[1.3.1] Ferram Aerospace Research: v0.15.9.1 "Liepmann" 4/2/18

[illectro]

I've had a couple of wings explode at relatively low speeds and gentle flight, the logs says they collided with the launch pad - is this related to structural failures or something else?

[ferram4]

That sounds more like a physics engine wackiness-induced failure. When parts change velocity enough in a single frame, it triggers the "crash" explosion thing, but if there's nothing that it has collided with it seems to default to the launch pad; KJR had an issue with this in earlier versions, perhaps that's the cause again? If that's the case, I think reducing the angular drive parameters in the config.xml should fix it, at the cost of slightly less stiff part connections.

[Endersmens]

I have been using FAR and the KSO for a long time. I've personally never had a problem. I have even managed a full on DRE / FAR re-entry, landing at KSC on the runway carrying a retrieved satellite without changing a single setting...

Thank you, I will try it out by itself and if it doesn't work I'll try a config i found

[illectro]

That sounds more like a physics engine wackiness-induced failure. When parts change velocity enough in a single frame, it triggers the "crash" explosion thing, but if there's nothing that it has collided with it seems to default to the launch pad; KJR had an issue with this in earlier versions, perhaps that's the cause again? If that's the case, I think reducing the angular drive parameters in the config.xml should fix it, at the cost of slightly less stiff part connections.

Here's an example, there are a couple of small structural wings protuding in front of the air intakes and those both explode before the landing gear decides to destroy the whole aircraft.

[ferram4]

What?! Okay, I haven't seen anything like that happen before. That's really, really strange, and I don't know what would have caused that to happen, unfortunately. My guess would be KJR and how it affects joints, but I'm not even sure about that, since KJR's silliness tends to happen when coming out of warp or on the pad, so that seems unlikely. I am deeply confused.

[AndreyATGB]

It was entertaining to watch, I would've completely lost it and started laughing if that happened to me. Two pieces just explode then the whole thing breaks apart.

[DaMichel]

Not funny! I had experienced pretty similar spontaneous disintegrations which however happened shortly after takeoff. The reason has always been corrupted crafts due to some SPH/VAB editor and/or PWing bugs. You don't happen to have them (PWings) on your craft? Here is a old bug report as an example of what i mean. I use mostly PWings but i could imagine that some rare issues arise in stock KSP as well.

Btw. nice videos Scott. I enjoy them a lot.

[goldenpeach]

Here's an example, there are a couple of small structural wings protuding in front of the air intakes and those both explode before the landing gear decides to destroy the whole aircraft.

Are you using deadly reentry?

[R0cketC0der]

Are you using deadly reentry?

He is. Why?

[Starwaster]

He is. Why?

Probably because DRE used to have the same problem and he's wondering if it's not really fixed or resurfaced....

[MiniMoose12]

Why must the stupid "high atmostpheric preasure" thing be in this mod.. I played it a few versions ago and it wasn't a problem... All my ships break apart at 30,000m up.... Is there a config value I can edit or something to fix this. I love everything besides that stupid new "feature"....

[BudgetHedgehog]

All my ships break apart at 30,000m up....

Then you're piloting/designing your ship wrong. But yes, it can be changed in the setting but more than that, I'm afraid I can't tell you as I don't really 'do' planes.

[taniwha]

Why must the stupid "high atmostpheric preasure" thing be in this mod.. I played it a few versions ago and it wasn't a problem... All my ships break apart at 30,000m up.... Is there a config value I can edit or something to fix this. I love everything besides that stupid new "feature"....

Why don't you learn how to build and fly planes? FAR is about learning to deal with aerodynamics, including the wind ripping your plane apart, with cheaper to-orbit costs as the prize.

As a tip: when you're at 30km altitude, you do not suddenly pull up. Instead, you just go faster. And faster. You push your pariapsis up out of the ground then keep pushing until it becomes your apoapsis above atmosphere. Admittedly, this can be tricky with stock engines (especially FAR modifed), but Tavarios Pizza and Aerospace makes this moderately easy. Check out my vid for a demonstration of what I mean. It's long, but I have circularized within the first four minutes.

Yes, I used MJ, but only for information and Smart A.S.S. (I have gotten that ship into orbit with a joystick, though), and throttle control (avoiding flame-outs). I haven't tried it with the lastest FAR yet, but I suspect it will be just fine as my sub-sonic plane can handle 15g turns no trouble.

Remember, in aerodynamics, less is more

Edited May 2, 2014 by taniwha

[ferram4]

@MiniMoose12: That feature was always intended to be there, it's only the fairly recent additions of KJR and the stock joint reinforcement that have prevented rockets and planes from coming apart. If you look back through Scott Manley's videos you can find an earlier version of KSP where he attempts to recreate Operation Credible Sport and his plane comes apart from aerodynamic forces all over the place. That was always intended, and will always be intended.

Regardless, if you don't like it in the space center scene you can access the FAR debug menu, where under the "cheats" option you can turn off aerodynamic failures.

[Klingon Admiral]

@ ferram4, Forget my previous problem, it was just a kraken attack FAR has had nothing to do with.

But then again, why does this rocket get in an uncontrollable roll between 3 and 13 kilometres:

[icecubecookie]

hey ferram i was wondering if this is a bug with cargo bays and shielding not working when in flight with version 0.13.3

parts used are B9 aerospace fuselage cargo bay - updated with the KSP 0.23.5 community patch

edit : the no shielding thing is causing my shielded parts to fail due to aerodynamic stresses and all shielded parts are also getting aerodynamic loads, no red texts in the debug menu so i have no idea whats going on (unless i missed out something)

Edited May 2, 2014 by icecubecookie
some aditional details

[ferram4]

@Klingon Admiral: That would probably be due to the boosters either imparting a slight roll or something flexing in the upper stage.

@icecubecookie: Known issue with the B9 Mk2 Cargo Bays. FAR needs cargo bays to be built with colliders in the doors in order for it to determine if the bay is open or not. Those particular bays do not have colliders in the doors, so they can never be detected as closed. This is an issue that must be fixed on the part's side, there's nothing I can do about it.

[nikumai]

Hey ferram, I'm wondering how I'd go about making dynamic pressure stronger, particularly on wings. I was staring at the cfg earlier almost completely lost. I really do enjoy seeing wings tear off but I'd like to have it happen at somewhat lower speeds.

Edited May 2, 2014 by nikumai

[taniwha]

nikumai: do your flying on Eve or Jool

[Klingon Admiral]

@ferram4 Turns out that the Delta Deluxe Winglets were responsible for introducing the roll. Replacing them with Structural Wings solved the problem. But I don't get why these winglets would cause such an extreme roll for no apparent reason.

[Sokar408]

I remember being able to right click parts and see the current amount of drag on the part. However after the latest update I can't see it anymore. Is this a change or have I been fiddling where I shouldn't again?

[BudgetHedgehog]

I remember being able to right click parts and see the current amount of drag on the part. However after the latest update I can't see it anymore. Is this a change or have I been fiddling where I shouldn't again?

It was a debug option accidentally left in by ferram. Sure, it was nice to look at but ultimately, it wasn't intended for release.

[Sokar408]

It was a debug option accidentally left in by ferram. Sure, it was nice to look at but ultimately, it wasn't intended for release.

Damn! I really liked it. Is there any way of getting it displayed again?

[BudgetHedgehog]

Install the version of FAR that had it?

[Sokar408]

Install the version of FAR that had it?

Baah!! Crossing fingers for an editable updating in the cfg/UI someday