[1.3.1] Ferram Aerospace Research: v0.15.9.1 "Liepmann" 4/2/18

[blowfish]

Ok, I want the older version because the latest version broke all of my jetliner like the one in my profile pic and I am eager to see them take to the skies again.:(

Things will change as the aerodynamics are updated - FAR is a working aerodynamic model, not a complete one. So things will change, and you will have to rebalance your craft a bit but the changes should be minor.

[Khazar]

Both control mods are great. It's so much easier to control plane with mouse than it was with keyboard. Pilot assistant is also great improvement, but it seems to be little more difficult to handle properly. What settings should I use to get to desired location using time warping ? Should I use it to keep constant alt, angle or speed to get smoothest flight (to avoid so dangerous quick corrections ) And does it use site targeting or something ? When I got near desired area I have switched to map mode and clicked on target to set is as navigation target (or how its called). After that (not instantly but after very short time) my plane started to turn and dive. It looked like it was trying to aim for this target market, but maybe its coincidence only and it was just reducing alt this way ?

I also installed b9 mod, so i have couple new parts which I used in next design.

http://www./download/2yk5ar2bakaewbd/PRZECIER_XIV.craft

http://www./view/n57tn7cb911oh0f/007.jpg

[Crzyrndm]

Both control mods are great. It's so much easier to control plane with mouse than it was with keyboard. Pilot assistant is also great improvement, but it seems to be little more difficult to handle properly. What settings should I use to get to desired location using time warping ? Should I use it to keep constant alt, angle or speed to get smoothest flight (to avoid so dangerous quick corrections ) And does it use site targeting or something ? When I got near desired area I have switched to map mode and clicked on target to set is as navigation target (or how its called). After that (not instantly but after very short time) my plane started to turn and dive. It looked like it was trying to aim for this target market, but maybe its coincidence only and it was just reducing alt this way ?

All systems can result in smooth flight. Which one's to use are all on what you want to do (eg. gliding into the runway is easier with the VSpeed control, while long distance flight is normally easier with the altitude controller)

No, there is no "click/site target" system in Pilot Assistant, it's a much more basic level of control than something like that (pretty much, what you see is what you get). You didn't press pitch up/down or Yaw left/right keys by any chance?

Further inquiries should be directed to their respective threads though. This one is for FAR...

[DANGER_RV1]

From what i could find, at least with my heavily modded game, when i use the stock Mk1 Cockpit far doesn't seem to be able to calculate the stability derivatives. All values read 0, Though it works perfectly when i use the same craft with another cockpit, any advice on how to fix this is appreciated as i would very much like to use this great mod.

Edit:This fixed itself after I loaded a quick-save!

Edited February 27, 2015 by DANGER_RV1

[Wabbit]

The first time I launched with this mod, I accidentally forgot it was on and launched straight up with my 6000-something m/s dV 2.5 TWR lifter at full throttle. Needless to say, it did not end well.

[Khazar]

I have another question. I found this mod :

https://kerbalstuff.com/mod/8/Magic%20Smoke%20Industries%20Infernal%20Robotics Magic Smoke Industries Infernal Robotics.

It seems it should be possible to make variable geometry wings. Would it work with FAR ? Would it make any difference ?

[Van Disaster]

That has always worked with FAR ( ie does what variable geometry wings do ) - but generally the problem is the hinges aren't strong enough and your wings flex horribly. If someone made a nice glove to cover the wing root that might work really well.

[Khazar]

Do radial engines benefit from additional air intakes like jets do ? Putting more air intakes would allow me to go higher ?

[blowfish]

Do radial engines benefit from additional air intakes like jets do ? Putting more air intakes would allow me to go higher ?

What do you mean radial engines? If it's a rocket engine then intakes won't effect it. If it's a jet (i.e. it uses the IntakeAir resource), then more intakes will improve high altitude performance.

[Khazar]

Sorry I meant piston engines and propellers.

[blowfish]

Sorry I meant piston engines and propellers.

If they're using the stock engine modules then more intakes will help. If they use FSEngine I'm quite sure - FSEngine makes thrust decrease as the air thins regardless of how many intakes you have. So if the engine in question does use FSEngine, I guess the question to ask is does it flame out (in which case intakes would help) or is it just not producing much thrust (intakes won't help).

[Khazar]

I have finally accomplished those recon missions. Thanks for help.

Now I try to drop "recon capsule" to make eva reports without landing entire plane (difficult terrain). Is there a way to launch chute on capsule that has already separated ? If I launch it in same stage as separation, I have good chance that it would fail before reaching ground. Also, would that separated capsule have sas turned on or off ?

[TheXRuler]

I have finally accomplished those recon missions. Thanks for help. Now I try to drop "recon capsule" to make eva reports without landing entire plane (difficult terrain). Is there a way to launch chute on capsule that has already separated ? If I launch it in same stage as separation, I have good chance that it would fail before reaching ground. Also, would that separated capsule have sas turned on or off ?

There are a few thing you could try.

Using the switch vessels key you could drop the pod, switch to it, deploy the chute and activate sas (though i don't know why you'd need that), then switch back to the plane. This just creates one possible danger. If you exceed a certain distance (it used to be 2.5 km, but it seems to be 25 km for me now) from the capsule before it lands on the ground it will be deleted, and treated by the game as destroyed.

To avoid this you could either circle the drop-pod until it lands, or you could use SIT89's wonderful [thread=80292]FMRS[/thread]. A mod very well suited to what you have planned, although it was not originally intended for this.

Hope this was of some help at least.

[Van Disaster]

25km sounds like a mod's got at it. I knocked up something to drop little rovers to act as RT relays in 0.25, you need to be able to fly pretty slowly to circle until they're landed but if you drop them at ~600m altitude ( any lower and the chute might not deploy in time ) it's not too bad. Put the chute deployment in the action group to launch a pod and it'll deploy as it's detaching.

[WuphonsReach]

There are a few limits in KSP:

#1 - the 2.5km physics limit - something farther away then 2.5km from the currently controlled vessel goes "on rails" (which means vastly simplified simulation, no physics calculations, etc.)

#2 - Anything below ~27km in an atmosphere is considered destroyed (may vary by world, but Kerbin is 27km) if it was "on rails" when it dipped below the 27km altitude.

For #2 situation on Kerbin - Look into the Stage Recovery mod - you won't be able to do science, but you do recover anything that re-enters while "on rails" with enough fuel / heat shields / parachutes to satisfy Stage Recovery calculations.

Trying to drop science pods out of planes means circling at 600-800m of altitude over terrain, staying within 2.5km of both the terrain, the landing point, and both vessels...

[blowfish]

You can do science with FMRS, but only once. The key is to make the dropped pod your primary vessel. Make sure your dropship is flying stably, then, upon separation, focus on the payload - FMRS gives you 10 seconds to select which vessel is the main one. Let the plane fly out of physics range, land the payload safely, then switch back to the plane and land it. Recover, and you should be brought back to the payload with no restrictions. This won't work if you're trying to do multiple drops of course.

[Khazar]

Thanks again. This 2,5 restriction is the problem for sure. I have quite maneuverable plane now and keeping distance below 2,5 km won't be a problem, just never thought I need to .

This knowledge will make my life so much easier. I have to get eva reports of mountain, and so far my only option seemed to land near the mountain and take a looong walk.

I assume that after dropped pad lands safely on the ground it is considered landed and won't disappear or get destroyed If I fly away more than 2,5 km from it ?

[Wabbit]

If something is on the ground, it is considered as "landed", and will not despawn.

[futrtrubl]

Thanks again. This 2,5 restriction is the problem for sure. I have quite maneuverable plane now and keeping distance below 2,5 km won't be a problem, just never thought I need to .

This knowledge will make my life so much easier. I have to get eva reports of mountain, and so far my only option seemed to land near the mountain and take a looong walk.

I assume that after dropped pad lands safely on the ground it is considered landed and won't disappear or get destroyed If I fly away more than 2,5 km from it ?

I've had that problem too. My solution was to land nearby and then jet drive the plane up the mountain carefully. Taking off afterwards is not so difficult.

[Goliathan]

So I posted a thread about this Here. But I've narrowed the problem down to FAR and NEAR (and yes I've tried both). Basically every time I launch I crash within a few seconds due to a series of NaN errors. Is there a known workaround for this? Is it caused by come sort of incompatibility?

[WRN 21:18:14.780] FAR Error: Aerodynamic force = NaN AC Loc = NaN AoA = -1.5707963267949

MAC = 0.519 B_2 = 1.825 sweepAngle = 1

MidChordSweep = 0 MidChordSweepSideways = 0

at StandardCtrlSrf

[WRN 21:18:14.780] FAR Error: Aerodynamic force = NaN AC Loc = NaN AoA = -1.5707963267949

MAC = 0.519 B_2 = 1.825 sweepAngle = 1

MidChordSweep = 0 MidChordSweepSideways = 0

at StandardCtrlSrf

[WRN 21:18:14.780] FAR Error: Aerodynamic force = NaN AC Loc = NaN AoA = -1.5707963267949

MAC = 0.519 B_2 = 1.825 sweepAngle = 1

MidChordSweep = 0 MidChordSweepSideways = 0

at StandardCtrlSrf

[WRN 21:18:14.780] FAR Error: Aerodynamic force = NaN AC Loc = NaN AoA = -1.5707963267949

MAC = 0.519 B_2 = 1.825 sweepAngle = 1

MidChordSweep = 0 MidChordSweepSideways = 0

at StandardCtrlSrf

[WRN 21:18:14.780] FAR Error: Aerodynamic force = NaN AC Loc = NaN AoA = -1.5707963267949

MAC = 1.311 B_2 = 1.388 sweepAngle = 0.974964687851752

MidChordSweep = 27.6 MidChordSweepSideways = 0.111888451949879

at R8winglet

[WRN 21:18:14.780] FAR Error: Aerodynamic force = NaN AC Loc = NaN AoA = -1.5707963267949

MAC = 1.311 B_2 = 1.388 sweepAngle = 0.974964687851752

MidChordSweep = 27.6 MidChordSweepSideways = 0.111888451949879

at R8winglet

[WRN 21:18:14.780] FAR Error: Aerodynamic force = NaN AC Loc = NaN AoA = -1.5707963267949

MAC = 1.311 B_2 = 1.388 sweepAngle = 0.974964687851752

MidChordSweep = 27.6 MidChordSweepSideways = 0.111888451949879

at R8winglet

[WRN 21:18:14.780] FAR Error: Aerodynamic force = NaN AC Loc = NaN AoA = -1.5707963267949

MAC = 1.311 B_2 = 1.388 sweepAngle = 0.974964687851752

MidChordSweep = 27.6 MidChordSweepSideways = 0.111888451949879

at R8winglet

[WRN 21:18:14.780] FAR Error: Aerodynamic force = NaN AC Loc = NaN AoA = -1.5707963267949

MAC = 0.519 B_2 = 1.825 sweepAngle = 1

MidChordSweep = 0 MidChordSweepSideways = 0

at StandardCtrlSrf

[WRN 21:18:14.780] FAR Error: Aerodynamic force = NaN AC Loc = NaN AoA = -1.5707963267949

MAC = 0.519 B_2 = 1.825 sweepAngle = 1

MidChordSweep = 0 MidChordSweepSideways = 0

at StandardCtrlSrf

[WRN 21:18:14.780] FAR Error: Aerodynamic force = NaN AC Loc = NaN AoA = -1.5707963267949

MAC = 0.519 B_2 = 1.825 sweepAngle = 1

MidChordSweep = 0 MidChordSweepSideways = 0

at StandardCtrlSrf

[WRN 21:18:14.780] FAR Error: Aerodynamic force = NaN AC Loc = NaN AoA = -1.5707963267949

MAC = 0.519 B_2 = 1.825 sweepAngle = 1

MidChordSweep = 0 MidChordSweepSideways = 0

at StandardCtrlSrf

[WRN 21:18:14.781] FAR Error: Aerodynamic force = NaN AC Loc = NaN AoA = -1.5707963267949

MAC = 0.519 B_2 = 1.825 sweepAngle = 1

MidChordSweep = 0 MidChordSweepSideways = 0

at StandardCtrlSrf

[WRN 21:18:14.781] FAR Error: Aerodynamic force = NaN AC Loc = NaN AoA = -1.5707963267949

MAC = 0.519 B_2 = 1.825 sweepAngle = 1

MidChordSweep = 0 MidChordSweepSideways = 0

at StandardCtrlSrf

[WRN 21:18:14.781] FAR Error: Aerodynamic force = NaN AC Loc = NaN AoA = -1.5707963267949

MAC = 0.519 B_2 = 1.825 sweepAngle = 1

MidChordSweep = 0 MidChordSweepSideways = 0

at StandardCtrlSrf

[WRN 21:18:14.781] FAR Error: Aerodynamic force = NaN AC Loc = NaN AoA = -1.5707963267949

MAC = 0.519 B_2 = 1.825 sweepAngle = 1

MidChordSweep = 0 MidChordSweepSideways = 0

at StandardCtrlSrf

[WRN 21:18:14.781] FAR Error: Aerodynamic force = NaN AC Loc = NaN AoA = -1.5707963267949

MAC = 0.519 B_2 = 1.825 sweepAngle = 1

MidChordSweep = 0 MidChordSweepSideways = 0

at StandardCtrlSrf

[WRN 21:18:14.781] FAR Error: Aerodynamic force = NaN AC Loc = NaN AoA = -1.5707963267949

MAC = 0.519 B_2 = 1.825 sweepAngle = 1

MidChordSweep = 0 MidChordSweepSideways = 0

at StandardCtrlSrf

[WRN 21:18:14.781] FAR Error: Aerodynamic force = NaN AC Loc = NaN AoA = -1.5707963267949

MAC = 0.519 B_2 = 1.825 sweepAngle = 1

MidChordSweep = 0 MidChordSweepSideways = 0

at StandardCtrlSrf

[WRN 21:18:14.781] FAR Error: Aerodynamic force = NaN AC Loc = NaN AoA = -1.5707963267949

MAC = 0.519 B_2 = 1.825 sweepAngle = 1

MidChordSweep = 0 MidChordSweepSideways = 0

at StandardCtrlSrf

[EXC 21:18:14.782] ArithmeticException: NAN

System.Math.Sign (Double value)

ferram4.FARWingInteraction.UpdateUpstreamValuesFromWingModules (System.Collections.Generic.List`1 wingModules, System.Collections.Generic.List`1 associatedInfluences, Double directionalInfluence, Double thisWingAoA)

ferram4.FARWingInteraction.CalculateEffectsOfUpstreamWing (Double thisWingAoA, Double thisWingMachNumber, Vector3d parallelInPlaneLocal, System.Double& ACweight, System.Double& ACshift, System.Double& ClIncrementFromRear)

ferram4.FARWingAerodynamicModel.CalculateWingCamberInteractions (Double MachNumber, Double AoA, System.Double& ACshift, System.Double& ACweight)

ferram4.FARWingAerodynamicModel.DetermineStall (Double MachNumber, Double AoA, System.Double& ACshift, System.Double& ACweight)

ferram4.FARWingAerodynamicModel.CalculateCoefficients (Double MachNumber, Double AoA, Double skinFrictionCoefficient)

ferram4.FARWingAerodynamicModel.DoCalculateForces (Vector3d velocity, Double MachNumber, Double AoA, Double failureForceScaling)

ferram4.FARWingAerodynamicModel.DoCalculateForces (Vector3d velocity, Double MachNumber, Double AoA)

ferram4.FARWingAerodynamicModel.CalculateForces (Vector3d velocity, Double MachNumber, Double AoA)

MuMech.MechJebFARExt.partModuleUpdate (.PartModule pm)

MuMech.VesselState.AnalyzeParts (.Vessel vessel, MuMech.EngineInfo einfo, MuMech.IntakeInfo iinfo)

MuMech.VesselState.Update (.Vessel vessel)

MuMech.MechJebCore.FixedUpdate ()

[ERR 21:18:14.782] Invalid parameter because it was infinity or nan.

[ERR 21:18:14.782] Invalid parameter because it was infinity or nan.

[Crzyrndm]

Someone's dropping a divide by zero error into the main flight calculations ([LOG 11:10:39.418] Look rotation viewing vector is zero) right before FAR trips up (understandably). Whether that divide by zero originates from FAR I couldn't tell you. Try adding mods one at a time on a fresh install (starting with FAR) to narrow down the culprit.

PS

The player.log is much more useful for debugging

• Linux: The log is written to /home/user/.config/unity3d/Squad/Kerbal Space Program/Player.log

[Goliathan]

Someone's dropping a divide by zero error into the main flight calculations ([LOG 11:10:39.418] Look rotation viewing vector is zero) right before FAR trips up (understandably). Whether that divide by zero originates from FAR I couldn't tell you. Try adding mods one at a time on a fresh install (starting with FAR) to narrow down the culprit.

PS

The player.log is much more useful for debugging

Thanks, I'll try injecting them one at a time until it crashes. The full .log is available in the thread I linked, but I'll link it again here if it helps. Complete Log

[irbisgreif]

I have an odd problem with my cargo bays not shielding objects within - I'm probably doing something wrong or have a conflicting mod that I'm not aware of.

Anyway, the bay seems to report that it is shielding 5 objects (in this case) within the bay during ship design, but once I go to fly around, it only says 1 object is shielded. As I accelerate to take off, aerodynamic failures wreck the inside of the cargo bay and it adds significant drag as if it were hanging open.

What logs are the ones needed to track down what's happening here?

[tetryds]

I have an odd problem with my cargo bays not shielding objects within - I'm probably doing something wrong or have a conflicting mod that I'm not aware of.

Anyway, the bay seems to report that it is shielding 5 objects (in this case) within the bay during ship design, but once I go to fly around, it only says 1 object is shielded. As I accelerate to take off, aerodynamic failures wreck the inside of the cargo bay and it adds significant drag as if it were hanging open.

What logs are the ones needed to track down what's happening here?

Just click to open then close the bays and they will shield properly.

Known old bug, unworthy to fix now as the next update probably won't have such issues.

[irbisgreif]

Just click to open then close the bays and they will shield properly.

Known old bug, unworthy to fix now as the next update probably won't have such issues.

Aha. Thank you very much. I'll give that a try after I add back in the ability to open and close these bays (the Hanger mod is overriding that).