Ship no longer aligned after launch and/or reverting to VAB

[maddog59]

Sorry if this is too long, I hope someone can help me solve this riddle:

I built a landing pad out of a series of structural panels, connected them with hinges and a KAL-1000 unit so that they'll unfold after getting to the site. Then I built a utility vehicle to land it on the Mun. I put a separator between the two, being careful to make sure it was on the central connection point of the landing pad construct, then put the utility vehicle on top of that. Then I attached a booster assembly, and set out to launch. It quickly when  went out of control, so I reverted to the VAB. That's when I saw that the landing pad was WAY out of alignment. I've repeated this several times. Here's two pics of the assembly in the SPH, properly aligned: 

  

And here it is after I took it out to the pad with just a fairing (to confirm that it was all aligned), and then reverted:

And just for grins and giggles I tried building and launching the whole mess from the runway, with the same result, but with an even better picture of the misalignment after reverting: Not only is the MUL off to one side, but one of the panels has slide out of position.

If anyone can shed some light on what the problem is, I'd love to hear it. I've tried strutting the h*** out of every piece of I could reach with no change to the results. 

Edited February 2, 2021 by maddog59

[Superfluous J]

This is a bug I've encountered from time to time. I think there's even a bug report about it. Somewhere deeply embedded in this forum I vaguely recall someone detailing exactly what caused it, though I don't recall if they ever came up with an in-game solution.

All I recall is it involves radially attaching things to robotic parts.

[InfernoSD]

Struts won't do anything in this case.

Only guessing, but your problem probably has to do with the structural panels. Those panels do weird things when you use symmetry on them. If it's not too much trouble, try removing things from symmetry, or try putting it all together without using symmetry.

[Fierce Wolf]

It's a bug, and don't know what causes it. It almost screws up a mission to Duna!

[Guest]

I don't know exactly what causes it either, but I do know that it's related to the root part. Try changing the root on your craft and see if that helps.

[maddog59]

7 hours ago, InfernoSD said:

Struts won't do anything in this case.

Only guessing, but your problem probably has to do with the structural panels. Those panels do weird things when you use symmetry on them. If it's not too much trouble, try removing things from symmetry, or try putting it all together without using symmetry.

I didn't use the mirror symmetry when I was building the pad ... unless using the Alt-key to duplicate a set of parts count. 

9 hours ago, Superfluous J said:

This is a bug I've encountered from time to time. I think there's even a bug report about it. 

All I recall is it involves radially attaching things to robotic parts.

I built the pad and added the lander in the SPH, without the mirror on... would that count as using the radial symmetry? I get mixed up as to what's what and which is which...

But knowing that it's a bug makes me feel  bit better, that it's not a personal problem.

8 minutes ago, Brikoleur said:

I don't know exactly what causes it either, but I do know that it's related to the root part. Try changing the root on your craft and see if that helps.

Yep, been there, tried that ... I've moved the root from the landing pad to the lander to the separator to the fairing to the .... well, you get the idea. 

My thanks to all of you for taking the time to respond. I'm going to play with it a bit more and see if I can come up with something that works. If I do, I'll repost. And if anyone has any other suggestions I'm still interested! 

[vv3k70r]

11 hours ago, maddog59 said:

I hope someone can help me solve this riddle:

Do You have world stabiliser mod?

Did You excluded launchpad from stabilisation?

 Without mods this bug is conected with gameload function. Set in cheats "pause vessel on unpack" it could help sometimes.

 

[Superfluous J]

3 hours ago, maddog59 said:

I built the pad and added the lander in the SPH, without the mirror on... would that count as using the radial symmetry? I get mixed up as to what's what and which is which...

Radial just means "not attached to a node." Thermometers attach radially. You don't need symmetry on to attach radially, but you may need it for the bug. I don't remember.

[maddog59]

12 hours ago, vv3k70r said:

Do You have world stabiliser mod?

Did You excluded launchpad from stabilisation?

 Without mods this bug is conected with gameload function. Set in cheats "pause vessel on unpack" it could help sometimes.

 

No, I don't have the World Stabilizer mod ... I have KER, KAC, Stage Recovery, Astrogator, Tweakscale (not used on this vehicle), and Hanger Extender. 

Not sure what you mean by excluding the launchpad (I assume you mean my landing pad construct?) from stabilization. Can you clarify?

I tried launching with the 'pause vessel on unpack' cheat turned on, and there was no change. Not really sure what it's supposed to do, even after reading the wiki.

[InfernoSD]

The most noteworthy thing about this bug is that it occurs even after reverting to VAB. To me that suggests it's happening during the save/load process, as if specific parts are not having their position or alignment recorded correctly in the vehicle file. Does the same bug appear if you simply save and load your vehicle? I played around for a while but couldn't replicate this same problem.

Here is the reason I fussed about structural panels. These two objects are considered mirror symmetrical.

This is not the same problem you're facing, since you're not using symmetry. However, it does demonstrate the messy way in which the game treats structural panel rotation and snap points. That could tie into other problems including the one you're facing.

[vv3k70r]

2 hours ago, maddog59 said:

 

Not sure what you mean by excluding the launchpad (I assume you mean my landing pad construct?) from stabilization. Can you clarify?

If You do not have stabiliser it is not relevant. There is a config file that include launchpad as default and it is wrong.

 

[maddog59]

15 hours ago, InfernoSD said:

 Does the same bug appear if you simply save and load your vehicle? I played around for a while but couldn't replicate this same problem.

So far the problem only seems to occur after I send the vehicle out to the pad/runway and then revert it. I have a file with the ship properly aligned available to both the SPH and VAB, and when I launch it to either the pad or the runway it appears to still be properly aligned when it first appears on the screen. I've zoomed and panned around to make sure it's aligned before I do anything; everything looks good, but once I launch or retrieve it, it all goes catawumpus. 

[vv3k70r]

9 hours ago, maddog59 said:

So far the problem only seems to occur after I send the vehicle out to the pad/runway and then revert it.

Mismatch in persistent file in Your case. Position of map against rotation of Kerbin.

Yesterday one of worklamps get beneth the ground and exploded when I took a look and landed to base on Minums. Even cheats didnt help (I can only edit its altitude in file - lamp is not worth extra efort).

Edited February 4, 2021 by vv3k70r

[maddog59]

15 hours ago, vv3k70r said:

Mismatch in persistent file in Your case. Position of map against rotation of Kerbin.

Is there a way to fix that? I'm not familiar with reading/modifying the files, even though I know they're viewable as text files. I put SO much effort into making this thing work, and it was my first use of the KAL-1000, I'd REALLY like to get this construct off the ground and on-site without resorting to cheats. Besides, it looks so pretty when it unfolds and extends it's arms! 

[vv3k70r]

10 hours ago, maddog59 said:

Is there a way to fix that? I'm not familiar with reading/modifying the files,

KML is checking for some incoherencies, but mostly around docking ports issues. And some root issue.

Propably best way is to reload previous state and test again.

You also have:

Kerbal Space Program\saves\your_save\Ships

and there are files of individual projects. VAB/SPH could be easily excluded to separate tool/game.

You can copy from this file before launching anything and keep it to set in proper place in save file on launchpad.

 

11 hours ago, maddog59 said:

I'd REALLY like to get this construct off the ground and on-site without resorting to cheats

Abadon all hope! KSP is in structure game prototype, not a planed product. There is no way to make this amount of changes work corectly without writing whole specs again and starting from scratches.

 

[maddog59]

10 hours ago, vv3k70r said:

Abadon all hope! KSP is in structure game prototype, not a planed product. There is no way to make this amount of changes work corectly without writing whole specs again and starting from scratches.