New part: Friction pads for walking robots and vehicles.

[Klapaucius]

UPDATE: Squad has delivered!  See the thread:

 

 

With all the new walkers arriving on the scene, I think the DLC needs one extra part: a friction pad.

This would be a small square piece similar in size to one of the smaller structural panels. It would have a slightly higher impact resistance than the joint parts and it would have a friction control setting so that objects pushing off the ground do not skid the way they currently do.  In short, it would be a Kerbal part that does the same thing as the sole and tread on your shoes.

Trying to re-purpose rolling landing gear (with the brakes on and friction control set to 100%) to do this job has not been very successful.

Edited June 25, 2019 by Klapaucius

[Guest]

Seconded, this would be fantastic. It would also make it much easier to make landing struts from scratch. I would (also?) like them circular for this purpose, 0.625 and 1.25 m cross sections.

Edited June 14, 2019 by Guest

[Xurkitree]

Actually the skids are a problem with the ground itself.If only the Ground weren't ice...

[Shadowmage]

7 hours ago, Xurkitree said:

Actually the skids are a problem with the ground itself.If only the Ground weren't ice...

Technically, the friction in Unity engine is a combination of the friction settings for both of the colliding objects.

Only half of the objects in KSP don't implement physics materials, and IIRC, the terrain is inconsistently setup as well.  Some has lots of friction, some none.

 

This wouldn't even be a simple part to make -- you need to not only have high friction on the part itself, but you need to adjust the friction of every material that part will come in contact with, and then reset those other materials when the part is no longer in contact.  Massive, major, PITA, that will likely only cause more bugs than it resolves.

Note:  I've played with physics material friction settings extensively while creating and debugging KSPWheel.  While the concept is sound (increase friction to decrease walker legs from sliding), the implementation ability from within Unity is handicapped by the two-sided nature of the problem, and that KSP never set the properties up properly in the first place for 99% of in-game assets.

[Klapaucius]

2 hours ago, Shadowmage said:

Technically, the friction in Unity engine is a combination of the friction settings for both of the colliding objects.

Only half of the objects in KSP don't implement physics materials, and IIRC, the terrain is inconsistently setup as well.  Some has lots of friction, some none.

 

This wouldn't even be a simple part to make -- you need to not only have high friction on the part itself, but you need to adjust the friction of every material that part will come in contact with, and then reset those other materials when the part is no longer in contact.  Massive, major, PITA, that will likely only cause more bugs than it resolves.

Note:  I've played with physics material friction settings extensively while creating and debugging KSPWheel.  While the concept is sound (increase friction to decrease walker legs from sliding), the implementation ability from within Unity is handicapped by the two-sided nature of the problem, and that KSP never set the properties up properly in the first place for 99% of in-game assets.

Then how do they do it with wheels?  It would be exactly the same as a wheel except it does not look like a wheel and does not rotate (which I assume is simply an animation on top of a sliding part?) or retract.

 

Currently, I can use landing gear wheels on my rover to practically glue it to the side of a very steep cliff.  If it starts sliding, I just adjust the friction control on the fly.

[Shadowmage]

18 minutes ago, Klapaucius said:

Then how do they do it with wheels?

Wheels use a special PhysX object, called a 'Wheel Collider' that calculates friction differently than standard collisions.

19 minutes ago, Klapaucius said:

(which I assume is simply an animation on top of a sliding part?)

This is very incorrect.

https://docs.nvidia.com/gameworks/content/gameworkslibrary/physx/guide/Manual/Vehicles.html

[Klapaucius]

18 hours ago, Shadowmage said:

Wheels use a special PhysX object, called a 'Wheel Collider' that calculates friction differently than standard collisions.

This is very incorrect.

https://docs.nvidia.com/gameworks/content/gameworkslibrary/physx/guide/Manual/Vehicles.html

Thanks for the clarification. 

 

It still seems to me this part could be made using those exact wheel models you were talking about.  Using that diagram you have just posted the link to, you create a part using all the same parameters as the current landing gear but you substitute a flat panel or a tire. shorten the spring length considerably and model it as a compressible block and keep the "brakes" on all the time.

Edited June 15, 2019 by Klapaucius

[klgraham1013]

20 hours ago, Shadowmage said:

...and that KSP never set the properties up properly in the first place for 99% of in-game assets.

Man.  I really hope that whoever makes KSP2 learns all these lessons.  There seems to be a lot of them.

[Klapaucius]

Ask and ye shall receive!

 

Thanks Squad!

[Dundrogen]

On 6/15/2019 at 3:58 AM, Shadowmage said:

This wouldn't even be a simple part to make -- you need to not only have high friction on the part itself, but you need to adjust the friction of every material that part will come in contact with, and then reset those other materials when the part is no longer in contact.  Massive, major, PITA, that will likely only cause more bugs than it resolves

I really do hope that squad can work this out though. The grip pads would be an absolute gem.