The Formation of the Kerbol System (My Guess)

[Dr. Kerbal]

I have seen topics in KSP lore but I don’t think lore is really the think to talk about when talking about the past. I think it should be about the past for the Kerbol system. Well. Here is my guess on how the Kerbol System formed.

The Kerbol System was formed around 9.2 billion years ago. A star before Kerbol was at the end of it life with only a handful of planets left facing their doom. The star though was a red giant burning it left over mass. Then suddenly a bright light from the star came and the star had burst open exploding it matter everywhere. Most planets were obliterated or ejected. The supernova was a spectacular sight. Slowly small dust particles started to collide into each other. Forming small rocks. Soon the left over hydrogen and helium started to form a new star. 1 billion years later the small yellow dwarf Kerbol was born 8 billion years ago. The bright star was surrounded by small asteroids. Soon though some asteroids got larger and started to form. All the rocket planets were a creepy glowing red. Lava lakes and impacts covered every planet (except gas giants).

  7.5 billion years ago and the Kerbol system was a reck. With 11 rocky planets orbits the star with 3 small gas giants. All the orbits were very chaotic. The small planets Roen and Gesel would hit Kerbin making it the size today and putting it in a stable orbit. Kerbin had two large rings around it. An outer one and a inner one. The inner one was more dense leading to the formation of the Mun. The outer one eventually formed small Minmus. 

  Over by Eve though Eve was starting to cool down. However a small group of astroid came bombarding it with astroids. Leading to Eve present day crater formed ocean. However one of these astroids got into a stage, orbit and became Gilly. 

  Moho got its inclined and elliptical orbit from an impact of another small planet. The small planets made Moho larger but effecting the planets orbit.

  Duna though was very different. It was covered in many black rocks and half of it was black.it had a small moon as big as the Mun orbiting it really close. Since of the proximity of its moon the small moon started to pick up the black rocks or Duna and the moon Ike was born. This explains it uneven terrain and close proximity.

  Dres was nothing really special. Some astroid hit it creating the craters. However the canton was formed when another astroid skid across the planet’s surface.

  Jool was formed by three gas giant Larnus, Akel, and Croken. Larnus was larger than the other two and encountered them both. Slowing them and getting larger. This also gave Jool’s green color. Since there were 5 planets that intersected Jool slowly the planets encountered Jool and became Jool’s moons. Typo though www so large it steered to tear apart Bop and Pol and turning them into the moons they are. Laythe and Vall bombarded each other as Lathe gained more water forming oceans and an atmosphere. Soon all of the Joolian moons settled down.

  Eeloo though came from a far place. It was a small icy world orbited by lots of small astroids. It entered the Kerbol System and encountered Jool. However Jool lead all the astroids orbiting Eeloo to impact Eeloo. This is how Eeloo got it elliptical orbit. However it wasn’t long that a rogue planet entered the Kerbol System moving Eeloo to a higher and inclined orbit and leaving astroids in the Kerbol System.

 

Any questions. List them below.

Edited February 6, 2021 by Dr. Kerbal

[kerbiloid]

Kerbin can't be 9.2 bln y old, as it still has young high mountains.

It's so small than even a billion years is too much for its geological life.

***

In the early versions of KSP Kerbol was red and small, not a giant.
So, it looks like a young red dwarf turned into something yellow-white.

To be investigated.

[Dr. Kerbal]

I guess so.

[R-T-B]

9 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

Kerbin can't be 9.2 bln y old, as it still has young high mountains.

It's so small than even a billion years is too much for its geological life.

***

In the early versions of KSP Kerbol was red and small, not a giant.
So, it looks like a young red dwarf turned into something yellow-white.

To be investigated.

The real issue with the system from a stock science perspective is that the planets are way too dense to be real considering their 1 ASL gravity at Kerbin and small radius.

But when we consider physics are scaled down by 10x, it makes sense.

Edited February 7, 2021 by R-T-B

[kerbiloid]

7 hours ago, R-T-B said:

The real issue with the system from a stock science perspective is that the planets are way too dense to be real considering their 1 ASL gravity at Kerbin and small radius.

Imho, exactly this is not a problem,

Just the gravitational constant in the system is 121 times greater.
So, the celestial bodies and orbits are 11 times smaller.

This doesn't cause any observable effects except that, because gravitational constant doesn't affect any chemistry, it's actual for much greater scales.

The bodies are made of usual minerals, and don't have any superdense core.

As the bodies have ~1 300 lesser amount of materia, their evolution ends by orders of magnitude sooner that here.
Planet formation and and geological processes take (required to compute, but not right now) thousands-maybe-millions years.
So, Kerbin system is by orders of magnitude younger than ours.

Also this means that there is no time for life evolution, so no native species can be available.
This shows, that Kerbals and trees were brought from another planetary system, with gravitational constant close to ours.
Maybe it's another universe, maybe failed scientific experiment, maybe a virtual reality like a videogame,,,

***

(Recommending very much for all  KSP fans)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raft_(novel)

[vv3k70r]

On 2/7/2021 at 12:21 AM, Dr. Kerbal said:

The Kerbol System was formed around 9.2 billion years ago.

How would You measuere time with this LerbLightSpeed and density/gravity?

3 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

This doesn't cause any observable effects except that, because gravitational constant doesn't affect any chemistry

It affect separation of materials. See gas giants.

3 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

The bodies are made of usual minerals, and don't have any superdense core.

Balance of forces results in materials. Diferent scales - diferent stability regions.

3 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

Also this means that there is no time for life evolution, so no native species can be available.

And there is no other species than those living in KSC

Kerbals and boosters is all that evolved.

[kerbiloid]

3 hours ago, vv3k70r said:

It affect separation of materials. See gas giants.

Yes, it causes visible effects at planetary scale, and that's why the KSP planets are so small.

But it doesn't affect the daily world.

3 hours ago, vv3k70r said:

Balance of forces results in materials. Diferent scales - diferent stability regions.

Same gravity - same properties.

Radiuses of same gravity vary.

[vv3k70r]

2 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

But it doesn't affect the daily world.

Of course it does. Higher the gravity - easier to separate tungsten from gold.

We have lot of issues with welding in microG juste because of those factors. Gravity is very important for metalurgy at least. But also in mining for separation of materials and so on.

2 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

Same gravity - same properties.

Acceleration results in energy density in particles colisions, it changes pressure inside materials. In diferent energy denisty You get diferent favorable reactions. Quite often You are able to jump over some energy states getting as result materials that otherwise are semistable. Disipation is diferent too.

For example higher the energy more states of recombination lead from burning hydrogen in oxygen to water. Like O3 would occure during reaction statisticaly often before it do what it should normaly. Just because energy density allow such a state to happen more often.

Carbon for example would more often form crystals that would not like react much after.

[vv3k70r]

3 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

But it doesn't affect the daily world.

I was drivin and thinkin what real life example I can present You. So I get one.

Hydrocarbons. In Earths gravity we get a pressure of atmosphere, and even if we would not have atmosphere we have some liquids covering most of the planet, and even if - we have rocks.

In real life You see hydrocarbons as stable if left alone (no other chemical compound accesible). But they are not. Hydrocarbons react with themselfs. If gravity is higher so they particles are near each other and start exotermical reaction onits own. They do not need oxygen or anything to do that.

We can simulate this state just by higher pressure.

Best hydrocarbon for that is C2H2. In 1atm it is stable. But if You put it in 2atm (not deeep in the water) it will start reacting to C4H4 and C6H6. If gravity would be higher same thing will happen to any other hydrocarbon.

It is reason why we do not use it for cutting under 10m deep water.

[kerbiloid]

1 hour ago, vv3k70r said:

Of course it does. Higher the gravity - easier to separate tungsten from gold.

Higher the resulting gravity (GM/r2), not gravitational constant (G).

If G is 121 times greater, the same gravity is at 1/11 lesser radius.

All processes you have mentioned are affected by GM/r2, not by G.

Edited February 8, 2021 by kerbiloid

[vv3k70r]

1 hour ago, kerbiloid said:

All processes you have mentioned are affected by GM/r2, not by G.

Particles do not have radius?

[Dr. Kerbal]

On 2/7/2021 at 2:48 AM, kerbiloid said:

Kerbin can't be 9.2 bln y old, as it still has young high mountains.

It's so small than even a billion years is too much for its geological life.

***

In the early versions of KSP Kerbol was red and small, not a giant.
So, it looks like a young red dwarf turned into something yellow-white.

To be investigated.

But that could also be continents pushing gaginst each other. Like Mount Everest.

[kerbiloid]

1 hour ago, vv3k70r said:

Particles do not have radius?

Particles are affected by gravity on < 1 000 km distances?

Neither TV set falls down, nor water pipes notice that G got 121 times greater, if at the same time the radius gets 11 times smaller.
It's still 9.81 m/s2 for them.

Even basketball stays same. Because at daily life distances only GM/r2 plays role, not its components.

But at the same time stars and planets get condensed earlier, from smaller dust clouds, so grow smaller.

32 minutes ago, Dr. Kerbal said:

But that could also be continents pushing gaginst each other. Like Mount Everest.

The continents don't push, they just float, they're passive ballast lying on top of the ground fountains.

 

UPDATE

My fault.
M ~R3, so GM/R2 ~ R, so I missed the power value and its sign.

It's a linear proportion if build the planet from same material, so  G is 11 times greater, not 121

Edited February 8, 2021 by kerbiloid

[vv3k70r]

2 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

Particles are affected by gravity on < 1 000 km distances?

As far I know it is inverse square of distance. Meybe even any distance. Works in my villge and I checked in town. Some people say they are quite fast up there in the sky, but I never get there to check myself. Fast mean coliding violently.

2 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

Neither TV set falls down, nor water pipes notice that G got 121 times greater, if at the same time the radius gets 11 times smaller.
It's still 9.81 m/s2 for them.

They also fall against each other. And the forces repelling them should do exactly the same or fall.

Sorry but from diferent gravity constans You get another concentration of energy.

You speak about dense world, and by dense it mean also energetic. Kind of hot.

2 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

But at the same time stars and planets get condensed earlier, from smaller dust clouds, so grow smaller.

You expect fussion to occur same way in such gravity? How energetic must be event to generate pressure keeping star from colapsin?

How small those stars should be same time being hot? How fast would they burn?

 

2 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

It's a linear proportion if build the planet from same material, so  G is 11 times greater, not 121

Whatever it is our world is only temporary stable. World that will give statistical measurment of diferent G could look very diferent if att all.

Edited February 8, 2021 by vv3k70r

[kerbiloid]

8 hours ago, vv3k70r said:

As far I know it is inverse square of distance. Meybe even any distance. Works in my villge and I checked in town. Some people say they are quite fast up there in the sky, but I never get there to check myself. Fast mean coliding violently.

I don't understand.

8 hours ago, vv3k70r said:

They also fall against each other. And the forces repelling them should do exactly the same or fall.

Sorry but from diferent gravity constans You get another concentration of energy.

You live in the world of constant gravity acceleration.
No device or process you can see around is enough large to take into account its changing with altitude.
All your daily objects are too small to see any difference between GM/R² and GM/(R+h)².

8 hours ago, vv3k70r said:

You expect fussion to occur same way in such gravity?

Fusion comes from pressure, from the atomic collisions.
Higher G - smaller clouds provide enough high pressure inside.

8 hours ago, vv3k70r said:

How small those stars should be same time being hot?

Probably proportional to the G change, as pressure looks growing with G and R linearly.
So, stars and planets should be smaller by more or less same orders of magnitude.

8 hours ago, vv3k70r said:

How fast would they burn?

Very fast. The stars and the planet geological processes should be very short-living.
Idk without calculation, but as Kerbin is 11 times smaller than Earth, it has just ~0.001 amount of the Earth atoms to get gravitationally differentiated, and just ~0.1 of path for it to go down.

So, millions, maybe hundreds of thousands years before Kerbin geologically dies.

Something of same scale is for the Kerbol's fusion, for same reason: just 0.001 of Sun atoms to burn.

These small systems would be very short-term, so obviously no endemic life have time to appear there.

8 hours ago, vv3k70r said:

World that will give statistical measurment of diferent G could look very diferent if att all.

You would unikely notice any difference living on Kerbin.

[vv3k70r]

2 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

I don't understand.

I know.

2 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

You live in the world of constant gravity acceleration.

Repeled by other forces. I do not fall into the ground very often.

2 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

Probably proportional to the G change

Proportional against other forces. It could mean no stars att all.

2 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

So, stars and planets should be smaller by more or less same orders of magnitude.

It is proportion. It is not easy scalable because of number of factors that are involved.

2 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

Very fast. The stars and the planet geological processes should be very short-living.

If at all.

2 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

Idk without calculation, but as Kerbin is 11 times smaller than Earth, it has just ~0.001 amount of the Earth atoms to get gravitationally differentiated, and just ~0.1 of path for it to go down.

What keep it from colapsing even more?

If You press electrons against each other more they start to cast photons like crazy.

2 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

These small systems would be very short-term, so obviously no endemic life have time to appear there.

They could be so fast that chemical properties would not create anything sofisticated if occur at all.

2 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

You would unikely notice any difference living on Kerbin.

If there is a way to set this experiment please send Ham first to check it.

[kerbiloid]

17 minutes ago, vv3k70r said:

Repeled by other forces. I do not fall into the ground very often.

You live in a world where gravity = const = 9.81.

It doesn't depend on your position. It isn't a potential field at your daily scale. You live in a pre-Newtonian world.
Newton's 1/r² starts getting observable at hundreds of kilometers distances.

If put you in a room, you won't be able to say if the gravity in this room is caused by GM/r2, linear acceleration, or magic. It just is.

17 minutes ago, vv3k70r said:

What keep it from colapsing even more?

Why should it collapse? It's not n Earth compressed 1000 times, it's 1000 times lesser amount of atoms.

The same about the electrons.

17 minutes ago, vv3k70r said:

They could be so fast that chemical properties would not create anything sofisticated if occur at all.

All chemical compounds but organics came from space ready-to-use.

Only complicated organics is locally produced, in tiny amounts.  

17 minutes ago, vv3k70r said:

If at all.

Fusion is caused by atomic nucleus collisions.
Frequency depends on pressure (or pressure defines the frequency).
Collision energy depends on velocity, i.e. on temperature, which adiabatically depends on pressure.

So, once the pressure  gets enough high, the fusion starts, no matter how big is the star.

Edited February 9, 2021 by kerbiloid

[vv3k70r]

2 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

it's 1000 times lesser amount of atoms.

They will radiate all heat very quickly.

2 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

All chemical compounds but organics came from space ready-to-use.

Because stars do what they do. Space is not involved.

2 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

So, once the pressure  gets enough high, the fusion starts, no matter how big is the star.

This one we tried already. Those "stars" take energy instead of emiting.

2 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

or magic. It just is.

It is how Kerbin exist and Minmus do not fly away. Magic of computer games.

 

It is a bit more complicated than one constans.

 

Edited February 9, 2021 by vv3k70r

[kerbiloid]

2 hours ago, vv3k70r said:

It is a bit more complicated than one constans.

Probably.

But
1) I never said it's just only one constant. Maybe, lightspeed has been changed a little, too, lol.
2) It's still more simple explanation that ultra-dense material.

Edited February 9, 2021 by kerbiloid

[vv3k70r]

44 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

2) It's still more simple explanation that ultra-dense material.

It is computer game. Limited simulation of part of statistical rules we know simplified to be simulated corectly enough using real time computing power we posses. It has no other sense than this. It is fun, it works, and even force us to consider "what if".

We can imagine dragons even if they do not exist and have no biological sens - they are still cool. Slay the dragon, conquer the space - its fun.