[1.3.1] Ferram Aerospace Research: v0.15.9.1 "Liepmann" 4/2/18

[Diazo]

Seeing the issue about action groups above, this is just a heads up that the current release of my Actions Everywhere mod (version 1.4a) is still configured for 0.90 FAR and I have not had time to update it yet.

Version 1.5 with FAR 0.15 support should be out sometime tonight.

I just want to make sure people are not reporting the "FAR Actions" being broken when they are actually added by my mod, not by FAR itself.

D.

[Mipe]

@ferram4, @Hodo: I see now, replacing the engine with twin side engines and adding a tail indeed fixed yaw issues, however I've got another issue to deal with now - it's hard to keep the plane level. I need a plane that can fly well without the help of SAS, since I need a scientist to pilot it (for experiment resetting).

How can I ensure the plane will keep level and not freak out when I change pitch?

[Hodo]

@ferram4, @Hodo: I see now, replacing the engine with twin side engines and adding a tail indeed fixed yaw issues, however I've got another issue to deal with now - it's hard to keep the plane level. I need a plane that can fly well without the help of SAS, since I need a scientist to pilot it (for experiment resetting).

How can I ensure the plane will keep level and not freak out when I change pitch?

You have two options for that.

1- Reduce the pitch angle of the elevators. I think default they are 20, reduce that to about 12-15 and that will help a fair bit.

2- Download PID Tuner.

There is a third option..

You may have designed the craft wrong and have to much lift at or before your CoM.

[Mr Shifty]

starving across the scholars of war,

burning jazz,

who were expelled from Battery of teaheaded hipsters burning Arkansas and children brought

them down shuddering hysterical naked,

who pover through the supernatural darkness, staggering on benzedrine

until the winter dusks of wheels and kind leaping winter dusks of marijuana for the endless over the best mind listening in the motions in the scholars of war,

who pover the tops of wheels and children brough the academies with radiant cool eyes

Edited May 11, 2015 by Mr Shifty

[Mipe]

You have two options for that.

1- Reduce the pitch angle of the elevators. I think default they are 20, reduce that to about 12-15 and that will help a fair bit.

2- Download PID Tuner.

There is a third option..

You may have designed the craft wrong and have to much lift at or before your CoM.

What do you mean by angle of elevators? When I right click elevons, there are many options, and the VAB rotate tool doesn't show me the angle.

Well, in any case this plane is a mess, now it keeps rolling to left...

[taniel0401]

It might be a bug... but the action groups assigned to control surfaces don't seem to be working

yeah.... I messed up, forgot to activate the spoiler/flap setting in the tweakables menu xD

[tetryds]

@Mipe:

Notice how your wingtips are generating a LOT of downforce.

That is certainly causing flexing, and since stock KSP joints don't flex equally, there is what is causing your yaw.

But as it was said many times, it would not be a problem if you had your vertical stabilizer placed properly.

[FourGreenFields]

I am not sure wether it is related to FAR, or wether its an unrelated bug. Not very active on the forum so I havent read about it in any case.

I've build a single-engine jet plane capable of reaching Mach 4 at sea level. Shortly after, it falls apart.

The bug is that sometimes parts (the most noticable one being the cockpit ofcourse) keep accelerating. Sometimes even while climbing up. At Mach 4 and more, while being totally un-aerodynamic.

Is that related to FAR, or is that a different problem? Downloaded FAR just today, so pretty sure it is up to date.

EDIT: I can provide screenshots if nessecary, just tell me what exactly you want to see.

[amankd]

i have been wanting a plugin that adds basic ground effect flight charicteristis, AKA increased lift, reduced drag .ect, but without the other baggage far brings, would this be possible? and if so how?

[ferram4]

@FourGreenFields: Known issue, mostly fixed in my dev builds. Hopefully there'll be a bugfix update soon to address that and a few other issues.

@amankd: Easy enough if I can handle wings on an aggregate basis it's simple enough using the standard "treat the ground as a mirror for the wing vortices to create a streamline along the ground." The trick is handling wings on an aggregate basis, which I still haven't figured out how to do.

[Mipe]

@Mipe:

Notice how your wingtips are generating a LOT of downforce.

That is certainly causing flexing, and since stock KSP joints don't flex equally, there is what is causing your yaw.

But as it was said many times, it would not be a problem if you had your vertical stabilizer placed properly.

I see. So I should grab the Kerbal Joint Reinforcement mod as well? I thought it affected kerbal joints only. Jokes aside, I still can't seem to come up with a stable low tech plane. Even when I fly with a partially stable plane, I can't seem to slow down enough to land safely on the island airstrip. I always overshoot it, then as I attempt to turn around and slow down, I just tumble into water. I just want a nice, stable and slow plane to do some biome hopping with a scientist, dammit!

I guess my plane designing skills leave much to be desired.

[Pirke]

If I'm flying 1000 m/s at 15 km altitude, and the vessel breaks apart and only the cockpit survives, is it then normal that on the way down to the ground at about -10 degrees pitch, the cockpit keeps accelerating? I would expect it to slow down due to increased drag in the lower atmosphere... but it just keeps accelerating all the way down.

[Bakase]

I see. So I should grab the Kerbal Joint Reinforcement mod as well? I thought it affected kerbal joints only. Jokes aside, I still can't seem to come up with a stable low tech plane. Even when I fly with a partially stable plane, I can't seem to slow down enough to land safely on the island airstrip. I always overshoot it, then as I attempt to turn around and slow down, I just tumble into water. I just want a nice, stable and slow plane to do some biome hopping with a scientist, dammit!

I guess my plane designing skills leave much to be desired.

You could include some spoilers on the craft to help bleed off speed.

[ferram4]

@Pirke: What do I say two posts above yours?

[Cerebrate]

A quick coding-against-FAR question, if you'll indulge me:

I'm updating a mod that reflects into FAR to grab some parameters to work with nuFAR. I can get everything I used to get through FARAPI now, except for the Mach number. So --

Can I safely treat vessel.mach as accurate under nuFAR, or is there somewhere else I should be getting this?

Thanks,

-c

[FourGreenFields]

If I'm flying 1000 m/s at 15 km altitude, and the vessel breaks apart and only the cockpit survives, is it then normal that on the way down to the ground at about -10 degrees pitch, the cockpit keeps accelerating? I would expect it to slow down due to increased drag in the lower atmosphere... but it just keeps accelerating all the way down.

You might want to read my post, same page, and ferrams answer.

EDIT: And ferram ninja'ed me

[Pirke]

My bad! I didn't refresh before posting...

[Postron]

Hi, I just wanted to say that ckan doesn't know this depends on modular flight integrator (although reading the OP certainly helps

Anyway thanks for the great mod.

[Red Iron Crown]

Hi, I just wanted to say that ckan doesn't know this depends on modular flight integrator (although reading the OP certainly helps

Anyway thanks for the great mod.

There's an updated config for it on CKAN waiting to be approved.

[Gfurst]

Then here are the tests I want you to do:

Find data on a real life plane. Build a replica of said plane. Test plane in flight, compare Cd values from FAR to stated data. When I have data to work with, then I can fix any actual discrepancies. I can't code feelings.

Last I heard from NathanKell, subsonic drag was too high because he couldn't get a Bonanza up to its rated top speed. This is also consistent with my findings given that I've tended to allow slightly higher subsonic drag on planes in order to achieve proper subsonic performance on command pods.

Alright, its very hard build approximate replicas of planes, specially because of limitation wing design/ aspect ratio, and no frontal propeller engines. But I take upon the challenge.

I'm saying feelings cause, being a apprentice pilot my self and aircraft maintenance, I'm aware that most of what goes up there goes on feelings. If something doesn't feel right, than its probably not.

For example a feeling, the feeling that a non-delta wing design could go super sonic is very wrong one, going on a speed like with regular planes and even swept wings should feel like a constant punch on the stomach.

So for actual planes I can only give reference to something like the Cessna above, or similar.

Totally unrelated, but I saw this pic while browsing and it really funny..

[tetryds]

@Gfurst:

Well, this airplane did that within 27kN of thrust:

Maybe the propellers you are using are a bit overpowered?

[aman kd]

i have alwasy like ground effect flight and i was wondering if there would be a way to have the stock aero, but have a different aero model when within the wingspan of the craft from the ground, onw that increases lift and reduces drag, i cant code but i am sure that this would be possible, would this be able to be done? if so how difficult?

[Svm420]

i have alwasy like ground effect flight and i was wondering if there would be a way to have the stock aero, but have a different aero model when within the wingspan of the craft from the ground, onw that increases lift and reduces drag, i cant code but i am sure that this would be possible, would this be able to be done? if so how difficult?

i have been wanting a plugin that adds basic ground effect flight charicteristis, AKA increased lift, reduced drag .ect, but without the other baggage far brings, would this be possible? and if so how?

Do you have 2 accounts?

[Hodo]

Alright, its very hard build approximate replicas of planes, specially because of limitation wing design/ aspect ratio, and no frontal propeller engines. But I take upon the challenge.

I'm saying feelings cause, being a apprentice pilot my self and aircraft maintenance, I'm aware that most of what goes up there goes on feelings. If something doesn't feel right, than its probably not.

For example a feeling, the feeling that a non-delta wing design could go super sonic is very wrong one, going on a speed like with regular planes and even swept wings should feel like a constant punch on the stomach.

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f90/cessnapilot72/Cessnazu2.jpg

So for actual planes I can only give reference to something like the Cessna above, or similar.

Totally unrelated, but I saw this pic while browsing and it really funny..

http://qph.is.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-ec721c01689e7767572b14a9568dae68?convert_to_webp=true

You have all the parts you need to build those aircraft. I know I did before with a few mods, Pwings, KAX and Firespitter to name 3 that give you everything you need to build a Cessna like in that picture.

And that was a hasty 20min build in RO back in .23.5. But the point is if you need more wing parts or options I can't suggest B9Procedural wings more. It is truly perfect for FAR.15 with its options to change the leading and trailing edge shape and length.

[Gfurst]

@Gfurst:

Well, this airplane did that within 27kN of thrust:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/05/Bell_X-1_in_flight.jpg

Maybe the propellers you are using are a bit overpowered?

Point taken, but this aircraft has extremely thin wing profile, making it probably unstable in lower speeds, has slightly swept back wings that should. But still going trans-sonic in this really would feel like a punch in the stomach. And it should indeed experience huge amounts of drag. 27kN is quite a lot, I remember in my previous test I was around 10~15kN I think, the MRS smaller jets, that roughly scales down from the regular jet engine.

You have all the parts you need to build those aircraft. I know I did before with a few mods, Pwings, KAX and Firespitter to name 3 that give you everything you need to build a Cessna like in that picture.

http://i.imgur.com/Vmuc8yb.jpg

And that was a hasty 20min build in RO back in .23.5. But the point is if you need more wing parts or options I can't suggest B9Procedural wings more. It is truly perfect for FAR.15 with its options to change the leading and trailing edge shape and length.

KAX is something to consider, Firespitter hasn't been updated in like ever, so can roughly be considered balanced. B9 wings, sounds promising. But considering nuFAR has been released only a couple of days is best to take some time for mods to catch up.

By definition of the FAR wings, they may not represent what it actually looks like.

I'm drifting, anyway, thanks to family and girlfriend, I don't think I'll playing too much this weekend, mothers day tomorrow. Report back when I can.