[1.3.1] Ferram Aerospace Research: v0.15.9.1 "Liepmann" 4/2/18

[Taverius]

I just got FAR and haven't used it yet, but I am wondering how much it effects aero breaking in respect to mechjebs aero breaking predictor.

Breaks it right now. I've had a chat before with r4m0n about making MJ2 and FAR talk to each other about basic drag values, I mighty have some time in the next couple of weeks to actually do it.

[Itsdavyjones]

Breaks it right now. I've had a chat before with r4m0n about making MJ2 and FAR talk to each other about basic drag values, I mighty have some time in the next couple of weeks to actually do it.

Ok thanks for the info, now I just need to decide to keep far at this time, or get rid of it to use the calculator for my next attempt at a grand tour, or just wait a few weeks before I make that decision and just have fun in the mean time.

[CoriW]

Does this plugin make payload fairings and cargo bays work properly?

It is set up to identify parts labelled "fairing" or "cargo bay" and apply the proper effects to them and the other parts the affect.

So if I have fairings from the Fairing Factory mod, and I've named them for example "1m Fairing Nosecone", will it recognize it properly? Just making sure before I get the plugin.

[Van Disaster]

Ferram: To be fair that thing is mostly just the cab and wheels, the frame is I-beams and struts basically & I did very carefully tweak the ventral mount to get CoM right. Regardless, yes, that wasn't the most realistic of launches I would have sent the thing up in a plane if I had a fuselage big enough - you can be rest assured that trials with strapping something similar to the back of a plane gave a shortfall of about 700m/s...

[DYJ]

Thanks for the help getting this set up, FAR support will be in the next version.

[ferram4]

@Laphtiya: Okay, that is a very awesome looking shuttle.

I think you're right about the first problem; I've had that happen myself when playing around with STS and Buran-style shuttles. An alternative is that your stage-SRBs-and-cut engines routine isn't running fast enough; if that is the case I'd suggest setting SRB separation and toggling all engines to an action group and activate that just before the SRBs burn out. Then all you have to do is activate it again to restart the engines and continue into space.

The second problem isn't that your shuttle is unstable; it's actually far too stable! Try putting a pair of control canards just behind the cockpit and see if that helps. Keep in mind that you've got those heavy tanks full of rocket fuel near the back when it's full; where does the CoM end up when they're empty?

Also: more paragraphs please.

@Itsdavyjones: Since MJ assumes that the stock drag model is in effect, and since FAR sets the effect of the stock drag model to zero (except for parachutes, for now at least) MJ can't predict FAR aerobraking. As a result of the huge amount of variation in drag and lift as a function of the vehicle's orientation with respect to the airflow, velocity and Mach number aerobraking predictions can be very difficult to handle.

You can always use KSP's built-in aerobraking calculator called quicksave, try something, and quickload if it doesn't work.

@CoriW: That should work, I don't see why it wouldn't. If it doesn't seem to work properly, say something and I'll try and track down the problem.

@DYJ: I'm so excited.

[Laphtiya]

@Laphtiya: Okay, that is a very awesome looking shuttle.

I think you're right about the first problem; I've had that happen myself when playing around with STS and Buran-style shuttles. An alternative is that your stage-SRBs-and-cut engines routine isn't running fast enough; if that is the case I'd suggest setting SRB separation and toggling all engines to an action group and activate that just before the SRBs burn out. Then all you have to do is activate it again to restart the engines and continue into space.

The second problem isn't that your shuttle is unstable; it's actually far too stable! Try putting a pair of control canards just behind the cockpit and see if that helps. Keep in mind that you've got those heavy tanks full of rocket fuel near the back when it's full; where does the CoM end up when they're empty?

Also: more paragraphs please.

Sorry about that, my imac at work has a huge screen so I have to guess abit on how much my paragraphs get I'll try better next time

TOO stable? I didn't think that would be possible from my previous designs. If that's so I could reduce the size of the fuel tanks as to be honest they are not really needed I have fuel to spare, I did design it for 200+k but currently I am only at about 100k for my space station so I think I could lose some of the fuel.

Also thanks for checking it out, have you flown it yourself? I'll try that keybinding method to cut the power and detatch SRBs before complete drainage and let you know how it goes.

EDIT:

I added the Standard Canard to just behind the CMD module, it was slightly better but not a great deal. I attempted with a max fuel load and zero fuel it didn't make much of a difference, all I can say is I managed to get the nose up slightly when engaging the angled engines on full power however this send my speed over 200m/s not really a good speed for landing wouldn't you say? However it made take off slightly more sensitive but I manged to sort that out. The Keybinding worked btw it was simply because the SAS trying to control the rocket back to the original setting (nooby error). I'll try different Canards to see what gives the best effect, you're also welcome to keep the design (as is everyone on the forums), hoping that I can use it someday to launch sats and probes in the future

Edited May 20, 2013 by Laphtiya

[taniwha]

ferram4: I don't know if it's MJ2 or FAR, but using the small intakes and jet engines from TV aerospace, MJ2's throttle control cuts the throttle even though I have 400-500% ARM according to the FAR flight data display Here is the craft file. I'm pretty sure it's just stock + TV aerospace + MJ2. And a screenshot shoing MJ cutting the throttle even though I apparently have plenty of air:

For those that want to play with it: I can get it into a 72km orbit with 500m/s delta-v remaining Deorbit (using deadly reentry) is just a matter of taking it very carefully. All control is via pod torque. Unless you are very good, smart-a.s.s. is needed for control as it wants to pitch down (probably because of the belly mounted parachute).

[Gauss H2K]

I just started using this mod, and I'm having a little trouble adjusting to the more realistic aerodynamics. If I could get a tutorial of some kind, of basically how to fly certain planes at certain speeds at certain altitudes, that would be great. I'm a visual learner, and would appreciate videos and pictures much better than raw data.

Also I've created this SSTO, I would like to know how well my design works as I currently lack the piloting skill to fly it.

[MR4Y]

Some FAR helper items have no explanation at the help. Things like the AoA Limiter.

[camlost]

I just started using this mod, and I'm having a little trouble adjusting to the more realistic aerodynamics. If I could get a tutorial of some kind, of basically how to fly certain planes at certain speeds at certain altitudes, that would be great. I'm a visual learner, and would appreciate videos and pictures much better than raw data.

Also I've created this SSTO, I would like to know how well my design works as I currently lack the piloting skill to fly it.

I looked at your craft and here's the problems I found so far:

1. You need more wings to generate lift

2. The landing gear config is wrong. The rear landing gear should always be just a little behind CoM. Current state it will never take off

3. You need more pitching authority. In FAR, the CoL of wings shift to the rear like real world during supersonic flight, so trimming is always the (most difficult) problem for SSTO spaceplanes.

4. You need much more vertical stabilizers

5. You need one group of control surfaces assigned to Roll

Anyway, I find the example crafts coming with FAR pack very instructive. FAR Kaiju and Fireball should be SSTO-able.

Edited May 22, 2013 by camlost

[lobsterbark]

I have a question: If something is blocking a wing or control surface, will it still work?

[ferram4]

@tanihwa: Aware of that; I believe a.g. found the solution to that and sent me a fixed version which I will look into integrating with FAR.

@Gauss H2K: I hope to get some tutorials up eventually, but it isn't high on the list; try looking at the example vehicles and learning from them.

@MR4Y: Aware of that oversight. I should get to it soon.

@lobsterbark: They should cause the wing to stall in that situation.

[o_O]

I dont know if this is a FAR issue, but my cargo bays dont seem to shield anything inside when closed, causing alot of extra drag. Is there a proper way to attach ships into a cargo bay? I built the lander first then attached a cargo plane to it using plates and struts. Is the cargo actually being shielded despite saying "isShielded:False"?

When they are open the bay doors shield the wings and everything else, causing the plane to fall out of the air, which almost makes sense.

In any case I'm having a good time. Its surprising how moving the engines and wings around slightly can have such a big impact of performance.

Edited May 23, 2013 by o_O

[ferram4]

That means that you're using a cargo bay that has its animation defined opposite the way that the code expects. Further, if the wings outside the plane are being shielded when the bay is open that means that something is very wrong with the cargo bay code. Which cargo bay is this, and could you provide a link to the mod so I can check out the problems?

[Van Disaster]

3. You need more pitching authority. In FAR, the CoL of wings shift to the rear like real world during supersonic flight, so trimming is always the (most difficult) problem for SSTO spaceplanes.

I've found this is best done by shifting fuel around rather than attempt aerodynamic compromises. I have actually got a working variable incidence wing, but just moving fuel using TAC fuel balancer is a more sane idea. Just add a tank or two towards the front of the plane you can empty & fill on demand, if your TWR is low enough that you need to retrim that much then it'll have burned enough off to make a difference by 10km alt.

[taniwha]

ferram4: thanks. It was a tad frustrating initially, but since things still work out in the end, it's only a minor annoyance.

[zzz]

What about .20, is it still work?

[Nibb31]

Try it and tell us.

[taniwha]

It works (at least for rockets), but if you just naively install it, you'll wind up with a bunch of duplicate parts. Also, the VAB (and probably SPH) panel can't be closed (in linux, anyway). I haven't done much more than launch a couple of rockets yet, so I can't comment on the SPH.

[Van Disaster]

Yes, the SPH panel is jammed open also. I'm not sure if planes are working totally correctly, seeing some odd things with control surfaces sometimes. Might just be install issues, I didn't check much - too many things don't work for me to upgrade to 0.2 fully yet. Infiniglide *and* FAR taskable control surfaces...

[s20dan]

On windows all the part configs have to be edited to include PART {..part config in here.. } otherwise they won't load if installed in the 'correct' place. ...\GameData\Squad\Parts\....

If you install them in ...\Parts Then the modified part configs don't seem to load, probably because there are no model or texture files for the part.configs to access.

[ferram4]

Sorry about the delay guys, I've been carefully going through everything to make sure that I don't break anything with the new folder structure and make sure that FAR uses the new partless-plugin entry method that got added.

The new version should be up either late tonight or tomorrow, depending on how many bugs I find that require fixing.

[taniwha]

ferram4: Just a "just in case heads-up", but while poking at the FAR configs myself, I noticed that the stock winglets have some new "winglet parameter" blocks (unless they were there all along and you nuked them previously). Also, at least one stcok file (a command pod, it's->its) has typo corrections in the description.

[ferram4]

Alright, version 0.9.4 is out, bringing 0.20 compatibility and bugfixes!