[1.3.1] Ferram Aerospace Research: v0.15.9.1 "Liepmann" 4/2/18

[heikkik]

I was just merging remotetech probes with FAR.. probeCoreOcto2 wasn't in the config files

Merging several mods that alter part configs is taking a time.. i've been trying to get a nice modpack together for days and only now am i'm starting to get a bit organized

Edited April 29, 2013 by heikkik

[ferram4]

@Nibb31 & Laphtiya: Apparently the section of the FAQ dealing with this got wiped in the forum outage; you don't need to edit the cfgs of fairings or anything else (as long as it isn't a wing) in order to make it work properly.

@Taverius: It seems to work fine; I haven't tried too much in the way of experimenting with that stuff, but it appears to perform as it should. Good job, have an aero-cookie.

[mcbmaestro]

Ok, so I've overcome most of my issues with the mod such as stability and control but I'm still having one problem: slight rolling during flight.

With mechjeb killrot, you could always eliminate all rolling but it doesn't seem to stop the rolling with this mod. I can trim my control surfaces down to where I can fly straight and level for about 5-10 minutes which is extremely stable and steady, but no matter how perfect I get the pitch/yaw/roll timmed, I always have a tiny roll that grows over a short time into a full out roll. Is there some way to completely eliminate roll (and pitch and yaw) so I can go afk for 10 minutes in the knowledge I won't crash/drift off course?

Edited April 29, 2013 by mcbmaestro

[MAKC]

Ok, so I've overcome most of my issues with the mod such as stability and control but I'm still having one problem: slight rolling during flight.

With mechjeb killrot, you could always eliminate all rolling but it doesn't seem to stop the rolling with this mod. I can trim my control surfaces down to where I can fly straight and level for about 5-10 minutes which is extremely stable and steady, but no matter how perfect I get the pitch/yaw/roll timmed, I always have a tiny roll that grows over a short time into a full out roll. Is there some way to completely eliminate roll (and pitch and yaw) so I can go afk for 10 minutes in the knowledge I won't crash/drift off course?

you need to reassemble your craft from the ground up. it might be because a part is colliding with another part and being pushed ever so slightly out causing the imbalance

[mcbmaestro]

Ok but we have to fly with trim only? I mean, even real planes need some kind of flight assistance, so the pilots don't have to manual control the entire flight.

Edited April 30, 2013 by mcbmaestro

[ferram4]

@mcbmaestro: The source of the problem is the same in both cases; your plane is asymmetric and the difference in loading on either side causes a slight rolling moment. With stock aerodynamics lift is much, much lower than it should be, which allows MechJeb KILLROT (with it's current system gains) to fix the problem completely; with FAR aerodynamics the loading difference is much larger and and so MechJeb KILLROT would need larger gains in order to fix the problem.

Honest question: FAR has a Wing Leveler autopilot built in, accessible through the flight GUI to do exactly what you want; why aren't you using it?

[localSol]

ferram, did you see my message two pages back about the stall angle bug? Is that one that has been hard to pin down? Is that information useful to you?

taverius, did you see my message a page back about the PID information? It's fine if you don't want to explain. It's pretty amazing what romfarer has managed to do with the lazors plugin.

At any rate things are looking good for KSP mods this month. Looking forward to 0.20 and next FAR version, whatever that comes with.

[DresCroffgrin]

First of all: I love this mod! As an aerospace engineering student, this mod really enhances my enjoyment of the game!

Do you have any recommendations when using this mod with Deadly Re-entry? I am trying to do a free-return reentry from the Mun with the 3 man pod and the stock Deadly Re-entry 2.5m heatshield. I am set my periapsis at a range of values ranging from 0 to 45 km for reentry, and for any trajectory that allows me to land on the first approach (like Apollo did) generates enough heat to destroy the heat shield and the pod. After config editing to make the temperature resists much higher, I am finding the lowest I can get the maximum temperature to be on a capture trajectory is about 30,000 degrees (the heatshield resists 10,000 by default). I expected just ramming the pod at Kerbin to fail, but this surprised me.

Is this normal? If it is, I am ok with playing with the config files to make Deadly Re-entry and FAR play well with each other; I just want to make sure that I'm not missing anything before I do.

Thanks !

[ferram4]

@localSol: The bug is that without running an aerodynamic analysis (CoL indicator or some other analysis) the stall angle isn't calculated. That's it. I'm just trying to figure out a way to run it that doesn't lag the game while your in the VAB.

@DresCroffgrin: That's because Deadly Re-entry is designed for the higher drag of the stock game; you're probably not going to be able to make this work unless you increase the max temperature or reduce the heating effects of Deadly Re-entry (although I don't know if that's possible to do).

[mcbmaestro]

Far has wing leveller? Where? My flight GUI vanished last week and I can't get it back.

[ferram4]

First, make sure the cockpit you're using has the FARControlSys module attached to it in the part.cfg; if it does and the GUI won't appear, try deleting the file in PluginData/ferramaerospaceresearch and see if the GUI appears.

[mcbmaestro]

ok ill try and report back. btw sorry if i sound like i'm crying it's only cuz I love the mod.

So the Munox module I was using does not have the FAR in the .cfg, so I attached a single pilot cockpit and got the FAR now. But.. the plane still rolls all over. I've set the wing leveler to like, 1.0, 2.0, 5.0, 10.0 everything I could think to use and it does absolutely nothing. The plane rolls the left regardless of what I enter for "K". I've checked the plane and fixed symmetry problems, several struts were not duplicated right. The Kerbal FAA has since fixed it. But the Bixie 114 still rolls left.

Edited April 30, 2013 by mcbmaestro

[MAKC]

The KW Rocketry pack has RCS thrusters specifically made for shuttles. They're streamlined, and also stronger than stock. I like them.

you mean the ones that are pointed on one side? i just tried using 2 modded rcs thrusters with 10 power each located as close to tip of the shuttle as aesthetically possible and i still cant keep the nose up..

[DresCroffgrin]

@ferram4: Thanks! I'll get to tweaking to make the two play nicely with each other. I am actually looking forward to ramming lots of things into Kerbin's atmosphere.... in the name of science, of course .

[Laphtiya]

@Nibb31 & Laphtiya: Apparently the section of the FAQ dealing with this got wiped in the forum outage; you don't need to edit the cfgs of fairings or anything else (as long as it isn't a wing) in order to make it work properly.

@Taverius: It seems to work fine; I haven't tried too much in the way of experimenting with that stuff, but it appears to perform as it should. Good job, have an aero-cookie.

Oh I am so downloading this tonight !! Thanks for the reply

[Climberfx]

Any one have this plugin installed and working on a Mac OSX?

I tried to use it, and it make my KSP not to open, so i had to restore may backup, that i did...

Sad...

[mcbmaestro]

Alright so being the stubborn person I am, I went back and simply made a plane using the standard Mark 1 cockpit. I made it in only a few minutes and I can garantee you there is nothing asymmetrical about it. But it still rolls left. No worries, the Wing Leveler did the job as you suggested. But now I'm wondering about how I maintain a set altitude. I played around with the AoA settings, Pitch damper settings, scaling settings, but no matter the combination I still can't totally null out altitude gain/loss.

I'm really just trying to get a easy system down where I can fly to a point and land there 100% of the time without 15 plus minutes of trimming and tweaking in futility. The only real issue now that rolling has been dealt with is the above mentioned altitude issue. Realistic or not, I just want a plane to fly exactly at 3000m if I specify 3000m, or at least stay at the altitude it's currently at when I 'lock' it down.

Edited April 30, 2013 by mcbmaestro

[earth]

I just finished testing it, and now i can say that i made a shuttle (Mk3) with only stock parts that is able to ssto and back with FAR! here is the craft if you want it.

shuttle V1_0.craft (54 KB)

https://mega.co.nz/#!VRtwjYDD!bGOvS2kHIu9bKWivSZxzt3Qf0u4POiWoCxKR6Cu0tDM

instructions:

fly (key 1) it until the third engine crashes (should be about 23000km) and fire the aerospike (key 2) and you can easily circularize.

Al you need to do is make sure your EAS is over 170 m/s at all times. Under its unstable.

it was a bit tough to get it right but when you begin to understand all the number crunching in the sph, then you can tell a lot about a ship without testing.

@Climberfx : it works on my moms macbook pro.

Edited April 30, 2013 by earth

[ferram4]

@mcbmaestro: More struts. The problem is that your plane is flexing in an asymmetric manner (and subtly enough that you can't see it) and that is causing the problem. If your plane actually were symmetric there wouldn't be any rolling tendency. There's also the possibility that your vertical stabilizer / rudder isn't exactly straight, which would cause this problem.

Holding altitude in a plane is a little difficult to do, especially if you're gaining / losing speed in the process. If you do get a plane to a proper cruise, don't interfere with minor changes in altitude and velocity; that's completely normal. See phugoid motion for more info.

As for the BSOD, I don't know what to tell you. It's probably a memory issue, which hopefully will get fixed in 0.20 with their loading system overhaul, but there's really nothing I can do.

@Climberfx: That problem is due to the fact that Mac OS doesn't merge folders by default; instead it overwrites them completely. Go and look up how to merge folders on a Mac and then install the plugin using that method. It will work fine.

[Nobody_1707]

Any one have this plugin installed and working on a Mac OSX?

I tried to use it, and it make my KSP not to open, so i had to restore may backup, that i did...

Sad...

I have it working. The problem is that as Ferram said, OS X does not merge by default. I personally couldn't get it to merge properly even when I told OS X to merge the folders, so I ended up manually copying all the models and such from my stock copy into the modded parts folders.

[localSol]

Thank you ferram.

to guys about nose up trouble : I haven't got a hang of rcs nose up myself, but maybe it is much harder when you're going too fast in too thick atmospheric density. What would be fun is integrated RCS thrusters in nose, command pod and or fuselage section (to keep drag and part count down) that can be adjusted in strength in exchange for mass after they have already been placed. Lando made a good part generator program, maybe it will be possible to do that sometime in the future with it :http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/25061-Part-generator-Version-2-X-release-open-beta)

[mcbmaestro]

I'm not sure what proper cruising means and ignoring small changes in altitude and speed. I can get most any plane to be trimmed, flying level, full throttle and like a .01% altitude drift with no visible roll/pitch/yaw. If I don't interfere at that point, won't the climbing or descending simply continue, unchecked? Phugoid or not, I just don't see how it's going to magically hold altitude on its own if I just let it sit there, slowly going up or down.

As for rolling issue, I tried 3 FAR jets to see what I could be doing so horribly wrong, yet they roll left just like mine do:

Silent Condor. Began a slight roll and yaw drift to the left after takeoff.

FAR Airliner. Began a very dramatic roll left after take off.

FAR Fireball. Had the least rolling but still began a slight roll and yaw to the left after take off.

The wing leveler takes care of that tho, so I'd rather focus on trying to hold altitude.

Edited May 1, 2013 by mcbmaestro

[ferram4]

@mcbaestro: Because lift is directly proportional to density and velocity squared; as a plane's altitude decreases, air density increase and velocity increases (from gravity). This causes lift to increase until it overpowers gravity, lifting the plane higher; then the cycle works in reverse. As long as you have a vehicle being acted on by gravity and aerodynamic forces, phugoid motion will result. It will oscillate a few hundred meters one way or another, but unless you're flying right near the flameout point that shouldn't be a problem. It's the same physical system; it should behave the same.

Also, all planes are slightly asymmetric; this is a KSP issue, and I can't fix it at all; it's been documented as a problem stemming from how joints function.

[theflyingfish]

For all of you inquiring about re-entry control,

The problem with your craft becoming uncontrollable in reentry isn't because of weak RCS, it's the offset CoM in relation to your CoL that is producing a pitching moment that RCS isn't powerful enough to counteract. I believe that in real life, the Space Shuttle used fuel pumping kung-fu to keep it's CoM Directly over it's CoL, minimizing the effort of the RCS. Unfortunately, we cannot view our CoM's and CoL's in real time in-game nor predict what they will be when the tanks are almost depleted. As such, there's no way to figure out how to pump your fuel, so you must revert to trial and error reentry for this task. Once you reach orbit, quicksave, then reenter your craft over and over, changing our fuel distribution each time until you find a setting that works.

[Climberfx]

Thanks!

I'm in. Working, and loving.

By the way, i already put my first pre FAR Space Plane SSTO Rocket only into space, just need a minor changes, and last more dV on fuel then before.

Other thing is that the center of lift got crazy. A bit! But i could contour that using my feelings.

Thanks a lot Ferram4! You are the man.

But the jets got less powerful on high altitudes.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Climberfx