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Community Caveman Jool 5 mission

ManEatingApe
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Muetdhiver

Muetdhiver

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Posted

Jool arrival !

The encounter was pretty poor, costing 250 m/s DV to correct the Pe to 1000km. I still have 680 m/s in the tank for the capture.
 

Spoiler

oraFGlM.png

Ceuz5jn.png

After correction.

It seems I may have screwed up with the correction burn or something. What I did not plan for was that the X8 tank did not display fuel units to the 0.01 like the LF-T400 does. I guess the deep space Jeb pickup did not help either. Anyway, we got there. capture will cost about 200, so I could use the 480 remaining to lower Ap quite a bit and correct the inclination. All the other tanks are full, and RCS is completly untouched :)

This was not easy, but I was pleasantly surprised by the ease of keeping the kerbal from drifting too far off.

Last, we are starting to get far from the Sun and the solar panels start to feel a tad weak...

voaSB8v.png

Jeb happy to arrive at last. That was a long flight.

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Muetdhiver

Muetdhiver

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Posted (edited)

Jool arrival complete. Jeb says hello from Periapsis

XGCPalo.png

The insertion burn went well, some inclination leftovers had to be cleaned up. Mainly due to compensating Jeb drift.

We are in high ellipical orbit at bit higher than the last moon. We have ~170 m/s left in the main tank. This could push the Pe a bit up if required. Though I doubt it would be enough to reach Laythe orbit. I wasted quite a bit of fuel between the pickups, inclination correction (100 m/s) and sign error in the correction burn (250 m/s). Well... that's what margins are for I guess ;)

I created a pull request (I hope correctly this time).

Who's up ?

Edited by Muetdhiver
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Jacke

Jacke

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15 hours ago, Muetdhiver said:

Don't drive while tired seems to include spaceships as well :rolleyes: Who knew ?

"Don't fdisk after midnight." applies to other complex tasks that have to be done right the first time.

 

59 minutes ago, Muetdhiver said:

We are in high ellipical orbit at bit higher than the last moon. We have ~170 m/s left in the main tank.

That'll get better as moon craft are used.  Is there a workable path that gets Jeb to all moons and then back to Kerbin?

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ManEatingApe

ManEatingApe

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1 hour ago, Muetdhiver said:

I created a pull request (I hope correctly this time).

Who's up ?

Excellent work! I'm travelling at the moment but will aim to merge the PR this weekend.

34 minutes ago, Jacke said:

That'll get better as moon craft are used.  Is there a workable path that gets Jeb to all moons and then back to Kerbin?

The "Mission Planning" spoiler of the OP has all the details. The next steps (that can run in any order) are:

  1. TANGO+BRAVO+Kerbal adjust Jool PE to match Tylo then capture into low Tylo orbit (burning as close to Tylo as possible to maximise Oberth effect)
  2. LIMA+KILO adjust Jool PE to match Laythe then capture into low Laythe orbit (aero-braking to conserve dV if possible)
  3. VICTOR adjust Jool PE to match Vall then capture into low Vall orbit
Edited by ManEatingApe
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ManEatingApe

ManEatingApe

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@Muetdhiver I've merged your changes and tagged them as "v18". Everyone please pull the latest changes.


Excellent mission, orbit looks perfect and even more impressively you didn't even use any EVA propellant!
 

Who would like to go next? You can choose any one of the 3 missions listed in my previous post.
Anyone is welcome to throw their hat into the ring, even if they have not already contributed to this thread.

Edited by ManEatingApe
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Muetdhiver

Muetdhiver

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Just throwing my 0.02$ here :

It would be best if we could avoid having MIKE doing further orbits. At some point we will meet Tylo or Laythe and get into trouble.

IMO the three missions should start when MIKE get to Ap during the present orbit. I do not have tools for navigating in Jool's system.

So maybe one person should juggle with all those insertions and captures and then pass on the hand for the Tylo landing mission ?

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Jacke

Jacke

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3 hours ago, Muetdhiver said:

It would be best if we could avoid having MIKE doing further orbits. At some point we will meet Tylo or Laythe and get into trouble.

IMO the three missions should start when MIKE get to Ap during the present orbit. I do not have tools for navigating in Jool's system.

So maybe one person should juggle with all those insertions and captures and then pass on the hand for the Tylo landing mission ?

The problem is Jeb has to be on each mission to each moon to count as a Jool-5.

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ManEatingApe

ManEatingApe

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48 minutes ago, Muetdhiver said:

The plan is to have the landers sent forward...By having the landers already in orbit of the target bodies we avoid any gravity assist unpleasantness.

^^^ What @Muetdhiver said - the Vall and Laythe landers will fly ahead unmanned then wait in orbit of their respective moons until Jeb arrives.

One minor clarification, the moon order is: Tylo -> Bop -> Pol -> Vall -> Laythe -> Kerbin

Remaining mission plan copied from the OP:

  • TANGO+BRAVO+Kerbal adjust Jool PE to match Tylo then capture into low Tylo orbit (burning as close to Tylo as possible to maximise Oberth effect)
  • LIMA+KILO adjust Jool PE to match Laythe then capture into low Laythe orbit (aero-braking to conserve dV if possible)
  • VICTOR adjust Jool PE to match Vall then capture into low Vall orbit
  • TANGO land on Tylo then return to orbit
  • TANGO rendevous in low Tylo orbit with BRAVO
  • BRAVO lands on Bop and Pol
  • BRAVO rendevouses with VICTOR in low Vall orbit
  • VICTOR land on Vall then return to orbit
  • VICTOR lands on Laythe, using propulsive braking to slow down in atmosphere enough
  • LIMA rescue Kerbal then return to orbit
  • KILO eject directly from low Laythe orbit (to maximise Oberth effect and Laythe's orbital velocity boost)
  • KILO Fairing/decouple device used to protect valiant Kerbal from re-entry at interplanetary speeds

Craft codenames:

  • TANGO = Tylo lander
  • BRAVO = Bop and Pol lander
  • VICTOR = Vall lander
  • LIMA = Laythe lander
  • KILO = Kerbin return vehicle
     
4 hours ago, Muetdhiver said:

It would be best if we could avoid having MIKE doing further orbits. At some point we will meet Tylo or Laythe and get into trouble.

I agree that we run the risk of an unwanted Laythe/Tylo encounter and need to get the landers safely in their parking orbits.
However the more craft in different orbits at the same time the greater the risk of an unwanted encounter.
A few suggestions:

  • Just accept the risk, rendevous the landers one at a time and F5/F9 if anything happens. A small tweak of MIKE's orbit will prevent a collision.
  • Boost MIKE to just above Tylo orbit + SOI (68.5 Mm + 11mM = 79.5Mm) guaranteeing safety (well except for Bop & Pol but I think we can take the chance :D)



I'm happy to take the next mission if their are no volunteers in the next 24 hours. :ph34r:

Edited by ManEatingApe
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Muetdhiver

Muetdhiver

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Posted

Okay cool !

I would suggest detaching and then  raising the Pe of the two other landing crafts.

This way the next players in line just have to do the insertions and we avoid the risk of losing MIKE plus the landers to some unfortunate Laythe or Tylo encounter on the way back to Ap.

Do you guys see what I mean ?

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ManEatingApe

ManEatingApe

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Quick progress update:

  • Docked TANGO and BRAVO together with fuel tank in the middle
  • Rendezvoused with Jeb
  • Raised PE of orbit to match Tylo
  • Time warped and realised we are in a retrograde orbit around Jool :confused:

Fortunately there is a Laythe encounter that ejects the craft on the current orbit.
My plan to salvage the save is:

  • Keep MIKE together
  • Brake slightly during Laythe intercept so that MIKE is thrown into higher orbit instead of ejected
  • Reverse orbit at AP where dV is cheap using the remaining 175 m/s dV in MIKE

@Muetdhiver Could you hang onto whatever intermediate saves you have. I may not be able to salvage the save, in which case we would have to revert slightly to the Jool encounter and restart the save from that point.

 

On 10/21/2019 at 4:56 PM, Muetdhiver said:

I would suggest detaching and then  raising the Pe of the two other landing crafts.

This way the next players in line just have to do the insertions and we avoid the risk of losing MIKE plus the landers to some unfortunate Laythe or Tylo encounter on the way back to Ap.

Do you guys see what I mean ?

I see the problem. If it doesn't cost too much dV I will raise the PE of VICTOR and KILO+LIMA to a "safe" orbit outside of Tylo's influence.

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ManEatingApe

ManEatingApe

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On 10/23/2019 at 3:52 PM, Muetdhiver said:

Retrograde orbit... oh dear...

I was so focused on the Jeb on a ladder thing that it did not even cross my mind :confused:

I have a save If required. 

Ha, no worries! I'll attempt to keep going, we can revert to your save if necessary.

 

UPDATE:

@Muetdhiver I wasn't able to flip MIKE's orbit prograde without using up too much dV, could you re-do the Jool capture?

I suggest that this time around we capture to a much higher AP (almost to the edge of the SOI).

This would make it cheaper (in terms of dV) to implement your idea of raising the PE of the landers to a safe level higher than Tylo's orbit.

Edited by ManEatingApe
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dvader

dvader

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Posted (edited)

I almost had a save of the save but then I hit an unexpected issue.

If you raise the Pe to about 500km, you can avoid Laythe (calculated using the power of the quicksave). At Pe, you then raise the Ap a lot to make the cost of reversing orbit lower. Using some energy calculations I get a velocity at Ap of 100 m/s at 600 Mm and 25 m/s at 2.4 Gm (Jools SoI is about 2.5Gm). Assuming 200m/s to reverse direction, about 300m/s to raise the Ap and then lower it again and we get 500 dV. That is more fuel than the main tank has but... there is a full 1.5 spare tank at the top with 270 Lq which should be about 550 dV.

But... for some reason I can't use the fuel in the spare tank. I can enable crossfeed on both docking ports but the main engine won't use the fuel and I can't figure out what is wrong. I've tried undocking and re-docking but it didn't help.

 

On 10/15/2019 at 12:19 AM, Muetdhiver said:

The only thing worrying me is the Laythe part. It seems... hard.

What, me worry? :)I will of course volunteer for the mission but if someone else wants to try it, I don't mind at all. It just requires some practice and patience. As long as nothing strange happens with staging or tanks that is...

 

UPDATE: I tried switching docking ports but... it is even weirder. I used one of the small landers as a tug and the main engine will happily draw fuel from the Baguette tanks, through all the docking ports, but it will not use the fuel in the T200 and T400 tanks which are in between... I really don't get it (see picture). Maybe I've been away for too long and the computer doesn't like me anymore...

Spoiler

FqEHJu2.png

 

Edited by dvader
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Jacke

Jacke

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30 minutes ago, dvader said:

UPDATE: I tried switching docking ports but... it is even weirder. I used one of the small landers as a tug and the main engine will happily draw fuel from the Baguette tanks, through all the docking ports, but it will not use the fuel in the T200 and T400 tanks which are in between... I really don't get it (see picture). Maybe I've been away for too long and the computer doesn't like me anymore...

  Hide contents

FqEHJu2.png

 

Because the tanks are disabled (the red circle with slash).  Click on those red circle icons to enable the tanks.

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Muetdhiver

Muetdhiver

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TBH l have switched off most tanks to avoid accidentally draining them with the main engine.

As for the Laythe plane let's just say that it would be best if I don't fly it ;) . My skills are definitly lacking in the spaceplane area (I only ever built two of those, one being a caveman model).

I tend to strongly disagree with aerodynamics XD.

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ManEatingApe

ManEatingApe

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On 10/28/2019 at 9:04 PM, Muetdhiver said:

I have redone the Jool insertion, prograde this time :rolleyes:

There is inclination to correct, but it on the way down from Ap, so we'll have to do it then.

Thanks for re-doing, new orbit looks great:

  • Highly elliptical so that raising lander PE to above Tylo's orbit will be cheap
  • Plentiful dV conserved, more than 300 m/s remaining in the tank!


I've merged your changes and tagged them as "v19". Everybody pull the latest changes.

@dvader Thanks for volunteering for Laythe!

Now it's time for me to try the Tylo rendezvous...

Edited by ManEatingApe
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dvader

dvader

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I can also sign up for 15 and 16, putting VICTOR and KILO+LIMA into Vall and Laythe orbits (unless someone else wants to). That should be fairly quick and easy.

On 10/29/2019 at 12:14 PM, Muetdhiver said:

I tend to strongly disagree with aerodynamics XD.

I used to dislike atmospheres but then I tried landing on Tylo... Atmospheres are great :)

 

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