RP-1 Realistic Progression One for KSP 1.12.3

[LTL King]

I can almost get it to 300K Peri orbit but just a little shy.
It has gotten to orbit but the peri sinks before I get there.
I'm sure it's possible but has to be perfect turn.

I added RCS and gyro to the probe to allow me to circle around to apo and push up the peri.
I can't get any RCS or Gyro to work.
I moved it under 2nd stage thinking it was a fuel transfer issue.
Tried using action tab as well.

https://prnt.sc/G7r5stuwh0g5

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2813107545

 

https://prnt.sc/YBw4F2F1X6Wx

https://prnt.sc/toMUW0ZEqPH3

https://prnt.sc/vNhLX4zDJUwA

 

On 5/17/2022 at 2:08 PM, LTL King said:

Where's the best place to get craft files.
Kerbalx-No. Steam-No. Curse-No
Not that many uploads RP1 files.
I'm not asking for a solution. Just if I'm struggling something in each node unlocked to allow me to modify it a little and make it do what I need.
I stopped the last time at passing by the moon and couldn't find any good craft files for 1st moon interactions up through Saturn V.

I just want to get 1st orbit powered and 1st science done.

Edited May 26, 2022 by LTL King

[Joesk]

I have used kerbalx to upload my soviet build ships. The sputnik I put up there will just make orbit and has science on it. Took me 4 attempts to make it though due to engine failures. You could DL it and try it. https://kerbalx.com/Joesk/RORP-sputnik-1

 It will be expensive to tool tho.

Also for US based craft.  Try this at github https://github.com/NathanKell/LCDev/tree/main/lcdev/Ships/VAB

[AVaughan]

@LTL King @Joesk There is a channel on discord for sharing craft files.  Discord is also a good place for help and advice.  https://discord.gg/VdsxK9p7QC

7 hours ago, LTL King said:

I added RCS and gyro to the probe to allow me to circle around to apo and push up the peri.
I can't get any RCS or Gyro to work.

I'm not sure which of the RCS part packs you screenshotted have RO/RP-1 configs.  
If RCS isn't working then check you have high pressure tanks, the correct fuel mixture, enough avionics, and for manual control, not MechJeb, you also need a comms connection.

 

Edit: For RCS parts make sure they have an engine config button in the PAW, otherwise they probably aren't correctly configured for RP-1. 
You shouldn't have any gyroscope parts at that stage in career.

Edited May 27, 2022 by AVaughan

[LTL King]

2 hours ago, AVaughan said:

@LTL King @Joesk There is a channel on discord for sharing craft files.  Discord is also a good place for help and advice.  https://discord.gg/VdsxK9p7QC

I'm not sure which of the RCS part packs you screenshotted have RO/RP-1 configs.  
If RCS isn't working then check you have high pressure tanks, the correct fuel mixture, enough avionics, and for manual control, not MechJeb, you also need a comms connection.

 

Edit: For RCS parts make sure they have an engine config button in the PAW, otherwise they probably aren't correctly configured for RP-1. 
You shouldn't have any gyroscope parts at that stage in career.

Download the craft.
If parts don't load because you don't have that mod.
That's fine.
I used every RCS there is in the parts list..
Still no RCS control.
Make sure I have .....
https://prnt.sc/M8SSsxwclCBg

[LTL King]

6 hours ago, Joesk said:

I have used kerbalx to upload my soviet build ships. The sputnik I put up there will just make orbit and has science on it. Took me 4 attempts to make it though due to engine failures. You could DL it and try it. https://kerbalx.com/Joesk/RORP-sputnik-1

 It will be expensive to tool tho.

Also for US based craft.  Try this at github https://github.com/NathanKell/LCDev/tree/main/lcdev/Ships/VAB

You wanna narrow down the list.
None of these have descriptions, tech tree info, capabilities.
At least with curse you can filter by mod. Kerbalx you can look at the picture and most people are kind enough to add a description.
I've been on discord.

https://prnt.sc/Zyw-olKeBFdc

[AVaughan]

2 hours ago, LTL King said:

If parts don't load because you don't have that mod.
That's fine.

Best guess from the screenshot you shared is that either you don't have sufficient avionics on that stage (science cores don't provide enough control for rcs), or you don't have comms.

Here is the the rocket I used for my first orbit in my last campaign

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GEL5tiJg8DJB8R7-pr4FYLfBpu4aLo71/view?usp=sharing

It successfully reached 315 x 7200 despite the second stage engine failing early.   It has science instruments and a few days of power.  It easily has enough margin to add a small solar panel if desired, or to launch polar.  (You will need to coast toward apoapsis, then use rcs to point towards the horizon, then manually spin up and ullage before dropping the avionics and igniting the last stage).

1 hour ago, LTL King said:

You wanna narrow down the list.

I'm pretty sure those craft files are from his current YouTube playthrough/dev stream.  https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLI_cTKGllaWjtxrJVH8j4EDD_KEIYdZOG  .  The craft name and episode number are enough for viewers to pick which craft they are interested in.  (Or you could just download the lot and open them in sandbox until you find one you like).

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by AVaughan

[LTL King]

1 hour ago, AVaughan said:

Best guess from the screenshot you shared is that either you don't have sufficient avionics on that stage (science cores don't provide enough control for rcs), or you don't have comms.

 

Just hit ok and the parts that your game has will still load.

I do have avionics and connection.
I've been following along with a simple space program.
I over built with making sure I have more AVI than needed.
I can upgrade the engine, use the same tanks, and add payload later.

https://prnt.sc/FmX6QwLfDCH1

2 hours ago, AVaughan said:

I'm pretty sure those craft files are from his current YouTube playthrough/dev stream.  https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLI_cTKGllaWjtxrJVH8j4EDD_KEIYdZOG  .  The craft name and episode number are enough for viewers to pick which craft they are interested in.  (Or you could just download the lot and open them in sandbox until you find one you like).

 

Your craft 1st result
https://prnt.sc/o6WDK0zxi1Oy

[LTL King]

https://prnt.sc/NieejYrGtPyH

[LTL King]

I redesigned my upper stage with the AJ10. I can't add any more DV to it.
I removed the htp all rcs and the solar panels.
Still didn't reduce the weight by much and 500 less DV than what you have.
https://prnt.sc/nJmd2wymrVYk

For some reason I had 2 avionics in there.
Gave me another 400~
https://prnt.sc/jp1Cha3jclPv
New stats.
https://prnt.sc/vA21E9Hou_9C
Another 616

[Kazkar]

2 hours ago, LTL King said:

[...]
I do have avionics and connection.
[...]
https://prnt.sc/FmX6QwLfDCH1

[...]

Hi, @LTL King! If I read this image correctly, then you have enough avionics ONLY for the first stage.

The left pop-up says "Contr. Mass 78.0 t", and the lowest stage in "Delta-V stats" shows that this stage has from 74 to 71 tons. This is good.

The second pop-up says "Contr. Mass 15.0 t", but the second stage is shown as "Start Mass" = 68.661 t and "End mass" = 15.108 t. So, it cannot control that stage, because it starts much heavier than 15 tons, and even when the whole fuel is burned, it still has 108 kg too much.

The last stage says "Contr. Mass 6.0 t", but the "Start Mass" and "End mass" of this stage seems to be "9.524 t" and "1.922 t" - this one would be controllable after burning some of its fuel.

 

Could this be the problem?

Edited May 27, 2022 by Kazkar
Trim the quoted part, so that the link to the mentioned image is visible from the start

[LTL King]

3 hours ago, Kazkar said:

Hi, @LTL King! If I read this image correctly, then you have enough avionics ONLY for the first stage.

The last stage says "Contr. Mass 6.0 t", but the "Start Mass" and "End mass" of this stage seems to be "9.524 t" and "1.922 t" - this one would be controllable after burning some of its fuel.

 

Could this be the problem?

The last stage before the engine gets ejected and MJ with current settings will not show mass when there is no engine attached.
The 1st stage with 3sec is boosters that you don't see.
So the 78T avi is controlling from 74T-15T

Edited May 27, 2022 by LTL King

[Joesk]

14 hours ago, LTL King said:

You wanna narrow down the list.
None of these have descriptions, tech tree info, capabilities.
At least with curse you can filter by mod. Kerbalx you can look at the picture and most people are kind enough to add a description.
I've been on discord.

  I believe (i'm assuming) that all the parts mods are part of the RP1 express install from Ckan. The only parts mod I am using not part of the express install is the Fasa mod. And on the sputnik there are no parts from that mod on it.

  As for control on early satellites most had no avionics on them. The control for them till they are "boosted" into orbit was on the previous stage. Check out the Vanguard in the LCDev crafts.

As for why the RCS wasn't working I can't tell from the picture why. If you have mechjeb installed and you can't control craft but if you max the throttle and rcs fires it might be an avionics issue.

I am still learning how everything works in this game too and as in RL failures teach more then successes. Took me like 4 failed launches of my sputnik till I figured out what I was doing wrong. All the elements were there I just didn't execute correctly. RP0 is unforgiving in that aspect.

[Aelfhe1m]

Does anyone know how to properly configure drag chutes in RP-1/RealChutes?

I attached a pair of radial chutes to the tail of my plane and configured them using the drag option in the real chutes config screen but they didn't deploy when I hit space just after touchdown.

Spoiler

The log unhelpfully just says:

[LOG 01:47:57.247] [RealChute]: RC.radial was activated in stage 0
[LOG 01:47:57.249] [RealChute]: RC.radial was deactivated
[LOG 01:47:57.249] [RealChute]: RC.radial was activated in stage 0
[LOG 01:47:57.249] [RealChute]: RC.radial was deactivated

 

I need the chutes to help slow down since the brakes and spoilers can't seem to cope before I run out of runway. (The plane did stop safely but not on the runway so I missed out on the bonus in the contract)

[Joesk]

5 hours ago, Aelfhe1m said:

Does anyone know how to properly configure drag chutes in RP-1/RealChutes?

  When I was using them on my Xplanes I had to set them to deploy on ground contact. And when I would touch down they would auto deploy. I think you have to select each one if you have two to set them. For me the symmetry button didn't work. Also set the deploy time to as low as possible.

[Aelfhe1m]

Thanks @Joesk I don't know how I missed that radio button! Symmetry button seemed to work for me.

[Kazkar]

On 5/27/2022 at 10:17 AM, LTL King said:

I used every RCS there is in the parts list..
Still no RCS control.

I have found something today! All the RCS thrusters have the setting "RCS: disabled" by default. This option is located in the PAW, in the group "Control" - and it is available both in VAB as in flight.

Could THAT be the problem?

I don't really know why the default is false, but if I wouldn't remember your question, I might be unpleasantly surprised during my simulation

[Joesk]

11 hours ago, Kazkar said:

I have found something today! All the RCS thrusters have the setting "RCS: disabled" by default. This option is located in the PAW, in the group "Control" - and it is available both in VAB as in flight.

I had that issue with the RCS on one RN pods I use. I had to enable the RCS manually since there was no way to stage it. If the RCS is stagable it should activate on stage even if it is disabled.

[Kazkar]

I think I have found an interesting "quirk" related to the vehicle mass calculations and launching clamps (both the stock-with-ro-config Launch Stability Enhancers, and launch bases from Modular Launch Pads mod).

I've got a "Downrange Distance" contract, where one of the points is "Maintain Sufficient Avionics for the first 50s of the flight". So I have tooled an avionics for 20t, what is the maximum capacity of my current launch pad, and I have stuffed the rocket with as much fuel as possible, taking care to not exceed the 20t.

To launch with style, I have also added a launch base and four precisely adjusted clamp arms.

Here is a screenshot from the VAB:

Spoiler

The (stock) Engineer Report reports (correctly) 19.968t out of 20, and does not stop me from launching it.

Kerbal Engineer Redux reports 20.008t - this seems to be the mass of the rocket plus the 4 launch arms.

And this is the screenshot from the launch site:

Spoiler

Here, the "Flight Engineer" (I don't know if it is the same mod, or some other one) shows the mass as 20.680t. The same mass seems to be used by the avionics - right after starting the simulation or the real launch, there is a fading message along the lines of "Insufficient avionics, 20680 out of 20000, locking controls".

I do not know where is this 600-something coming from. The launch base in the VAB claims to have 1 ton. Maybe it's the mass of the various resources pumped by the clamps?

In addition, the MechJeb (not on the screenshot) reports that strange mass plus that 1 ton of the launch pad: 21.680.

The same issue - but with slightly different numbers - may be observed if I replace the launch pad and the launch arms with the stock (with RO config - as it states in the item description) launch clamps.

 

It looks like various mods may have different methods of finding our what is the current mass of the craft.

 

But the actual sad problem is that when I launch this rocket, my contract does not trigger, because it takes about a second to register the new (correct) mass of the rocket in flight, and this already fails the part "the first 50 seconds" (I was flying about 2 minutes before noticing that). 

Oh, cruel world! And I wanted to play without using cheats to right the wrongs!

 

Is it reproducible by any of you, guys, or is it something on my side? (I have pretty bare - with added kOS - express install from CKAN, with just one round of the upgrades from a few days ago; nothing suspicious or shaddy)

[siimav]

@Kazkar what RP-1 version are you using? There's a fix in v1.11.9.0 for a similar issue.

[Aelfhe1m]

@Kazkar I'm not seeing this either. Since I had RP-1 open in the background when I read this, I popped into the VAB and stretched an existing SR to 18.96t with 20t avionics. Added an overbuilt launch stand to get it to 21.12t gross. Launched a simulation and added a downrange (difficult) contract. Didn't have enough SR payload on board for that part of the contract but the "maintain sufficient avionics" parameter completed fine :

Spoiler

This is an RP-1 express install (CKAN) on KSP 1.12.3 with a few extra UI and utility mods.

[Kazkar]

On 5/31/2022 at 9:34 PM, siimav said:

@Kazkar what RP-1 version are you using? There's a fix in v1.11.9.0 for a similar issue.

I have 1.11.10.0 (from Express Install). That issue - "Fix avionics getting briefly locked at flight scene load" - initially I thought that it is totally unrelated. But now I am not so sure... (follow-up below)

 

23 hours ago, Aelfhe1m said:

@Kazkar I'm not seeing this either. Since I had RP-1 open in the background when I read this, I popped into the VAB and stretched an existing SR to 18.96t with 20t avionics. Added an overbuilt launch stand to get it to 21.12t gross. Launched a simulation and added a downrange (difficult) contract. Didn't have enough SR payload on board for that part of the contract but the "maintain sufficient avionics" parameter completed fine [...]

Hmm... Indeed I see that the "Vessel Mass" is over 21t in the mod window. This is also the most basic, 20t launch pad, right? The game would not allow you to launch a vessel (without the launching base stuff), which would exceed that mass, would it?

Apparently some evil magic is at work here.

I had two working theories, one about my computer being too slow (he is almost as old as I am... as for a computer, at least) and failing in some race condition between updating the mass of the vehicle and the contract checking the current state. My second working theory was that maybe the contract fails when I stage the first ... stage? I have to warm up the engine for ca 2 seconds, and only the second stage releases the clamps. Maybe it was already counting that as the flight time?

But then I've tested the stuff, and this time it looks again slightly different. (I shall have backed up the gamesave, instead of screenshots, but well... too late now.)

This time I no longer have that contract available. However, I still have the "Downrange Milestone (3000km)". That one also has the clause about not losing the control.

So I run a simulation, I open the contract tab, and the "Maintain..." clause still has the green check mark. So far, so good. So I trigger the first stage - I see the mass still over 20t, but the contract is still green, and the mission time clock is NOT ticking. Then I launch the rocket (the second stage), and - lo and behold - once the vehicle is flying, and it finally has the correct mass, I see that temporary message in the upper-central part of the screen "Insufficient avionics... locking control". Now you're telling me that? However, the contract is still green-checked.

At that point I have looked back at the first screenshot in my initial post up there. By accident, the "Downrange Milestone" contract is still visible there, and it still has the green check mark! Right below the non-green-checked-but-exactly-the-same clause from the other contract.

So maybe there - in the contract - some bug was hiding?

Maybe that contract was failing during the scene load? Maybe it actually is an issue similar or connected to that mentioned in the 1.11.9 version? When this problem hit, I had already been playing for a few hours. This usually involves a large amount of explosions, restarting the simulation, scene changes to and from VAB, etc. Memory corruption would not surprise me - after all, the game sometimes crashes to tell me that I was playing for too long.

 

And talking about evil magic, some time before that I was also trying to land a jet plane. With engines turned off, lowered gear, and perfectly flat flight (one of these helpful panels was showing me vertical velocity to be a few millimeters(!) up), several meters above the ground, and the speed of ca 101 m/s the plane was... speeding up! It just did not want to fall to the ground! I was swinging over the runway, then (still with the engines turned OFF) turning back for another approach, and again.... and again... And because I was gaining height after each turn, I had to deploy spoilers to slow down again after going back closer to the ground. The spoilers were causing the plane to raise the nose sharply when the speed was somehow below 90-100m/s, so I had to turn them off for the final part of the approach.

Was it the wind? Always turning so that it was blowing in my back? Or have I designed that plane to be so aerodynamic the the small fan that the pilot had in his cockpit for some hot days was causing enough thrust to speed up this 5 ton machine?

Well... Just a normal day.

[Aelfhe1m]

43 minutes ago, Kazkar said:

Hmm... Indeed I see that the "Vessel Mass" is over 21t in the mod window. This is also the most basic, 20t launch pad, right? The game would not allow you to launch a vessel (without the launching base stuff), which would exceed that mass, would it?

Apparently some evil magic is at work here.

I had two working theories, one about my computer being too slow (he is almost as old as I am... as for a computer, at least) and failing in some race condition between updating the mass of the vehicle and the contract checking the current state. My second working theory was that maybe the contract fails when I stage the first ... stage? I have to warm up the engine for ca 2 seconds, and only the second stage releases the clamps. Maybe it was already counting that as the flight time?

Yes 20t pad. At least in my version the Engineer's Report only counts the mass of the rocket not the launch stand. So as long as the rocket (minus the MLP parts) is under 20t it still allows it to launch. Note: I really pushed the mass for the below screen shot for the purposes of demonstration.

Spoiler

The engine on this rocket also has a ~1.5s spool-up time before releasing launch clamps.

[Sileo]

Hello,

I have just done a fresh install of KSP and only select "RP-1 Graphics High Res Express Install" in CKAN.

I'm trying to do some test in sandbox mode. I'm trying to do the tutorial : "Designing Your First Sounding Rocket".

But I haven't access to "throttle limiter" on Aerobee thruster and there is no delta in VAB (the blue thing in stage) and I can't click on stage to know TWR or any more stats.
https://imgur.com/KT1amiS

Is it normal ? or I have done something wrong during installation ?

Edit : Got answer on discord !
Delta V is now deactivated cause the ingame thing is wrong
And the throttle limiter was deactivated too
Then it's a normal behavior ! Thx !

Edited June 1, 2022 by Sileo
I have informations on Discord

[AVaughan]

@Kazkar  A couple of other possibilities come to mind.  (I have made all of these mistakes in the past).

One possibility is that your rocket is actually 20.0001 tons, and the VAB report/KER is displaying that as 20.00 tons.   You can check whether rp-1 thinks your rocket has enough avionics by opening the rp-1 display and clicking on the avionics tab.  (I'm not sure whether you need to remove the clamps.  I often use this to check that an upper stage or a probe core will have control once in space.  But I don't normally get close enough to the avionics limit to need it for a booster).

Another is that if you use the slider at the bottom of a tank to remove fuel, then the launch clamps will replenish that fuel on the pad.  That can mean that you think your rocket is under the avionics limit, when it is actually over them.  (Use the tank utilisation slider, or the Real Fuels GUI to remove fuel if you want to use a partially filled tank).   

I have also occasionally made a small tweak to the physical dimensions of a procedural avionics unit, and then later noticed that the control limit had unexpectedly changed by a small amount, eg from 20 tons to 19.95 or so.

[Kazkar]

13 hours ago, AVaughan said:

[...] Another is that if you use the slider at the bottom of a tank to remove fuel, then the launch clamps will replenish that fuel on the pad. [...]

Oh, my... Where is the facepalm emoji when I need it?

These are very good advices, @AVaughan! I wanted to tell you that, and then I wanted to add that - quite obviously - I wouldn't make them.

But just to be over-absolutely sure, I've loaded that rocket design, checked both fuel tanks - and as I suspected, - they were perfectly full. But then I accidentally clicked on that green-black painted tank used to hold varying amounts of sounding payloads... Tja. Because wasting space is a bad thing, I had indeed assigned all the remaining volume to the fuels, and didn't bother with adjusting the utilization percentage. These tanks were roughly half-empty. Filled up to the top, they explain nicely these "strange" 600-something kg.

Thanks, man! You made me believing again in the sanity of the world! (or at least in the rocket-launching part of it!)