[1.3.1] Ferram Aerospace Research: v0.15.9.1 "Liepmann" 4/2/18

[IronStar]

"my ship flies off screen and the camera stays"

I ve experienced this problem too. The only thing that managed to help me was clean KSP reinstall, but i seriously dont know why and even if this was what really helped.

But after this i began experiencing different problem

On many occasions FAR in flight GUI just does not appear(howewer FAR physics definitely works in all cases and Space center\VAB GUI always appears) and this bug behavior is just beyond weird. GUI doesnt work after fresh(without other mods) installation in sandbox mode- but it usually begins to if i first play career, start a new sandbox game and........once utilize parts that i ve used in career. I dont know maybe i am mad.

And FAR in flight GUI seems to violently conflict with KW rocketry- it appears if i construct rocket from scratch or load stock squad craft but should i load some pre-made craft from the KW package- the in flight GUI stops appearing again and appears ONLY if i load stock squad craft.

Mods i use except FAR:

Engineer

Toolbar(deleting it doesnt help)

Alarm clock

Protractor

Distant objects enhancement

EVE

Texture Replacer

Joint reinforcement

RealChutes

It is quite stable(disregard that on a fresh install the moment GUI may start appearing is effectively random)

There is a today output log but it is HUGE

http://www.filedropper.com/outputlog_1

Edited July 21, 2014 by IronStar

[falcon2000]

Is anyone else getting really low holding force on TR-18a decouplers? Like a basic test setup of octo, decoupler, fl100 tank, basic engine, tilted at about 10 degrees shortly after launch, and everything under the decoupler just falls apart? It doesn't seem like there would be enough drag to pull them apart, and testing with a DREC decoupler under the same parameters doesn't seem to suffer the same. Also had similar happen on reentry - ships coming down and things below a decoupler just detatch - without staging the decoupler. This is happening on 32 bit and 64 bit (due to stability I went back to 32 for now)

[Prismatech]

what make i false or have forgetr? build a little rocket (start carrere) 2 tanks ,1 engine, and a pod when start 5 km burst the rocket. pre 0.24 i have far use to stabel my rockets that i no need every time struts only when extrem un aerodynimc build. have no settings change . must i now pre setup far?

Follow mod ar used

RT2

Kethane

MJ

Debrefund

Enhancednavball

Chatterer

kwrocketery

Infernal

Realchute

all aktuell version

Edited July 21, 2014 by Prismatech

[ferram4]

@People with the camera flying away bug: This does not sound like a FAR issue to begin with, since it implies the CoM is being placed wrong, and FAR doesn't do anything to part mass. Nevertheless, reporting without the output_log.txt makes it impossible to diagnose your problems, even if they aren't with FAR.

@Tsuki: That would work, but it would require a full physics simulation to function properly, since you would need to account for changes in the craft's orientation due to aerodynamic forces. Further, aerodynamic systems tend to become chaotic if they aren't highly stable, which would make the selection of a small timestep somewhat necessary to handle it.

@IronStar: There is no reason that the FAR GUI should conflict with KW. There is no reason that a plugin should conflict with a pure part pack ever. Further, I use KW and haven't ever seen that happen.

Based on the errors in the log, it appears that you have failed to install FAR correctly, as it is not finding the necessary config files. Ensure that you have 3 FAR*.cfg files in the FerramAerospaceResearch directory, that FerramAerospaceResearch is inside GameData, and that KSP is not installed in any folder which the operating system might fail to grant it the proper permissions.

@falcon2000: That does not sound like a FAR issue, unless the decouplers are only falling apart at high dynamic pressures and at very high drag coefficients, in which case it is intended, as parts cannot take very high drag forces without failing in reality. If there are any actual issues, without an output_log.txt I cannot help you.

[Volt]

Thanks for the help everyone! I was wondering if an Apollo-style mission profile would be a little more viable with the changes in aerodynamics. I'll also give that wide-base using Infernal Robotics a try, if I can get the damn mod to work. In 0.23.5 I had no luck whatsoever in getting the parts to actually...actuate.

[experiment626]

First post ever

I used this mod extensively in last version (23.5) so included it in my massive mod update package for .24 Started a science career to test things out. Built simple chute, capsule and RT-10 solid fuel rocket. Launch took me to 60,000 meters plus altitude?!?!?! Did I miss something? Isn't a typical launch around 10,000 m (if lucky) on a 30 sec. burn???

Thought mods were screwed up. Did a complete fresh install with just FAR and repeated experiment. It is definitely FAR that causes this as it is the only mod I currently installed. Stock KSP x64 achieves around 9000m till burn out. What did I do wrong!?!? Thanks in advance.

[experiment626]

Disregard. Found a similar post that was answered. Thanks for great mod by the way.

[Grinser]

Dear ferram4,

I tried your mod after having problems dealing with some stuff.

It's interesting but not really worth dealing with BS like ModStatistics.

I'll uninstall it now, your mod and hopefully ModStatistics, because I don't want to deal with it. No I don't trust a stranger from the internet that says I opt out when I type "No" or in this case "stoptracking=true" into some config file.

You could have asked nicely and I would have given you my opinion and feedback, this way only earns you a slightly angry and very annoyed forum post.

Edited July 21, 2014 by NathanKell
Insults excised

[Northstar1989]

@Northstar1989: Thick wings have no benefit in FAR compared to thin wings at subsonic speeds because both wing types are simulated as the same thing, with the same stall angle, both at the very limits of what can be achieved from moderately thick wings. They already stall with the lift coefficient of moderately thick wings, (~1.6), and so making thickness affect performance won't make thick wings any better, it will simply make thin wings worse.

And besides that, wing thickness doesn't matter in FAR anyway. They're all the same thickness as far as the code is concerned.

OK, so basically you're saying that the wings are already so OP'd it wouldn't make sense to give thick wings a further advantage, since all wings currently perform at the limits of what can be accomplished with tings, period?

For your Duna plane, you probably want to look more into high AR wings instead of focusing on thickness, since that will provide much better L/D performance than what you're currently seeking.

I was planning on going with large, thick wings. But it looks like I'll just be going with large wings- and making the wings as thin as possible/ I feel comfortable with to save on mass...

Since gravity is so low on Duna, it doesn't make sense to go with high AR though- I'd rather have 4 or 5 times the total wing area in a low-AR "flying wing" design than in a high-AR design. Wing mass is less penalized in the 30% gravity, and drag is less of an issue since the flight speeds can safely be much lower due to the lower gravity. Instead, I'm planning to make wing-load as low as possible by building a plane with the largest possible wing area- probably even a biplane design for the 20-25% extra lift... (this will also help stabilize the extremely thin wings I plan on going with).

Additionally, I can't have *too high* of a wing-span on Duna: the bumpy terrain makes it extremely difficult to find a good landing spot for a high-AR, large-span, low-chord plane...

Regards,

Northstar

[Luckfish]

How do I build Rockets using this mod? I can always get my rockets to pitch but sometimes they don't turn with gravity, sometimes they turn the wrong way, sometimes they do turn with gravity but when I jettison the first stage the rocket will just start spining out of controll. What is happening? I've looked for guids on how to build rockets with far but I can't find anything, all the guides I've found are just for planes. I found something to do with adding wings to my rockets, but I found they make no difference and I don't want to add wings on my rockets. I use KW for rocket parts andd engines, I don't know if that makes any difference.

Many have been looking for a guide or tutorial for rocket design when using FAR. The best I found was here:

Another good method is to build a craft, save it, and do about 20+ test launches, adjusting one variable at a time and noting your dV to a stable orbit of your choosing, keeping track of what works and what doesn't on a legal pad or something.

[NathanKell]

I am now unlocking this thread and delivering a CHILL PILL ( © KSPforums).

While it is acceptable to register one's disappointment with the fact that this mod includes ModStatistics, it is not acceptable to insult other members of this forum, nor do the latter in defense of another member. For this reason those posts have been excised, as have those posts that solely refer to them.

Further, the issue of ModStatistics is a heated one right now. The actual thread, and two more threads, have been locked due to them becoming flamewars. That is not something we want to see, and we certainly don't want to see it spread to this thread.

Majiir has been in contact with Squad and with the moderators here, and we will be speaking with him more. This issue will be resolved. I ask you to please exercise patience; if you don't want ModStatistics reporting information, create that config file. I guarantee to you it works right now, and I guarantee to you we will know if it stops working. If you don't want to have ModStatistics anywhere near your system, please read the OP of the mod you are about to download; the ModStatistics license requires that the OP notify you if it is included.

Finally, a general advisory note: I find that this forum, along with many other endeavors, runs much better if we assume that others are well-intentioned, and if we begin by trying to persuade rather than by trying to excoriate. Please keep that in mind always, but especially when addressing so sensitive an issue as ModStatistics is right now.

So, about those wings...

Edited July 21, 2014 by NathanKell

[Hodo]

So now that the thread is unlocked again......

Ferram4, I have a quick question, no pictures to show yet unfortunately.

I have a craft in my RO install which is still running the previous version of FAR and .23.5 KSP.

The craft I am having problems with runs a pair of Pratt & Whitney F100 engines, generating 129kn of thrust each, it uses procedural wings and is a true delta wing design, without canards. When it reaches the speed of sound it is like it slams into a wall. I have tested at 10km altitude (RSS Real Earth scaling) and at 3.5km altitude it makes no difference. At mach 1 on the dot, it will pitch straight up and slow down, after it slows down it is completely recoverable. The CoL is higher than the CoM, but also slightly behind it. The Dry CoM is about .25m infront of the wet CoM. The FAR engineer shows the craft should be stable, with a slight loss in lift at mach 1+.

When I get home later I will try and post a few pictures of the craft, but I am asking to see if you know what would cause this on any aircraft.

[ferram4]

That is due to an error that resulted in improper placement of the aerodynamic center for wings at M > 1. Basically, I screwed up badly there; it was fixed for some dev versions that were still compatible with 0.23.5. You should be able to fix it using the version from this particular commit.

[Hodo]

That is due to an error that resulted in improper placement of the aerodynamic center for wings at M > 1. Basically, I screwed up badly there; it was fixed for some dev versions that were still compatible with 0.23.5. You should be able to fix it using the version from this particular commit.

Ok good to know, I thought it was another one of my fails in designing. So what do I download and install from that list all of it or specific ones?

[ferram4]

That's just the insides of the GameData/FerramAerospaceResearch folder... download everything and use it to replace the innards of the old FAR folder.

[NathanKell]

Get all those files (and the ones in the folders). Click each file. Right-click "Raw" and choose to save the link as. Replace your existing copies.

Ninja'd, except for the raw bit. You can't just right-click the links, you have to actually click each file and then click raw.

[AndreyATGB]

Ok good to know, I thought it was another one of my fails in designing. So what do I download and install from that list all of it or specific ones?

What ferram said, in case you don't figure it out go here https://github.com/ferram4/Ferram-Aerospace-Research/tree/3c7c50d8796486697620ec6e6f2ad79fadfb395b And download zip on the bottom right of the page. Ignore everything except GameData.

Haha 3 people, 3 methods

[3fishes]

I've seen this mod for a while, but I've only now gotten around to using it. I wanted some more realism for the contracts xD

Anyways, I put a RC-001S Remote Guidance Unit on top of a BACC solid fuel booster, launched it, aaaand it escaped Kerbin with room to spare.

Is something wrong or are stock aerodynamics just that bad?

[ferram4]

That's less the effect of proper aerodynamics and more the effect of the rocket equation. I wouldn't be surprised if that rocket had 5000 m/s of dV all packed together, since you've basically got no significant empty mass to speak of.

Yes, the stock aerodynamics are bad in that they will somehow suck up more dV than gravity will, but you need to be aware of what you're doing. A booster with no payload is about the worst measure of this possible.

[seraphx2]

So do you plan on using Curse or are you going to continue to buck the system? I hate having to track all this crap down when KSP has designated an official place to be putting things.

[Hodo]

So Ferram4 this was the craft I was having problems with, but your updated 13.3 version actually fixed it. Now it works better than intended.

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[IronStar]

"@IronStar: There is no reason that the FAR GUI should conflict with KW. There is no reason that a plugin should conflict with a pure part pack ever. Further, I use KW and haven't ever seen that happen."

I think i ll soon begin to believe in magic. Dark magic.

I am absolutely sure that FAR folder is situated as it should(as it always was and worked) and that all files are in there. I have lost count of how many times i ve reinstalled all game data folder.

My user account has administrator authority(and i have ensured that this is so again) , i ve reinstalled steam with ksp into another folder(it used to be in my personal folder now it is in program files), i ve checked whether all files are read only or not, i even tried disabling firewall.

And after the most fresh install......the problem is exactly the same as i described(with exception that i ve noticed that appearing or non appearing of in flight GUI in sandbox to be actually badly random for crafts built from scratch regardless of what i do in career mode ).

And i have never ever had this problem before ksp 0.24 and FAR 0.14- its all began the same moment i ve updated ksp and installed new version of FAR

output for 64 bit

http://www.filedropper.com/outputlog_2

output for 32 bit

http://www.filedropper.com/outputlog_3

[ferram4]

@seraphx2: KSP used to have a different designated official place for all those things, Kerbal Space Port. It was hindered by a terrible search system and a bloat of pointless files, making it utterly useless as a place to search for mods. I see no difference with Curse, and I see no reason to support something that has the same exact problems as the previous system.

@IronStar: There are no error in your log.

I see no reason why the Flight GUI should fail to appear. I have never seen any situation where it has failed to appear. I have seen situations that required multiple clicks of the stock AppLauncher button (and I know what causes that) to bring it up, but it has always been available short of flying a vehicle that lacks a command pod / probe core, and that is as it is supposed to be.

[Grunf911]

Actually that has occurred for me ever since I installed RT2. You can actually zoom back in (it somehow resets the zoom to really far away) using the mouse wheel. With all the other issues I have been tracking down and posting about, I just haven't gotten around to looking at that one too deeply since all it does is make me re-zoom back in.

You even sometimes get it on the launch pad

Thanks, and I think you are right. It definitely looks tied to RT2, but i could not get it to reset. Will try a bit more, since RT2 is a must for me. Thx for the info though

[Kobymaru]

Hi! Sorry for the noob questions, but is there something like an "official" rescaling mod? I would love to try the Plugin, but if I understand correctly, with FAR it's a bit too easy to get into orbit. I don't want to go full RSS, but at least stock-game difficulty would be nice.