Rational Resources 3.0.2 [Sep 24, 2024]

[Kai_LSS]

First of all thank you for updating I appreciate that dearly 2nd I hope whatever your facing in your life goes through smoothly and easily thank you  I really do appreciate it I wish you the best 

[mateusviccari]

Do I need a special requirement for the RR Particle scoop / RR Particle scoop XL parts to work? When I drag them from the parts list they're already deployed, and pressing the Deploy/Retract button does nothing. Also, they don't work in flight (there's no button to start the collectors)

[JadeOfMaar]

@mateusviccari The exoscoops require Rational Resources Companion in order to have their extraction options and they only work in vacuum. They don't have animations. I meant to remove that deploy toggle but forgot that too.

[mateusviccari]

7 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

@mateusviccari The exoscoops require Rational Resources Companion in order to have their extraction options and they only work in vacuum. They don't have animations. I meant to remove that deploy toggle but forgot that too.

Ah everything is in order then. Guess I'll just have to be creative to launch the XL scoop into space

[stow]

On 5/21/2024 at 4:22 PM, JadeOfMaar said:

Updated RationalResourcesKerbalism:

• Fixed atmo scoops seeking gas form resources when liquid forms are placed.

 

Hi there, I think I might be having this same issue and am commenting now because this update didn't change things for me. I might be using the wrong kind of parts, or may have configured my mod install incorrectly, but any guidance would be much appreciated.

Issue: Atmospheric Fluid Spectro-Variometer (as modded by Kerbalism) expects CarbonDioxide when set to Harvester. Rational Resources supplies (and its material scanner indicates) the resource LqdCO2 instead.

Steps to replicate: Install Kerbalism and Rational Resources to KSP (my version is 1.12.5.3190). Start a new save in sandbox mode. Create a craft with a probe core, a RR air scanner, an Atmospheric Fluid Spectro-Variometer (configured to resource harvesting, configured to CO2), and an empty Kerbalism CO2 container just to make sure that wasn't the issue. Bring out to launch platform, view that RR Scanner indicates presence of LqdCO2 but that Kerbalism CO2 filter finds CarbonDioxide abundance to be None. Pics here.

Is this an issue with 1) Kerbalism, 2) Rational Resources, or 3) my configuration of the two?

I assume I could manually edit the part description in my craft to seek LqdCO2, but if this is the specific problem you had sought to address with your recent update, I wanted to flag this for others who may be experiencing the same issue. Thank you for providing so much enjoyment to the community

Keywords: Kerbalism, Rational Resources, CO2, abundance, abundance below threshold, KSP, Kerbal Space Program

Mods:

Spoiler

Breaking Ground (BreakingGround-DLC 1.7.1)
Classic Stock Resources (ClassicStockResources v1.2.2)
Community Resource Pack (CommunityResourcePack v112.0.1)
Harmony 2 (Harmony2 2.2.1.0)
Kerbal Actuators (KerbalActuators v1.8.5)
Kerbal Changelog (KerbalChangelog v1.4.2)
Kerbalism (Kerbalism 3.19)
Kerbalism - Default Config (Kerbalism-Config-Default 3.19)
KSP Community Fixes (KSPCommunityFixes 1.35.2)
Making History (MakingHistory-DLC 1.12.1)
Module Manager (ModuleManager 4.2.3)
Rational Resources (RationalResources 2.0.7.1)
Rational Resources Companion (RationalResourcesCompanion 2.0.7.1)
Rational Resources Kerbalism (RationalResourcesKerbalism 2.0.7.1)
Wild Blue Tools (WildBlueTools v1.90.1)
WildBlueIndustries CRP Play Mode (WildBlue-PlayMode-CRP v1.90.1)

 

[JadeOfMaar]

1 hour ago, stow said:

Atmospheric Fluid Spectro-Variometer (as modded by Kerbalism)

Thanks for reminding me. I really did not remember that this was a thing and I likely clean put that out of my mind after finishing the MISPLACED series atmo scoops in RR Parts. There's a Mk0 size among them. Try it out and let me know how things go.

[stow]

I hadn't initially installed RR Parts, but yes I now see the MISPLACED series of parts.  I now also see the ISRU/Converter parts which are meant to assist in translating between liquid and gaseous forms of materials.

By the way, before I installed RR Parts, I noticed that the XM-G50 Radial Air Intake had been altered by RR to correctly seek out liquid forms of resources in the air. However, I think there's a missing configuration option. There is one "Configure Filter" button but it filters two resources (ArgonGas and LqdDeuterium, by default). The configuration button only lets me change the first of these two options, so it's stuck permanently filtering for LqdDeuterium. Just thought you should know!

To be honest, I think I'll opt not to use the RR series of parts (my ISRU chain feels complex enough with Kerbalism for now ) so I might try to just use the RR configs and manually substitute CarbonDioxide and Oxygen where LqdCO2 and LqdOxygen are mentioned. At least, it seems reasonable that an air filter on Duna would just be collecting CO2 in a gaseous form to store in tanks, and feels a bit strange to have to bring a part to heat the liquid CO2 (though how actual air filtration would work on Mars is above my pay grade).

I'll tinker with it and post it here and on the Kerbalism thread when I work something out.

 

[stow]

On 5/30/2019 at 12:04 PM, JadeOfMaar said:

• Surface and Atmosphere
  Ammonia, CarbonDioxide, ExoticMinerals, Gypsum, LqdHe3, Hydrates, Hydrogen, MetalOre, MetallicOre, Methane, Minerals, Nitrogen, Ore, Oxygen, RareMetals, Rock, Silicates, Substrate, Uraninite, Water.
• Ocean
  Carbon, ExoticMinerals, Gypsum, LqdAmmonia, LqdCO2, LqdMethane, LqdNitrogen, LqdOxygen, MetalOre, MetallicOre, Minerals, RareMetals, Rock, Water.

Is my understanding correct that you initially set out to have CarbonDioxide present in the atmosphere and LqdCO2 present only in bodies of water? The current wording of the intro post of this thread seems to indicate that. If that's changed, I wanted to flag this for you.

[JadeOfMaar]

4 hours ago, stow said:

The current wording of the intro post of this thread

At some point recently I had decided to only have liquid resources present so the player has less to think hard about for their harvesting. I did not think to update those tables and the thread.

[steddyj]

So I've been tracing this issue I've been seeing through most of this morning and it's lead me right here.    I believe I'm seeing more issues with RR and SystemHeat, this time in the Nuclear Family.  The below log segment is from my test install that only has BluedogDB and its dependencies (which include SystemHeat) and RR with RR Nuclear Family.  It accompanies the same B9 popup error on load that others have posted.

[LOG 13:34:00.614] PartLoader: Compiling Part 'Bluedog_DB/Parts/Engines/bluedog_NERVA_II/bluedog_NERVA_II'
[WRN 13:34:00.616] PartLoader Warning: Variable RRNF not found in Part
[LOG 13:34:00.625] PartLoader: Part 'Bluedog_DB/Parts/Engines/bluedog_NERVA_II/bluedog_NERVA_II' has no database record. Creating.
[LOG 13:34:00.625] [DragCubeSystem]: Drag cubes not found or cannot be read for part Part. Generating New drag cubes.
[LOG 13:34:00.629] DragCubeSystem: Creating drag cubes for part 'bluedog.NERVA.II'
[WRN 13:34:00.646] Warning on PartSubtype NERVA_II_80 on module ModuleB9PartSwitch (moduleID='engineSwitch') on part bluedog.NERVA.II: Could not find matching module
[EXC 13:34:00.652] Exception: Could not find matching module
	B9PartSwitch.ModuleMatcher.FindModule (Part part) (at <a3c2951fc74e4639820ef37d2d29f386>:0)
	B9PartSwitch.ModuleModifierInfo+<CreatePartModifiers>d__10.MoveNext () (at <a3c2951fc74e4639820ef37d2d29f386>:0)
	B9PartSwitch.PartSubtype.Setup (B9PartSwitch.ModuleB9PartSwitch parent, System.Boolean displayWarnings) (at <a3c2951fc74e4639820ef37d2d29f386>:0)
	UnityEngine.DebugLogHandler:LogException(Exception, Object)
	ModuleManager.UnityLogHandle.InterceptLogHandler:LogException(Exception, Object)
	UnityEngine.Debug:LogException(Exception)
	B9PartSwitch.PartSubtype:Setup(ModuleB9PartSwitch, Boolean)
	B9PartSwitch.ModuleB9PartSwitch:InitializeSubtypes(Boolean)
	B9PartSwitch.ModuleB9PartSwitch:GetInfo()
	PartLoader:CompilePartInfo(AvailablePart, Part)
	<CompileParts>d__56:MoveNext()
	UnityEngine.SetupCoroutine:InvokeMoveNext(IEnumerator, IntPtr)
[WRN 13:34:00.659] DontDestroyOnLoad only works for root GameObjects or components on root GameObjects.
[LOG 13:34:00.666] PartLoader: Compiling Part 'Bluedog_DB/Parts/Engines/bluedog_NERVA_II/bluedog_NERVA_II-rr'
[WRN 13:34:00.669] PartLoader Warning: Variable RRNF not found in Part
[LOG 13:34:00.677] PartLoader: Part 'Bluedog_DB/Parts/Engines/bluedog_NERVA_II/bluedog_NERVA_II-rr' has no database record. Creating.
[LOG 13:34:00.677] [DragCubeSystem]: Drag cubes not found or cannot be read for part Part. Generating New drag cubes.
[LOG 13:34:00.681] DragCubeSystem: Creating drag cubes for part 'bluedog.NERVA.II-rr'
[WRN 13:34:00.701] Warning on PartSubtype NERVA_II_80 on module ModuleB9PartSwitch (moduleID='engineSwitch') on part bluedog.NERVA.II-rr: Could not find matching module
[EXC 13:34:00.701] Exception: Could not find matching module
	B9PartSwitch.ModuleMatcher.FindModule (Part part) (at <a3c2951fc74e4639820ef37d2d29f386>:0)
	B9PartSwitch.ModuleModifierInfo+<CreatePartModifiers>d__10.MoveNext () (at <a3c2951fc74e4639820ef37d2d29f386>:0)
	B9PartSwitch.PartSubtype.Setup (B9PartSwitch.ModuleB9PartSwitch parent, System.Boolean displayWarnings) (at <a3c2951fc74e4639820ef37d2d29f386>:0)
	UnityEngine.DebugLogHandler:LogException(Exception, Object)
	ModuleManager.UnityLogHandle.InterceptLogHandler:LogException(Exception, Object)
	UnityEngine.Debug:LogException(Exception)
	B9PartSwitch.PartSubtype:Setup(ModuleB9PartSwitch, Boolean)
	B9PartSwitch.ModuleB9PartSwitch:InitializeSubtypes(Boolean)
	B9PartSwitch.ModuleB9PartSwitch:GetInfo()
	PartLoader:CompilePartInfo(AvailablePart, Part)
	<CompileParts>d__56:MoveNext()
	UnityEngine.SetupCoroutine:InvokeMoveNext(IEnumerator, IntPtr)

I would post the popup but I can't seem to insert an imgur link for some reason.   Worthwhile of note is that these are the only two errors that I'm getting with BDB and RR (Nuclear Family), but in my Live game I get a long list of errors with what I now realize is many different mod packages and I had assumed everything was from Bluedog since that's such a big package.  They seem to be mostly on the duplicate -rr items that get made for the reducing agent engines.  

I can provide the full log file from my live game if you want, but its heavily modded so it's a pretty extensive file.  Whatever's going on here I think you need to be able to address it procedurally rather than addressing individual modpacks. 

[JadeOfMaar]

@steddyj I must assume you have RealFuels-Stock or whatever RealFuels-related mod that affects Bluedog's NTRs. Such mods rename the engine module from ModuleEnginesFX to ModuleEnginesRF and this breaks RR Nuclear Family.

[steddyj]

@JadeOfMaar Yeah, I'm expecting it to be something like that.  Which is why I'm testing with BlueDog, because both it and RR explicitly mentioned support for each other in their forum posts.  At least I thought they both did, but looking now your post only mentions them for Hypergolics and they don't seem to mention you at all so I think I was more relying on a third mod that recommended running them together.  

RealFuels is not the issue in this case, it's not in either install.  I've also searched through both installs and there is no reference to ModuleEnginesRF at all in my test build.  My live build has it referenced in StageRecovery's DLL and a compatibility patch in Planetary Bases.  Here's what's in the testbench.  My cache was cleared and this was installed today with the latest CKAN has to offer (which may be out of date, which is what brings me here):

Yet I still get these errors, only when I have RRNF in the mix.  

Which looked a lot like what you pointed to as issues with SystemHeat earlier.  Especially when you look at the run from my live game which is tripping mostly on the Reducing Agent engine duplicates that RR makes, but not apparently the originals.  I think I DID have problems on the originals before, because I was seeing the original followed immediately by the -rr earlier in my investigation, perhaps before I had 2.0.7.1 installed.  I'm definitely still getting the errors below:

[JadeOfMaar]

@steddyj Share your MM cache. It should be plain as day in there what the mismatch is.

[steddyj]

@JadeOfMaar Can you be more specific as to what I'm looking for in the MM cache, since it will be so obvious?  As stated above my cache was cleared before building the test environment which throws the first two errors.  I haven't done a full reinstall on the live game yet but even if I do it still doesn't resolve that pair of issues on the Nerva II that only arises when I have Nuclear Family installed.  

 

edit:  I circled back to this when I realized you said MM, I repeated MM, and yet my brain was still thinking CKAN.  Now I'm following you more clearly but I'm even less clear what we're looking at.  

Edited June 30 by steddyj

[Grenartia]

I said this the other day in the Cryo Engines thread, and then found out it would be more applicable here. I'd like to suggest a QoL feature for the fuel switcher to default to the fuel intended for the tank (i.e., stock tanks keep LF/O as default, cryotanks keep LH2 or methane, etc.). Its just a real PITA to build a plane in early career, and try to fly it, only to realize that the LF tank got defaulted to 'structural' and does not, in fact, contain any of the thing it was meant to contain. 

[steddyj]

@JadeOfMaar I've finally had the chance to circle back to this. The issue isn't that something has renamed ModuleEnginesFX, and it looks like you addressed that anyway since your patch looks for ModuleEngines*.  Here's the MM cache from the failing part:

UrlConfig
{
	parentUrl = Bluedog_DB/Parts/Engines/bluedog_NERVA_II.cfg
	PART
	{
		name = bluedog_NERVA_II
		module = Part
		author = Zorg
		rescaleFactor = 1
		node_stack_top = 0.0, 3.57987, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 2
		node_stack_bottom = 0.0, -3.69958, 0.0, 0.0, -1.0, 0.0, 2
		TechRequired = nuclearPropulsion
		entryCost = 45000
		cost = 15000
		category = Propulsion
		subcategory = 0
		title = LVN-2 "Redwood" Nuclear Engine [R]
		manufacturer = Bluedog Design Bureau
		description = Built around an incredibly powerful reactor, this nuclear engine emphasises thrust to enable demanding crewed interplanetary missions. <br><#fc5a50>RR Reducing Agent NTR.</color>\n<#00CE03>B9PartSwitch - This part has selectabale engine configs via the part action window. Some configs may be unlocked via upgrades.</color>
		attachRules = 1,0,1,1,1
		mass = 3.5
		dragModelType = default
		maximum_drag = 0.2
		minimum_drag = 0.2
		angularDrag = 2
		crashTolerance = 18
		breakingForce = 300
		breakingTorque = 300
		maxTemp = 2500
		bulkheadProfiles = size1p2
		stagingIcon = LIQUID_ENGINE
		stageOffset = 1
		childStageOffset = 1
		tags = nuclear nuke STNP NTR thermal LH2 Cryo NERV NERVA II 2 Phoebus cck-rr
		RRNF = Joined
		skinMassPerArea = 1
		emissiveConstant = 0.8
		heatConductivity = 0.03
		skinInternalConductionMult = 4
		MODEL
		{
			model = Bluedog_DB/Parts/Engines/bluedog_NERVA_II
		}
		MODULE
		{
			name = ModuleEnginesFX
			thrustVectorTransformName = thrustTransform
			exhaustDamage = True
			ignitionThreshold = 0.1
			minThrust = 0
			maxThrust = 222.2
			powerEffectName = running_engine
			engineID = LH2
			heatProduction = 1425.02143422222
			exhaustDamageMultiplier = 4040.3398
			partThermalMass = 70
			exhaustDamageMaxRange = 14.9063744753713
			exhaustDamageFalloffPower = 2
			exhaustDamageMaxMutliplier = 0.125
			PROPELLANT
			{
				name = LqdHydrogen
				ratio = 1
				DrawGauge = True
				resourceFlowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
			}
			atmosphereCurve
			{
				key = 0 824
				key = 1 49.44
				key = 12 0.001
			}
		}
		MODULE
		{
			name = ModuleB9PartSwitch
			switcherDescription = Engine Config
			switcherDescriptionPlural = Engine Configs
			moduleID = engineSwitch
			uiGroupName = partSwitch
			uiGroupDisplayName = Part Switch
			SUBTYPE
			{
				name = NERVA_II_70
				title = NERVA II - 1970s
				descriptionDetail = <b>Thrust:</b> 13 kN ASL / 222.2 kN Vac.\n<b>Isp:</b> 50 s ASL / 825 s Vac.
			}
			SUBTYPE
			{
				name = NERVA_II_80
				title = NERVA II - 1980s
				descriptionSummary = A 25% improvement to reactor output results in significant thrust and Isp uplift.
				descriptionDetail = <b>Thrust:</b> 17 kN ASL / 278 kN Vac.\n<b>Isp:</b> 52 s ASL / 850 s Vac.
				MODULE
				{
					IDENTIFIER
					{
						name = ModuleEnginesFX
						engineID = NERVA_II
					}
					DATA
					{
						maxThrust = 278
						atmosphereCurve
						{
							key = 0 850
							key = 1 250
							key = 12 0.001
						}
					}
				}
			}
		}
		MODULE
		{
	
            ...

[There is more but I think everything relevant is above]

This engine has an upgraded variant with B9PartSwitch.  The error is because it can't find its unique engineID which was defined in the parent part before RRNF overwrite the module.  it looks like RRNF doesn't have any way to catch an engine variant when it's rewriting ModuleEnginesFX.  I'm not sure how commonly this might happen, perhaps without warning because another engine might be using a standard fuel type.  I did modify the type to LH2 which resolved one of the two errors, but it still chokes on the cloned Oxidizing engine because it's expecting LqdCO2.  I'm not sure how to address this other than to nuke out the upgrade option altogether, or to split it into its own part.

 

[JadeOfMaar]

@steddyj Ah. Actually the situation is that RRNF breaks BDB's prior existing B9 config that adds features to the engine. The most sensible answer to this would be for RRNF to no longer affect these engines but also you could create a patch to erase the stat upgrades and let the mesh switching remain. Mesh switching alone doesn't care about engine ID but you lose the gameplay value of choosing between a spike nozzle or bell nozzle on that other BDB engine.

I just looked and I can see that at least some (among the bunch of NTRs) have mesh switching tied to their stat upgrades. Carelessly disabling those to prefer RRNF would lead to all mesh options showing and Z-fighting and the parts being treated as broken. RRNF only affects BDB because users of BDB want it (or that the dev of Skyhawk Science wanted it) but I'm not a BDB user so I did not anticipate this conflict. I only accepted the config edit/suggestion from someone who asked but did not know B9's limitations.

To de-list or opt out the engines that need to, get their part names and remove them from GameData/RationalResourcesNuclearFamily/00_Opt-in_NuclearFamily.cfg (line 25 of this config on GitHub) and show me the change/edit so I can accept it and publish.

[Charle_Roger]

Been playing around with RR stuff for a while in preparation for my own ISRU overhaul mod, and I've been having a great time with it, but I feel like it's missing good organic chemistry.

You suggest using LqdCO2 and Carbon for the manufacture of liquid fuel, but no actual chemistry could feasibly manage that. Instead, it would be nice to have CRP Organics on some planets (think simple alkanes, alkenes and aromatics which are present on Mars) to act as an entry point for all manner of organic chemistry, including producing LF but also things like Polymers and just more production pathways for everything else. I do agree that hydrolox and methalox should be encouraged as more common and robust ISRU systems though, Organics should only be available in certain places.

Just a thought, if you don't feel like including Organics natively then my current thinking is a way of extracting it from Mulch, or maybe I'll try and make some RR templates of my own 

[JadeOfMaar]

@Charle_Roger Howdy. I've seen your thread and I rather like what's going on there. Honestly, I'm in a tough position. I feel somewhat forced to keep an LFO production chain as legacy given most players might not be included to install CryoEngines and put up with the trouble of Hydrogen storage. I'm aware that it really shouldn't be easy to come by outside of a planet that has Crude Oil, which requires life and isn't something that can be synethesized or isn't worth the effort to try. As an attempt to make LF/Kerosene production less attractive I've made Hydrogen and Methane production to be much faster. As I see things now, I can assume Ore represents Crude Oil or natural Organics. LiquidFuel can be extracted quickly but the player will have to build up a huge supply of this beforehand, and there would need to be large parts to make this idea attractive. (But now... the Oxygen content in Ore -> LFO makes no sense.)

According to the MKS wiki, Organics is a manufactured resource which simply requires Water + Substrate. RR places Substrate and lots of Hydrates which contains Water. All of my planetary surface templates provide some amount of Substrate (for lack of knowledge of any specific nature it's implied to have) so perhaps you or someone else could run away with that. I'm not an MKS player and not currently interested in the WOLF-ish resources like Polymers and Machinery.

You're welcome to produce your own RR templates which are totally separate or add onto existing. For example, there are standalone templates for Graviolium, by which a given planet or moon can explicitly be given a "light" amount or a "heavy" amount. To add onto or change the existing templates before they're unpacked and applied to all planets you have the option of doing :BEFORE[RationalResources] like this example:

// I want all Rock-Mineral type planets to have naturally occuring Organics
PLANETARY_RESOURCE:NEEDS[CommunityResourcePack,!ClassicStock]:BEFORE[RationalResources]
{
	ResourceName = Organics
	ResourceType = 0
	PlanetName = None
	Tag = SrfRockMineral
	Distribution
	{
		PresenceChance = 80
		MinAbundance = 3
		MaxAbundance = 7
		Variance = 50
		Dispersal = 3
	}
}

 

You may find this part mod very interesting. Within its concept (exotic greenhouses) and among its parts are bioreactors which employ Algae and Photoculture (resources) to produce propellants. They could be just the thing to facilitate your organic chemistry pathway(s).

 

Edited July 10 by JadeOfMaar

[Charle_Roger]

@JadeOfMaar Thanks for the reply.

Your situation is very much understandable, Ore as a legacy stand-in for whatever stuff is required to make LF makes perfect sense. As for crude oil, I was reminded that the Soviets were synthesising a hydrocarbon rocket fuel with similar properties to RP-1 (actually slightly better on almost all metrics) from simpler species so I think LF production on any planet with simple Organics is actually just about feasible, but will still be slow and energy costly.

I have been thinking about Substrate and its possible position on the life support side, but its universality is an issue. MKS (as I understand it) treats it as soil with enough whatever in it to grow plants in, so shouldn't really be found in most places. I would restrict Organics primarily to Eve, Duna and Laythe, maybe Minmus and Pol just for fun as minerally exotic bodies. Besides that "Substrate" is just a slightly meaningless word where "Organics" is just the right level of generic while invoking particular bits of chemistry. I'm not an MKS player either and I don't intend to follow its resource chains particularly closely, I was only thinking about Polymers as a possible extra hurdle in manufacturing RocketParts, which should be the hardest resource to acquire.

Thanks for the pointers on RR templates, should be pretty straightforward to get the Organics distribution I'm after. Is it possible to remove or hide redundant resources (e.g. MetalOre vs. MetallicOre) so that they can't be scanned for or acquired unless reactivated by another patch or something? Since I would really like to base my project on RR, that would really help give it a coherent feel rather than just layers of mods.

Moldavite Machines looks interesting, but not quite what I want. Ideally I want to use only CRP resources, though it's very possible that MM might complement the system I eventually end up with.

[JadeOfMaar]

@Charle_Roger Substrate's total vagueness (literally: Any medium where a living thing can grow on the face of it) indeed has always bothered me. I do like the idea of cutting down that universal presence but it'll require some guess work (make the most fitting templates have whatever amount of it) and some manual work (someone has to decide and write configs for what planets in every planet pack are more life-bearing than others). I only left it alone because it's an "MKS legacy" thing, which I define as "MKS assumes every planet has every resource, and the gameplay paradigm that results from it." Making this change (reducing Substrate and placing mineable Organics) will put probably another pot hole in the road for MKS + RR players but, well, they knew what they signed up for.

Here are a few things to do concerning deleting from templates:

// All instances, within or without a template
!PLANETARY_RESOURCE:HAS[#ResourceName[Metal]]:BEFORE[RationalResources] {}
!PLANETARY_RESOURCE:HAS[#ResourceName[MetalOre]]:BEFORE[RationalResources] {}

// Instances in a certain template
!PLANETARY_RESOURCE:HAS[#ResourceName[Metal],#Tag[SrfRockIce]]:BEFORE[RationalResources] {}
!PLANETARY_RESOURCE:HAS[#ResourceName[MetalOre],#Tag[SrfRockIce]]:BEFORE[RationalResources] {}

// Global (rather, universal). Affects whether it appears in SCANsat
!GLOBAL_RESOURCE:HAS[#ResourceName[Metal]]:BEFORE[RationalResources] {}
!GLOBAL_RESOURCE:HAS[#ResourceName[MetalOre]]:BEFORE[RationalResources] {}

Be mindful that EL-compatible mods will break because they depend on EL's Metal and MetalOre. You may want to try out and then recommend or possibly require RR EL Utilities which tries to make them use Metals and MetallicOre instead.

[Charle_Roger]

@JadeOfMaar Thanks again for the tips.

Since my project is not meant to be compatible with MKS, and actually is more like a direct alternative, I'm happy to do away with Substrate and put Organics where I think it belongs (probably just attached to an existing RR template).

I have already been using RR EL Utilities and do indeed plan to have that be a requirement for part of it, since I want it to be modular, so you'll only need it if you opt in to the EL stuff. I might end up with a bit of a mess of dependencies and compatibilities though, since I think RR Companion will be incompatible just by virtue of providing too much functionality and messing with the intended balance.

[Charle_Roger]

Well I've tried writing some RR patches and found no success, even the examples you provided me appear to do nothing. I have working patches in the same directory targeting other mods, so I'm not sure what the problem could be. (using RR and RR EL Utilities only)

[JadeOfMaar]

1 hour ago, Charle_Roger said:

Well I've tried writing some RR patches and found no success, even the examples you provided me appear to do nothing.

Odd. Maybe there's some minor syntax issue I didn't think of. I'll test my examples and get back to you. I have other things to test and deliver in a coming update.

Semi-related: I'm looking for real analogues for Minerals and ExoticMinerals so I can add or update splitter recipes for them. Upon choosing some tempoerary ones it began to occur to me that other resources quickly become redundant and needless. Minerals can easily tend to be a few rare or semi-rare metals bound to a heap of common metals (Aluminium and/or Silicon) and a heap of Oxygen or Water. Metal(s) largely represents refined Iron but I can equate it to the mineral Smaltite (Co,Fe,Ni)As₂ which contains two other very popular metals used in construction of things. (idk about Arsenic. Hah.) In EL Utilities' SandCastle recipe, the resource input is changed from Ore to Minerals + Metals but nearly anything that is mined is a mineral and most of the periodic table is metals so I have to rethink that formula, and others. I find myself getting further in among the modmakers who would like to see the CRP slimmed down.

[Charle_Roger]

Funnily enough I just reached a similar conclusion today and decided not to use Minerals as the basic level resource for my system since I was basically just using it almost as generically as stock Ore. Instead, I think I will aim for a system with two rough tech levels of ISRU:

Level 1

• Restricted stock Ore which can be converted at low efficiency and high energy cost into:
  • Basic minerals (Silicates, Spodumene and MetallicOre probably)
  • Fertilizer
  • Trace amounts of Water
• Simple chemical conversions like water electrolysis and Sabatier process
• SpaceDust atmospheric gas acquisition

Level 2

• Targeted mining of specific resources at much higher efficiency, using RR distributions:
  • Same minerals as above plus Uraninite and ExoticMinerals/RareMetals
  • Water, LqdCO2, LqdAmmonia (maybe others? Organics?)
• More complex chemical conversions allowing the production of things like LqdAmmonia and LiquidFuel
• FarFutureTechnologies trace gas regolith scrubbing and exospheric gas acquisition

I don't want to overload it with primitive resources that all have one particular role, so I'm keeping it relatively straightforward and skipping most single-use intermediates, e.g. no Hydrates in Ore -> Water, no Gypsum in Ore -> Fertilizer and mining liquids directly rather than converting from gases. Spodumene is already oddly specific for my liking, but I suppose Lithium has to come from somewhere, and it seems a shame not to use it when RR supports it already. My personal view is that RR has enough particular minerals already and it should be possible to just factor out the generic Minerals completely without adding anything new.