman numeral (in addition to x having a meaning of unknown, as a common mathematical variable), its probably best to use the term Planet 9 (and stay out of the "Pluto is Planet 9, so another one would be Planet 10" debate). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSEP Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 Okay, so if we find planet 9, will we officially call it Nibiru? I know that name has been used in the conspiracy theory world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p1t1o Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 When was the last time someone actually named a planet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotius Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 Ugh. I can already imagine ruckus it will cause among certain circles of internet community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lajoswinkler Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 "Nibiru" is a term used by crackpots, pseudoscientists and quacks to sell books, films and other crap full of disinformation. They sell fear, anger, distrust and lies. Please don't use it on this forum. Just let it die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Baron Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 (edited) The first observer will dub it, such is the ritual ;-) The naming mess is really annoying. Planet X, in the above paper, corresponds to Planet 9, IOC (inner Oort cloud) objects to ETNOs (extreme trans neptunians). Though the Oort cloud is much farther out and they only "touch" it when near aphel. Costs time to browse over a paper and find out what is meant with what. Keeps us occupied :-) Edited October 4, 2018 by Green Baron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, KerikBalm said: its probably best to use the term Planet 9 (and stay out of the "Pluto is Planet 9 +1. Abbr. Plan.9 from the outer space. 1 hour ago, NSEP said: so if we find planet 9, will we officially call it Nibiru? Then the anunnaki will tell us her name. 1 hour ago, p1t1o said: When was the last time someone actually named a planet? They were thinking in 1930. But no, in 1846. The naming mess is really annoying. Planet X, in the above paper, corresponds to Planet 9, IOC (inner Oort cloud) objects to ETNOs (extreme trans neptunians). Though the Oort cloud is much farther out and they only "touch" it when near aphel. There should be added a new planetoid group: "smugglers". They are shuttling between IOC and TNO zones with who knows what having onboard. Sedna, this one, probably others. How did somebody of them name a god of smugglers? Edited October 4, 2018 by kerbiloid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Baron Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 (edited) Second best idea. Waiting for a phase angle, doing a transfer, aligning inclinations, ... can take a few million years if you've just missed one ... Edited October 4, 2018 by Green Baron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassel Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 2 hours ago, p1t1o said: When was the last time someone actually named a planet? Pluto? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Cassel said: Pluto? Not a planet. They have mistaken. Edited October 4, 2018 by kerbiloid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adsii1970 Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 46 minutes ago, Cassel said: Pluto? 26 minutes ago, kerbiloid said: Not a planet. They have mistaken. Seems like the Pluto debate isn't over yet. https://phys.org/news/2018-09-pluto-reclassified-planet.html https://phys.org/news/2017-03-scientists-case-pluto-planet-status.html https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2014/10/02/pluto-planet-solar-system/16578959/ It seems the third part of what constitutes a planet is up for debate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kyle Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 When I was a little kid growing up, I thought a dog on a cartoon was the last one to name a planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KerikBalm Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 52 minutes ago, kerbiloid said: Not a planet. They have mistaken. None-the-less it was considered a planet at the time of its naming, and it was thus the last time people went through the procedure for naming a planet, even if what they named isn't what we'd now consider to be a planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, KerikBalm said: None-the-less it was considered a planet at the time of its naming, and it was thus the last time people went through the procedure for naming a planet, even if what they named isn't what we'd now consider to be a planet. A false planet. Later it had been exposed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KerikBalm Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 I'm not arguing that point, I'm just saying that it was the same time people named what they believed to be a planet. A planet is a matter of definition, and based upon the accepted meaning/consensus of planet at the time, they named a planet. Based upon the current consensus, it does not meet the definition. Interpret that as you want. 29 minutes ago, adsii1970 said: Seems like the Pluto debate isn't over yet. https://phys.org/news/2018-09-pluto-reclassified-planet.html https://phys.org/news/2017-03-scientists-case-pluto-planet-status.html https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2014/10/02/pluto-planet-solar-system/16578959/ It seems the third part of what constitutes a planet is up for debate... By and large, the debate is over, there are some holdouts, but a consensus has already been reached. That first link proposes a definition that makes Pluto the 10th planet (and seems to argue for rounded moons to be planets as well), and would add perhaps a dozen planets to our solar system. Also one can do all the research they want. Definitions are arbitrary and constructed by humans. They can argue that their definition is more useful and should be used, but they very likely aren't going to change many people's minds. As long as there is a useful distinction between planets (as currently defined now) and dwarf planets, they will probably fail to gain consensus. From your second link "Pluto is a planet. So is Europa, commonly known as a moon of Jupiter, and the Earth's moon, and more than 100 other celestial bodies in our solar system that are denied this status under a prevailing definition of "planet."" Having a planet category that includes 100+ bodies is not so useful. The distinction between a planet and moon, in particular, is very useful (still waiting for cases that will require the definition of what constitutes a binary planet vs a moon). They can pout all they want, they won't gain a consensus, and they'll be doing planetary science on dwarf planets and moons of planets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Baron Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 (edited) The IAU definition is quite reasonable and accepted. Even if 200 years ago it wasn't, since 2006 it is. Until replaced by something newer, should the need arise (am thinking of other solar systems or stuff in between). The definition wasn't introduced to annoy anybody but to categorize solar system objects in a reasonable way. And, btw., a proposal that would have added Ceres, Pluto, and others was discarded. They had their chance. Here we are, with 8 planets (for now), even if some feel the urge to debate ;-) Edited October 4, 2018 by Green Baron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassel Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, kerbiloid said: Not a planet. They have mistaken. Pluto is a planet, rules that say otherwise are simply stupid. Imagine that Nibiru was found and flew by the solar system, the effect of this flight is the asteroid belt (the one behind Mars) has been torn and half of the asteroids now orbiting on path of Earth and the other half in Jupiter's path. So Earth and Jupiter would be dwarf planets? Other effects of this Nibiru flight are Mars pushed out of its orbit, now it is circling around Saturn, or Mars would be called the moon? Our moon has also changed position and is now orbiting the sun, so it would become a planet? Our solar system is millions of years old and our definitions and categories should be arranged in a way that they do not change for at least another million years. Edited October 4, 2018 by Cassel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Baron Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 Interesting config proposal. Fortunately the definition is good enough to handle these hypothetical cases: 6 minutes ago, Cassel said: ... and half of the asteroids now orbiting Earth and the other half in Jupiter's path. The first half are moons of Earth then, the second half are still asteroids or dwarf planets that, one by one, are cleared out of Jupiter's path as time goes by, flung out or in or incorporated as moons or trojans or may even become eaten up. 6 minutes ago, Cassel said: So Earth and Jupiter would be dwarf planets? Nope, they are still planets. Earth gained moons and Jupiter does his job clearing his path. I'd love to see the show in time lapse, guys ! 6 minutes ago, Cassel said: Other effects of this Nibiru flight are Mars pushed out of its orbit, now it is circling around Saturn, or Mars would be called the moon? Precisely. 6 minutes ago, Cassel said: Our moon has also changed position and is now orbiting the sun, so it would become a planet? If it orbits together with others of its kind it'll be a dwarf planet at first. If it manages to play 8 ball with them and send them elsewhere, it'll indeed become a planet. 6 minutes ago, Cassel said: Our solar system is millions of years old and our definitions and categories should be arranged in a way that they do not change for at least another million years. ~4.7 billions actually. You are right. The current definition is much closer to your requirement than the one before was. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 Spoiler Planets are planets. Asteroids are crafts. If Pluto is represented in KSP as a planet, then it's a planet. Or a moon, depending on its reference body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassel Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Green Baron said: Interesting config proposal. Fortunately the definition is good enough to handle these hypothetical cases: These definitions are total nonsense, they are relative. It's like saying that as long as you walk on foot you are a human being, but when you get on the bus you stop being a human and you start to be a passenger, so human rights do not apply to you. It is total nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canopus Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 4 minutes ago, Cassel said: These definitions are total nonsense, they are relative. It's like saying that as long as you walk on foot you are a human being, but when you get on the bus you stop being a human and you start to be a passenger, so human rights do not apply to you. It is total nonsense. If you walk you are a pedestrian, if you ride a bus you are a passenger. Both are Human. Just like both Pluto and Earth are rocky bodies but not both called planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 (edited) Is its inclination known? Edited October 4, 2018 by kerbiloid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lajoswinkler Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, adsii1970 said: Seems like the Pluto debate isn't over yet. https://phys.org/news/2018-09-pluto-reclassified-planet.html https://phys.org/news/2017-03-scientists-case-pluto-planet-status.html https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2014/10/02/pluto-planet-solar-system/16578959/ It seems the third part of what constitutes a planet is up for debate... [snip] Pluto demotion was not a surprise to anyone understanding a bit more than basics about the Solar system. It was an oddball we classified as planet because we had only one data point. As decades went by, more and more data was gathered and it was becoming obvious something doesn't add up. Even 25 years ago my professor of geography and an amateur astronomer was saying Pluto shouldn't be called a planet and that it's probably part of large family of icy building blocks we're gonna detect with better and better telescopes. Prophetic? I don't think so. Just pure reason. Edited October 4, 2018 by Snark Redacted by moderator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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