[1.3.1] Ferram Aerospace Research: v0.15.9.1 "Liepmann" 4/2/18

[ferram4]

@kcs123: Noted, I think I know what's causing that. I'll see what can be done.

@Czerky: If you are not clipping unnecessary DRE heat shields into the Mk1 pod, then you have a messed up FAR install and you will need to manually delete the FAR folder and reinstall it. If you are clipping unnecessary heat shields into the pod, stop doing it, it has a built-in one, you know, the dome on the bottom.

[Kobymaru]

Could somebody help me out here? I was trying to build a simple plane.

It's so simple that there just isn't anything I could have done wrong. However, when I try to take off,

First, it yaws slightly to the left. When it gains speed it starts to roll violently to the right, as if the right wing doesn't produce any lift.

What the hell is going on?

[BudgetHedgehog]

Uhh.. where's your vertical stabiliser? Ya know, the thing that stops yawing..

[Kobymaru]

Uhh.. where's your vertical stabiliser? Ya know, the thing that stops yawing..

I removed it, because I thought it might be the reason for this behaviour. Same thing happens when I use any of the winglets though. Or what am I supposed to use as a stabilizer?

[Czerky]

@Czerky: If you are not clipping unnecessary DRE heat shields into the Mk1 pod, then you have a messed up FAR install and you will need to manually delete the FAR folder and reinstall it. If you are clipping unnecessary heat shields into the pod, stop doing it, it has a built-in one, you know, the dome on the bottom.

I haven't used any extra heat shields. I've also tried a manual re-installation. At this point I will try a process of elimination to see what else could be causing this issue.

[jstnj]

Okay, so I decided to stop being lazy and test with a less crazy descent (~110x35). Variables are the same except my landing location ended up being about 600m ASL. Here are the results w/ FAR data:

http://imgur.com/a/Ni2Ll

I haven't actually played with FAR in a while, so I'm not sure if these numbers are normal (I think they're ok?). Just FYI, I'm playing with stock Kerbin. Impact velocity at 600m ASL was 380m/s.

My reentry periapses have been anywhere from 25 - 48km and I am still having problems slowing the mk1 pod down. Maybe it is just harder in this version of FAR, but it makes burning up with DRE essentially impossible and crashing at 400m/s probable.

Just trying to see if this was an intended effect.

[Kobymaru]

Could somebody help me out here? I was trying to build a simple plane.

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/45365732594875320/2651463D6CE0C46FCAE6CDE01224A3D4B3E9DDBC/

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/45365732594879415/8E961A4193EE1AC24B53E671AC5D35F0504D18A2/1024x576.resizedimage

It's so simple that there just isn't anything I could have done wrong. However, when I try to take off,

First, it yaws slightly to the left. When it gains speed it starts to roll violently to the right, as if the right wing doesn't produce any lift.

What the hell is going on?

Ok, so if I remove the flaps, it starts working again. Apparently, if you attach the flaps in "symmetric mode", one will be upside down. The question now is, how to attach them properly?

[Rakaydos]

I'm still having flaps problems, at least in the editor FAR window, though it seems to be working on the runway at least. But without FAR aero analysis in the hanger, I'm hitting a brick wall in tuning my flaps.

[Czerky]

Update: Removing Advanced Jet Engine seems to have resolved the rapid descent issue for me. My capsules slow down to subsonic speeds as normal (drag coefficient values are now a lot higher - 0.65 near the surface instead of 0.09).

[jstnj]

Update: Removing Advanced Jet Engine seems to have resolved the rapid descent issue for me. My capsules slow down to subsonic speeds as normal (drag coefficient values are now a lot higher - 0.65 near the surface instead of 0.09).

Trying this now.

[ferram4]

@Kobymaru: Well, yes. All the problems you're having are a symptom of lacking a vertical tail. That is why most planes have a vertical tail: because when they don't, they run into the issues you're having. Add a vertical tail, all this behavior is exactly as expected for a vehicle of that design.

@Rakaydos: Did you not see me confirming to kcs123 that I know of the issue? I'm aware of it, complaining more doesn't make me work faster.

@Czerky: That's very odd; perhaps it was not updated to work with the most recent version of FAR. However, I don't know why that would break FAR itself.

[camlost]

Update: Removing Advanced Jet Engine seems to have resolved the rapid descent issue for me. My capsules slow down to subsonic speeds as normal (drag coefficient values are now a lot higher - 0.65 near the surface instead of 0.09).

In AJE, engines have a idle thrust that is usually 3% of max, which is more or less the case in reality. You can manually shut down engines if you want.

NVM, read it wrong, that's too weird. If it's just a pod then there's no AJEModule running

Edited December 21, 2014 by camlost

[ferram4]

But that should have no bearing whatsoever on a mk1 pod without any engines, jet or otherwise, coming back from orbit. Something is borking really, really badly.

[Rakaydos]

My apoligies... I Didnt see KCS's post so I missed the context of your "I'm working on it" post.

[Wanderfound]

I removed it, because I thought it might be the reason for this behaviour. Same thing happens when I use any of the winglets though. Or what am I supposed to use as a stabilizer?

Yes. If you look at your FAR analysis screens, you'd likely have bucketloads of red on the longitudinal numbers. You need stabilisers in vertical and horizontal axes. Use a tailfin (AKA "vertical stabiliser"), just like real aircraft do.

Have a poke at the third post in the Kerbodyne thread linked below if you need some clues on how to use the analyses.

[Czerky]

To verify my previous observation, I re-installed AJE, and the low drag issue reappeared. All tests were done with Mk1 Capsule + Mk16 Chute. In case it helps, the mods I'm using are:

6S Service Compartments

AJE

Antenna Range

Chatterer

Collision FX

Deadly Reentry

DMagic Science

Docking Port Indicator

Enhanced Navball

FAR

Final Frontier

Firespitter Core

KAC

KER

KJR

MM

PlanetShine

Precise Node

P.Fairings

P.Parts

RCS Build Aid

Realchutes

RLA Stockalike

SCANsat

Science Alert

Simulate Revert Launch

Toadicus Tools

Toolbar

(Everything but FAR installed via CKAN)

It doesn't make sense to me either. I'd feel a lot better if anyone else experiencing this issue could chime in. For now I will just accept my luck and enjoy 0.90.

Thank you for your hard work. Let me know if you need more info.

Edited December 21, 2014 by Czerky
typos

[uraa]

Can someone confirm that I am (not) the only one missing mk3 cargo bay texture with FAR plugin?

Stock KSP + ModuleManager.2.5.4.dll + FAR 0.14.5.1

KSP.log
[LOG 08:44:08.092] Load(Texture): Squad/Parts/Mk3/Mk3CargoBay/Mk3CargoBay
[LOG 08:44:08.119] Cannot create texture: No header created
[WRN 08:44:08.120] Texture load error in 'C:\GamesSteam\SteamApps\common\Kerbal Space Program\GameData\Squad\Parts\Mk3\Mk3CargoBay\Mk3CargoBay.tga'

output_log.txt
(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)

Load(Texture): Squad/Parts/Mk3/Mk3CargoBay/Mk3CargoBay

(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)

Cannot create texture: No header created

(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)

Texture load error in 'C:\GamesSteam\SteamApps\common\Kerbal Space Program\GameData\Squad\Parts\Mk3\Mk3CargoBay\Mk3CargoBay.tga'

(Filename: C:/BuildAgent/work/d63dfc6385190b60/artifacts/StandalonePlayerGenerated/UnityEngineDebug.cpp Line: 49)

logs

[Wanderfound]

Can someone confirm that I am (not) the only one missing mk3 cargo bay texture with FAR plugin?

I had some Mk3 cargo bay textures disappear recently; they reappeared when I removed E.V.E..

[uraa]

When I noticed that texture is missing I was adding one by one mod and texture is missing only with FAR.

btw what is E.V.E?

[NathanKell]

Known issue with KSP 0.25 and 0.90: TGAs sometimes fail to load. And porkjet did all those parts in TGA >.>

[uraa]

Thanks Nathan.

btw, i was just experimenting with other mods(KJR, KER, DREC, KAS) and so far for me its only happening with FAR when there are CustomFAR*.cfg's in FAR folder. If I delete these four files and start game, alt tab to windows and check log, texture is loaded, load save game (new or old no difference) texture is still there, but when I exit game and start it again (FAR has created these custom cfg's) texture is not loaded.

[Wanderfound]

When I noticed that texture is missing I was adding one by one mod and texture is missing only with FAR.

btw what is E.V.E?

The Environmental Visual Enhancements mod.

[Tic-Tac]

Hi

Any tips on how I should decelerate my spaceplanes ?

I managed to launch an MK3 Shuttle after hours of hard tests, and I can't seem to get it down.

I use Deadly Reentry and FAR(also tried with NEAR)

Whenever I try to get back in the atmosphere, it takes me something like half of Kerbin to get in "decent" flight speeds, so I never managed to land on the runway since I use Aerodynamics mods.

Except with parachutes.

But that's cheating. And they usually explode with DRE in reentry.

[Saint-Stanislas]

It's normal...

You can help yourself with airbrakes, but with deadly reentry you have to make that kind of trajectory if you don't wan't to burn or to crush your kerbals. It's a matter of how many G of deceleration and how much heat you're ship can take. You can tweak your reentry to get a shorter path, but there's no way you can deorbit less than .25 orbit from where you wan't to go ( actually yes , but lets talk only about common situations ).

I personnaly love airbrakes, they automatically go in the break action group, and then you can control pretty well your deceleration by playing with them. You could also make sure that spoilers/flap are enabled on your wings and to link them to some key in the action group to augment your deceleration power ( be careful though to test your plane reaction while all spoilers are on ). I understand your feeling about chute, I'm not using them either on spaceplanes.

A third option I used one time on a 300t spaceplane ( it was a bit to heavy for conventionnal breaking only) was to put some retroengines; I had two precooler body per side, one with a conic adapter on the back and intake in front, and one with engines on both sides. It's creating a lot of drag though, but it's manageable and pretty cool. I was using KSPinterstellar too, it make it easier to build over powered stuff.

[Wanderfound]

Hi

Any tips on how I should decelerate my spaceplanes ?

I managed to launch an MK3 Shuttle after hours of hard tests, and I can't seem to get it down.

I use Deadly Reentry and FAR(also tried with NEAR)

Whenever I try to get back in the atmosphere, it takes me something like half of Kerbin to get in "decent" flight speeds, so I never managed to land on the runway since I use Aerodynamics mods.

Except with parachutes.

But that's cheating. And they usually explode with DRE in reentry.

1) Deorbit burn, set your periapsis to about 20km, above the continent to the west of the one that KSC is on.

2) Use your wings to arrest your descent and transfer into controlled level flight as soon as you can.

3) Descend to about 30,000m. The lower you go, the faster you slow, but go too low and you'll fry. The Kerbal Flight Data mod is very useful for temperature monitoring.

4) Wait until drag pulls your speed down to about 1,500m/s.

5) Gradually descend further as you slow, keeping just above burn-up altitude.

6) Once you're down to 1,000m/s or so, begin S-turns to scrub the remaining speed.

See post #2 in the Kerbodyne thread linked below for more detail.