[1.3.1] Ferram Aerospace Research: v0.15.9.1 "Liepmann" 4/2/18

[Zarenor]

ferram - I also noticed some errors on craft load for the stock SR-71B, pasted it the pastebin linked here.

I just double-checked the ModuleManager placement, and have ran static analysis, and flown, and I don't see a problem anywhere other than when it tries to draw CoL. And I've seen a frame or two where it succeeds before throwing the errors.

[Van Disaster]

@longhornchris: I find it easier just to shift fuel around rather than play with the aerodynamics ( and leaving flaps down until nearly transonic is quite some drag! ). I'll usually try and burn through transonic in a shallow climb in the hope that if the nose wants to drop too much I'll be in thinner air & accelerating fast enough to get enough lift on my canards to pull it back up. For really borderline T/W aircraft I usually just have to either burn fuel, be patient, or do a series of small dives/climbs.

@Ferram: Well - the log says the dll loaded, I quickly threw a random thing together from stock parts and this is what showed up:

( yes it might be embarassingly untuned but I really did mean "threw together". It flies, that was enough ).

Craft file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8rzfojwyevq0fug/FAR%20Demo.craft

Log file entries from loading into the flight scene:

[LOG 06:21:41.945] ------------------- initializing flight mode... ------------------

[LOG 06:21:42.154] Loading ship from file: <path>/../saves/Stuff/Ships/SPH/Auto-Saved Ship.craft

[WRN 06:21:42.173] Part mark3Cockpit_4294643848 cannot load module #4. It only has 4 modules defined

[WRN 06:21:42.177] Part mk3Fuselage_4294643766 cannot load module #0. It only has 0 modules defined

[WRN 06:21:42.181] Part mk3Fuselage_4294643736 cannot load module #0. It only has 0 modules defined

[WRN 06:21:42.185] Part mk3Fuselage_4294643706 cannot load module #0. It only has 0 modules defined

[WRN 06:21:42.241] Part noseCone_4294643218 cannot load module #0. It only has 0 modules defined

[WRN 06:21:42.249] Part structuralIBeam1_4294643022 cannot load module #0. It only has 0 modules defined

[WRN 06:21:42.253] Part nacelleBody_4294642986 cannot load module #1. It only has 1 modules defined

[WRN 06:21:42.266] Part turboFanEngine_4294642950 cannot load module #4. It only has 4 modules defined

[WRN 06:21:42.270] Part CircularIntake_4294642866 cannot load module #1. It only has 1 modules defined

[WRN 06:21:42.274] Part structuralIBeam1_4294642830 cannot load module #0. It only has 0 modules defined

[WRN 06:21:42.278] Part nacelleBody_4294642794 cannot load module #1. It only has 1 modules defined

[WRN 06:21:42.291] Part turboFanEngine_4294642758 cannot load module #4. It only has 4 modules defined

[WRN 06:21:42.295] Part CircularIntake_4294642674 cannot load module #1. It only has 1 modules defined

[LOG 06:21:42.365] FAR Demo loaded!

[LOG 06:21:42.372] putting ship to ground: 1.626003

<some irrelevant stuff>

[LOG 06:21:42.657] FAR Config read...

[LOG 06:21:42.658] Data loaded...

[LOG 06:21:42.660] Mk3 Cockpit: FAR drag model added; Surface area: 8.395563 Fineness Ratio: 0.8335729 TaperRatio: 0.8037244 Cross Sectional Area: 4.210885

[LOG 06:21:42.662] Mk3 Cockpit Num unused Attach Nodes: 0

[LOG 06:21:42.664] Mk3 Fuselage: FAR drag model added; Surface area: 28.07751 Fineness Ratio: 1.672656 TaperRatio: 0.9999999 Cross Sectional Area: 4.184227

[LOG 06:21:42.665] Mk3 Fuselage Num unused Attach Nodes: 0

[LOG 06:21:42.667] Mk3 Fuselage: FAR drag model added; Surface area: 28.07751 Fineness Ratio: 1.672656 TaperRatio: 0.9999999 Cross Sectional Area: 4.184227

[LOG 06:21:42.669] Mk3 Fuselage Num unused Attach Nodes: 0

[LOG 06:21:42.671] Mk3 Fuselage: FAR drag model added; Surface area: 28.07751 Fineness Ratio: 1.672656 TaperRatio: 0.9999999 Cross Sectional Area: 4.184226

[LOG 06:21:42.672] Mk3 Fuselage Part Loc: (2.9, 0.1, -3.7) Attach Loc: (3.4, 0.1, -5.5) Dist: 1.93625

[LOG 06:21:42.674] Mk3 Fuselage Num unused Attach Nodes: 1

[LOG 06:21:42.675] M-Beam 650 I-Beam: FAR drag model added; Surface area: 1.268209 Fineness Ratio: 2.77137 TaperRatio: 1 Cross Sectional Area: 0.09488126

[LOG 06:21:42.677] M-Beam 650 I-Beam Part Loc: (3.3, 1.6, -4.0) Attach Loc: (3.2, 1.6, -3.5) Dist: 0.5286795

[LOG 06:21:42.678] M-Beam 650 I-Beam Part Loc: (3.3, 1.6, -4.0) Attach Loc: (3.5, 1.6, -4.5) Dist: 0.5286795

[LOG 06:21:42.680] M-Beam 650 I-Beam Num unused Attach Nodes: 2

[LOG 06:21:42.682] Engine Nacelle: FAR drag model added; Surface area: 8.526061 Fineness Ratio: 1.278708 TaperRatio: 1 Cross Sectional Area: 1.753831

[LOG 06:21:42.683] Engine Nacelle Num unused Attach Nodes: 0

[LOG 06:21:42.686] TurboJet Engine: FAR drag model added; Surface area: 5.758026 Fineness Ratio: 1.100535 TaperRatio: 1 Cross Sectional Area: 1.307935

[LOG 06:21:42.688] TurboJet Engine Num unused Attach Nodes: 0

[LOG 06:21:42.690] Circular Intake: FAR drag model added; Surface area: 0.9654229 Fineness Ratio: 0.198647 TaperRatio: 1 Cross Sectional Area: 1.214998

[LOG 06:21:42.691] Circular Intake Num unused Attach Nodes: 0

[LOG 06:21:42.693] M-Beam 650 I-Beam: FAR drag model added; Surface area: 1.268209 Fineness Ratio: 2.77137 TaperRatio: 1 Cross Sectional Area: 0.09488119

[LOG 06:21:42.695] M-Beam 650 I-Beam Part Loc: (3.3, -1.3, -4.1) Attach Loc: (3.2, -1.3, -3.5) Dist: 0.5286794

[LOG 06:21:42.696] M-Beam 650 I-Beam Part Loc: (3.3, -1.3, -4.1) Attach Loc: (3.5, -1.3, -4.6) Dist: 0.5286794

[LOG 06:21:42.697] M-Beam 650 I-Beam Num unused Attach Nodes: 2

[LOG 06:21:42.699] Engine Nacelle: FAR drag model added; Surface area: 8.526065 Fineness Ratio: 1.278708 TaperRatio: 1 Cross Sectional Area: 1.753832

[LOG 06:21:42.701] Engine Nacelle Num unused Attach Nodes: 0

[LOG 06:21:42.704] TurboJet Engine: FAR drag model added; Surface area: 5.758027 Fineness Ratio: 1.100536 TaperRatio: 1 Cross Sectional Area: 1.307935

[LOG 06:21:42.705] TurboJet Engine Num unused Attach Nodes: 0

[LOG 06:21:42.707] Circular Intake: FAR drag model added; Surface area: 0.9654233 Fineness Ratio: 0.198647 TaperRatio: 1 Cross Sectional Area: 1.214998

[LOG 06:21:42.709] Circular Intake Num unused Attach Nodes: 0

[LOG 06:21:42.711] Aerodynamic Nose Cone: FAR drag model added; Surface area: 1.070725 Fineness Ratio: 0.5304211 TaperRatio: 0.8082414 Cross Sectional Area: 1.06002

[LOG 06:21:42.712] Aerodynamic Nose Cone Num unused Attach Nodes: 0

Edited July 30, 2013 by Van Disaster

[p1t1o]

@People having the CoL bug: Make sure that ModuleManager.dll is properly installed and is loading

I dunno if Im just being a n0ob, but isn't the installation for modulemanager "put the dll in the gamedata directory"...

Quite hard to screw that up, unless Im missing something?

[Crater]

I dunno if Im just being a n0ob, but isn't the installation for modulemanager "put the dll in the gamedata directory"...

Quite hard to screw that up, unless Im missing something?

You'd be surprised just how creative some people are when it comes to screwing up simple things.

You are spot on on that being the correct method, but in the case of ModuleManager.dll, some people do the (apparently) sensible thing of putting the ModuleManager.dll that comes with FAR in the FAR folder, and the ModuleManager.dll that comes with Kethane in the Kethane folder, and the ModuleManager.dll that comes with B9 in the B9 folder, and the ModuleManager.dll that comes with ModularFuels in the ModularFuels folder..... which can seem perfectly reasonable, and can cause some wonderful collisions in the code.

Edit : I'm not totally sure on every single one of the addons I name using ModuleManager, but you get the idea. It is also in the new RemoteTech, some of the life support mods, etc. but please don't take any of these as gospel or avoid mods because I said they used it, or yell at me on here to correct me (pretty please )

Edited July 30, 2013 by Crater

[Ralathon]

Small question:

I love this addon, but is there any way to get rid of all the coefficients in the window that pops up when you right click a part?

I really don't care if the drag coefficient of my capsule is currently 0.06287125 or whatever, I just want to activate my Ioncross CO2 scrubbers.

Currently the window displays so much info the button to do so disappears behind the navball.

[mizo]

Small question:

I love this addon, but is there any way to get rid of all the coefficients in the window that pops up when you right click a part?

I really don't care if the drag coefficient of my capsule is currently 0.06287125 or whatever, I just want to activate my Ioncross CO2 scrubbers.

Currently the window displays so much info the button to do so disappears behind the navball.

Second this motion. For some reason, the coefficients are listed twice on command pods, wasting a total of 6 lines.

[Event Horizon]

@Yarbrough08: Gah! The cargo-bay-shielding-parts-outside-the-bay-bug still exists... That will require me to mess with the code more. Mind posting a copy of the craft with the problem so I have something to work with?

@NathanKell: Sounds good. I'll look into setting things up properly for the next release.

@Sokar408: For part packs that don't include any wing parts nothing needs to be done; FAR will account for everything without any extra input. If the pack includes wing parts then it needs to be specifically set up for FAR or the wings will not function properly. B9 Aerospace's wing parts are set up to be compatible with FAR.

@Event Horizon: Did KSP crash in the SPH or VAB? Is that the only NullReferenceException in the log, or are there more? How close was that error to the crash?

@People having the CoL bug: Make sure that ModuleManager.dll is properly installed and is loading; make sure that the wings actually have FAR aerodynamics applied to them (try right-clicking on them in flight). Try the static analysis and see what the results are. I haven't been able to reproduce the issue on my end.

There were thousands of copies of that error, and it was in the VAB if I recall.

Here's the entire log folder if you want to take a look.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10679993/2013-07-29_221746.zip

[p1t1o]

You'd be surprised just how creative some people are when it comes to screwing up simple things.

You are spot on on that being the correct method, but in the case of ModuleManager.dll, some people do the (apparently) sensible thing of putting the ModuleManager.dll that comes with FAR in the FAR folder, and the ModuleManager.dll that comes with Kethane in the Kethane folder, and the ModuleManager.dll that comes with B9 in the B9 folder, and the ModuleManager.dll that comes with ModularFuels in the ModularFuels folder..... which can seem perfectly reasonable, and can cause some wonderful collisions in the code.

Edit : I'm not totally sure on every single one of the addons I name using ModuleManager, but you get the idea. It is also in the new RemoteTech, some of the life support mods, etc. but please don't take any of these as gospel or avoid mods because I said they used it, or yell at me on here to correct me (pretty please )

Thanks for the confirmation

So I already have a module manager DLL in my Gamedata directory. Are they just implemented once on running the game? Ie: if I want to install FAR, do I just overwrite it with the FAR module manager DLL? Or are all module manager DLLs the same?

On another installation note - I take it you DONT need to install the "Source" directory?

I've been told by other mods not to and I assume its the same, but I read a lot of "DID YOU FOLLOW INSTRUCTIONS EXACTLY TO THE LETTER?!" type things in response to errors and to be honest, unless you are experienced, the instructions can be contradictory...

The readme file included in the download says "unzip everything into KSP directory" - no mention of "Source" directory

Frontpage of this thread says copy "Gamedata" and "Ships" folders - no mention of ModuleManager.dll

I ASSUME that you copy the Gamedata and Ships folders and put the ModuleManager.DLL into Gamedata...just want to be sure...

Oh and of course, backing up everything - but then if you are modding then you should be doing this anyway.

[Torham234]

I am not sure what is happening, but my simple jet engines seem to loose most of the thrust shortly after the take off. the sound goes up in pitch, the red glow starts up, and then quickly dissapates and the sound also goes down, like I am throttling down, even though I am at full throttle. This is across all of my plane designs, even at very low altitudes (1500 m). If I take off the simple jet engine and put on the turbo jet, the engine is fine and running at full throttle, no problems.

[asmi]

Small question:

I love this addon, but is there any way to get rid of all the coefficients in the window that pops up when you right click a part?

I really don't care if the drag coefficient of my capsule is currently 0.06287125 or whatever, I just want to activate my Ioncross CO2 scrubbers.

Currently the window displays so much info the button to do so disappears behind the navball.

Sounds like we need a switch. Because I DO care about these numbers.

[Van Disaster]

I too care about those numbers.

Torham, are you running out of air?

[Yarbrough08]

@ferram4: It is a mod that I am making and it is still in development. I hope to have something soon tho and will post a craft file within a day or so. Thanks

[Ralathon]

Sounds like we need a switch. Because I DO care about these numbers.

Switch or a short config line (as with the hex overlay on startup in Kethane) would be optimal yes.

[Torham234]

I too care about those numbers.

Torham, are you running out of air?

that was my first thought, but no, since the turbo jet works fine on the same plane.

It looks to be by design, I just had a look in the cfg file. The basic jet engine is set to loose all thrust at the speed of 350m/s, and at 300 m/s its already operating only at 0.2 thrust. Compared to the turbo jet that looses thrust at 1800 (and at 1400 m/s it still operates at 0.8 thrust) this seems a bit underpowered, but I am sure the real world data support this setup.

[dlrk]

Is there a way to get terminal velocity in FAR?

[Zarenor]

dlrk: short answer is no, but bear in mind that terminal velocity is just the velocity at which air resistance equals gravitational acceleration, that is, 9.8 m/s² - which is to say, if your engines produce more acceleration than that (your TWR is greater than 1) it will not be your top speed.

If you're looking for something MechJeb like to save on delta V, you could try building with lower TWR or reduce throttle... Or use MechJeb's "Limit acceleration to..." tool after a burst of initial acceleration. Bear in mind that FAR uses much more accurate drag modeling than base KSP, and so you're likely to use less ÃŽâ€V than before, if you're designing with drag in mind

[rosenkranz]

It would be nice if somehow FAR could take a rolling average of the Cd that could be reported to MJ or somewhere MJ could see it to at least be able to report something sensible to landing guidance

[Van Disaster]

The current - I presume overall - cD is in the flight data panel already.

[jrandom]

I threw 9.5.5 back in to get some screenshots of the wonky CoL and right-click wing menu and I followed the same process I always have: verify no other copies of ModuleManager.dll exist (none did), used everything from F.A.R. 9.5.5... and I'm getting a correct CoL now. No idea why. Magically fixed itself.

I'll keep an eye on it, but this is promising. (I wonder if any of the other mods I just upgraded was causing the problem, where upgrading removed the issue...)

[Panaphobe]

Sorry if this has already been addressed elsewhere in the thread - I did some searching and didn't find anything though so hopefully this isn't an obvious repeat of a question:

I really like flying with FAR, but I've recently started expanding my missions towards more interplanetary travel. I was wondering if anyone has any experience with how FAR affects aerobraking, or if anyone has any general (or specific) tips for precision aerobraking with FAR? With vanilla KSP there are calculators that will give you a periapsis to shoot for to get a desired apoapsis - I don't expect this level of sophistication with FAR aerobraking (although it'd be cool if we had it!) but I'd prefer not to plan a mission having no clue how much delta-v I'll need at my destination.

[Van Disaster]

Generally I just take multiple gentle passes, iteratively adjusting the next pass based on how well the previous one went. Any more is guesstimation based on the graphs in the VAB and how the craft feels when it's launching ( which is no use if you built it in orbit, of course... ). And if it all goes wrong, quickloading

Aerobraking with FAR works just like any other part of atmospheric flight ( although I did notice something Jool specific in a quick flip through the code a while back, I don't know what it is though ) including the CoL/CoM/CoD stability aspect.

[jrandom]

If your reentry vehicle is aerodynamic, you'll need more drag to help slow you down. I came in too steep with the Mk1-2 pod, parachutes ripped off (thanks to Deadly Reentry and me accidentally shutting off SAS briefly), and it punched a hole through the atmosphere and impacted the ground at 1414m/s. I'm pretty sure the stock drag would have not allowed that.

It was amazing to watch, although three of my kerbals died (and I have permadeath enabled).

[Titan Space Agency]

Hey, I want to intall this mod, but when ever I try it it does not work. Can someone PM me a step by step guid to install this mod? Thanks.

[jrandom]

Just when I thought it was fixed... or maybe I'm just not correctly reading the CoL? My older test plane now shows a vertical CoL, but when I build a new one, I get an angled CoL. Is this just a side-effect of a more accurate CoL display? (When I add a new cockpit by itself, the CoL points straight backwards, whereas in previous versions it would point straight up.)

This v9.5.5, using the version of ModuleManager.dll that comes with it. No other copies of ModuleManager.dll are present in any other folder. KSP 0.21.1, Mac OS X 10.8.4

Angled:

Straight:

[BubbaWilkins]

I'm not sure what's going on, but the current version is giving me CoL errors on Firespitter, Procedural wings, and B9 based crafts. Even with deleting Ferram and ModuleManager and reinstalling, it goes from stock showing correctly to be 90deg's off on my existing craft using the above mods. There are no hidden ModuleManager files buried and everything worked correctly until yesterday when I updated Ferram.

BTW: Reverting back to 9.5.4 works just peachy.

Edited July 31, 2013 by BubbaWilkins