tater Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 58 minutes ago, Space Nerd said: Am I the only one who thinks SLS looks better than starship? I think Block 1, and any SLS with Orion on top is pretty ugly. Full diameter cargo SLS? Nice looking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barzon Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 mmmm myes sleek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Nerd Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 (edited) I think SLS crew looks better than cargo because of the LES and Orion on top though. Edited July 8, 2020 by Space Nerd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirkidirk Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Space Nerd said: Am I the only one who thinks SLS looks better than starship? (Seriously, I like SLS mostly because of it's look and the kerbal factor.) well yeah, it do be lookin fresh. fresher than starship tho? 12 minutes ago, RealKerbal3x said: IMO, Starship is better both visually and functionally. It's literally a 1950s sci-fi rocket come true but at the same time that's like saying that a tesla model X looks better than a Fiat 124 Spider, I think... 7 minutes ago, Space Nerd said: To me, the look of starship will need some time to get used to, because it's so "new" same. Edited July 8, 2020 by Dirkidirk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 (edited) The 10m fairing I like the look of less than flush. I'm still in the camp that says Orion should move to NG as soon as NG is a thing, and they should exclusively use SLS for cargo (which means they could evolve whatever they like with no concern for crew rating it). (yes, this means distributed EOR for missions). Edited July 8, 2020 by tater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirkidirk Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 5 minutes ago, tater said: I think Block 1, and any SLS with Orion on top is pretty ugly. Full diameter cargo SLS? Nice looking. too bad we probably won't ever see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealKerbal3x Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 Just now, tater said: (which means they could evolve whatever they like with no concern for crew rating it). I'd be totally down for SLS Heavy. Three core stages strapped together? Hell yeah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barzon Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, Dirkidirk said: but at the same time that's like saying that a tesla model X looks better than a Fiat 124 Spider. It's more like saying a cruise ship looks better than a cargo ship. I personally prefer the look of cargo ships . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Nerd Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 4 minutes ago, Dirkidirk said: too bad we probably won't ever see it. We can always be optimistic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barzon Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 5 minutes ago, tater said: I'm still in the camp that says Orion should move to NG as soon as NG is a thing NG expendable? Because I think it only has like 13t to TLI reused. 5 minutes ago, Dirkidirk said: too bad we probably won't ever see it. From what I've heard, the Dynetics HLS is very likely to launch on SLS if they get chosen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirkidirk Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Space Nerd said: We can always be optimistic! maybe future martian god, Elongated Muskrat, would one day recreate a launch, just for fun. 6 minutes ago, Barzon said: NG expendable? Because I think it only has like 13t to TLI reused. From what I've heard, the Dynetics HLS is very likely to launch on SLS if they get chosen. or that. Edited July 8, 2020 by Dirkidirk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealKerbal3x Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, Barzon said: From what I've heard, the Dynetics HLS is very likely to launch on SLS if they get chosen. That all depends on whether EUS will be ready to go in 2024. I'm more inclined to think that Dynetics will launch on Vulcan. I don't think the 2024 goal is really realistic either, but that's another story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 1 minute ago, Barzon said: NG expendable? Because I think it only has like 13t to TLI reused. EOR reused. It has 45t to LEO. If needed/desirable, launch to a higher Earth orbit to rendezvous with SLS cargo there. Dock to spacecraft/cargo, EUS takes them the rest of the way. Course SLS still doesn't have enough capability for that to be terribly useful. Extra mass on NG would give Orion the comanifest, easily, but not sure what the SLS stack could do with it. I guess they could send SLS "naked" or nearly so. Wonder what the penalty for the LES is on total mass to LEO. Expendable is interesting. Should bump the payload by 18% if it matches F9. 15.85t to TLI, or 54.9 to LEO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barzon Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 1 minute ago, tater said: Wonder what the penalty for the LES is on total mass to LEO. I might be able to get an answer for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Nerd Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 While I'm not against doing moon mission with multiple launches of current commercial rockets, I just want to see SLS fly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 (edited) Looks like a naked EUS (EUS+ docking ring) launched as the only cargo could throw ~50t to TLI. Orion is 26-27, right? That leaves 23-24 for comanifested, which NG could probably do. Not really enough, frankly. That said, you could send either part of a lander, or a light "orbital module" for crew comfort, plus a stage to do LOI in LLO. Orion can get home from LLO if something else does the LOI burn. Lander sent ahead to LLO, obviously. Minus a lander, going to the Moon is pointless. Edited July 8, 2020 by tater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Nerd Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 A quick question: Does LOI means LLO insertion or highly elliptical lunar orbit (Is HELO a valid abbreviation?) insertion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barzon Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 LOI is Lunar Orbit Insertion. Can be insertion into any orbit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Nerd Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 Like! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 The bump it throw for the naked EUS is because the ICPS or EUS spend props to circularize the initial SLS orbit (or at least to raise perigee to a stable parking orbit, since the initial core stage orbit intentionally disposes the core). Minus the 27-40t of cargo, more residuals remain. The trouble of course is cost. Launching a naked FH would be easy to sell because it's cheap, even fully expended. Launching nothing for X billion dollars would probably be a hard sell (even if it makes sense from a mission standpoint in a particular case). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightside Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 5 hours ago, Space Nerd said: kerbal factor Can you elaborate on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikegarrison Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 1 hour ago, tater said: I need one of those for my mouth. I can never wait for the pizza to cool down before biting that first slice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCgothic Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 (edited) I'm really not a fan of the orange insulation. SpaceX is in a prime position for an EOR mission. Falcon 9 could probably stick Europa Clipper AND a Star48B PAM in LEO without even breaking a sweat. RTLS from SLC40 no problem. One quick docking to a F9US launched by Falcon Heavy from LC-39A later, and you've got 6700m/s including the kick stage. If Falcon Heavy has to scrub, no biggy. EC and STAR don't have a time limit. Together they're good for a C3 of 88.5, which is SLS Block1B beating. If you ASDS the falcon 9 with a new enlarged STAR(180?) massing 10t (16t total) then the combined FUS + STAR180 hits a C3 of 106. SLS Block2 can only manage 6t to 94 C3. (And it keeps Thiokol in business! Everybody's happy!) Edit: Some maths suggests it would be a STAR 74 to 80 or so, depending on oblateness. Easily within Falcon 9's 181" fairing envelope. Edited July 8, 2020 by RCgothic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCgothic Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 Did some maths on 8 EOR mission modes: 1. Europa Clipper on Falcon Heavy (expendable). C3 = 73.5. The baseline for comparison. Doesn't quite match SLS Block 1, and isn't good enough for a direct trajectory to Europa. 2. Europa Clipper plus STAR48 on Falcon Heavy (expendable). C3 = 78.6. The addition of a third stage is a big improvement, but it's still not good enough for a direct trajectory to Europa. Beats SLS Block 1, which isn't good enough either. Likely actual mission mode. 3. Europa Clipper on F9 RTLS, docked to FHUS (2xASDS) in LEO. C3 - 72.9. Worse than the baseline. The loss of 6t of FHUS propellant by reserving booster margin for side core recover isn't compensated by 6t additional F9 payload. 4. Europa Clipper on F9 RTLS, docked to FHUS (expendable) in LEO. C3 - 82.2. Whereas this is just about the minimum required for a direct trajectory. Not quite SLS Block1B, but it gets the mission done for a fraction of the price even expending 3 of 4 cores. 5. Europa Clipper plus STAR48 on F9 RTLS, docked to FHUS (2xASDS) in LEO. C3 - 81.2. Not as good as 4, and probably just short of a direct trajectory. You could maybe get away with just 80 at the optimum launch window. The loss of 6t of FHUS propellant by reserving booster margin for side core recover isn't compensated by sending EC up on F9 or by the small kick stage. 6. Europa Clipper plus STAR48 on F9 RTLS, docked to FHUS (expendable) in LEO. C3 = 90.4. Easily direct to Europa. Beats SLS Block 1B as well. Does lose 3 of 4 cores, but this is negligible compared to the comparative cost of SLS. 7. Europa Clipper plus SUPERSTAR on F9 ASDS, docked to FHUS (2xASDS) in LEO. C3 = 94. Competitive with SLS Block 2 for performance and recovers 3 of 4 cores (JRTI2, OCISLY and ASoG required). 8. Europa Clipper plus SUPERSTAR on F9 ASDS, docked to FHUS (expendable) in LEO. C3 = 102.5. Roflstomps SLS Block 2 for a fraction of the price. Can send ludicrously large probes to anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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