LOTR is tom bombadil tulkas?

[Arugela]

https://www.quora.com/In-The-Lord-of-the-Rings-are-Tom-and-Goldberry-actually-Tulkas-and-Nessa

This is a common argument about it. He was the last of those gods to arrive.

But the wording about melkor is not that he was there before he arrived. But before melkor came from the beyond.

IE, it sounds like it means bombadil was there before he came back from the void to destroy the two towers during the war. In which case it fits tulkas and nessa perfectly.

 

I think in this video it mentions the quote. People never pay attention to the wording.

 

"Before the dark lord came from the outside." That is a reference to the assault on the two towers during the first age if I"m not mistaken. This was a specific instance of melkor arriving on middle earth. Tulkas arrived before that assault. He was put to sleep by nessa just before this happened. It would fit that bombadill could be tulkas and nessa.

I think tom is tulkas keeping an eye on sauron and actively keeping track of or dealing with melkors actions/consequences over time. He may also be acting as protector of the shire or an active passive threat to sauron. some of the description of his fighting didn't seem to involve pure brute force as much as cunning. He may be more of a strategic leader on top of anything else. There is also the interesting idea he made the hobbits. Maybe he's keeping an eye over them. Or designed them to destroy the rings.

https://www.quora.com/Could-Melkor-in-his-full-power-beat-Tulkas

Possibly adding to the point that tulkas more of a strategist and not a brute force warrior. It would explain how he's acting potentially. He's more like how the return of the king guy was a scout and used others to do things and not his own physical power.

Edited February 7, 2021 by Arugela

[kerbiloid]

Bomby is Tulcas under sedatives, kept in the personal calm green asylum - the Forest, with Nessa as nursie.

He's unlikely "good" because he doesn't worry about the man-killing tree and other monsters.

He got others with his bruteforcing, so they decided to have give him a rest.

I can't remember, did JRRT describe soft walls in the Bomby's rooms?

***

What looks rather strange, is why was Orodruin not guarded, so two random travellers just got to there by feet (except several minor incidents).

And why did not Gandalf just send eagles to carry them?

And why did Orodruin explode just after the ring was destroyed?
Logically, the power of the ring should just return to the owner, making Sau just stronger.

Why do they think that the returned Gandalf was actually Gandalf? Just because he said so?

Why was Galadriel operating so easily with the Dark effect of the ring?
Why did she reject taking it from the hobbits?
Because she was afraid of becoming Dark (like if she was Light), or because she just new the schedule and considered the ring belonging to another owner?

Why do they think that the ships in the end of the LOTR actually ran to the Valinor?
And even if so, why were they sure that Gandalf was Gandalf?

Why did Cirdan  stay in the Middle-Earth instead of returning to Valinor with others?
Did he actually have tasks to do? Which ones?
Or did he just know the actual aim of their sea travel?

Why were they sure that Sau can't make good face?
Just because Gandalf said so? Gandalf knows what another equal Maya can't? Was Gandalf honest at least sometimes?

***

If presume that at least Gandalf 2.0 was actually Sau cosplaying Gandalf, then everything gets explained.

Hobbits with Gandalf 1.0 (or maybe it was actually Sau, but this doesn't matter) reached Moria.

Gandalf fell. (If it was Sau, just escaped to his residence, but this doesn't matter).

Sau joined them as Gandalf 2.0 White.
Following his orders, the frontier guards let Frodo and Sam pass to Orodruin without major troubles.
Vice versa, a company of orcs quickly delivered them to Fangorn.
(Two minor incidents happened, but Shelob was easily repelled with the Galadriel's flask, while the orcs going to kill the hobbits in the dungeon, were killed with an expendable team of other orcs).

They visited Lorien and met Galadriel, who is actually a Dark Queen.
As we can see, Celeborn was a totally submissive husband of her, in his times used to bring Gal to the elvish throne, so his alignment plays no role.

She let them see her real nature for a minute, and gave the flask.
(So, Shelob was just a tiny bug, not considered by Sau and Gal as real danger. The flask was exactly for such minor cases.)

 

 Frodo, Sam, and Gollum have reached Orodruin, while Sau aka "Gandalf White" was doing his deeds in Rohan and Gondor.

Sau the "Gandalf White" led the Gondor army to the gates of Mordor, to his residence.

Frodo and Gollum together put the useless ring on fire.

The useless Ring melted, Sau get back the part of his force stored in it.
As other rings have already been spent (Except the Gal and Kirdan ones), he didn't need the Ring anymore, so he just used the hobbits as a cheap delivery.  And just4lulz.

After the Ring had been burnt, Sau activated the self-destruction system of his fortress.
(He didn't need the wasteland fortress anymore, as now he became an almost-god of Gondor, Rohan, and elves,  so he just burst it up to prevent using it by uncontrolled forces and to make everyone sure that Sau is gone).

 

Together with Gal, Sau put his emissars in Gondor and other places, married the  last and the only princess of Imladris/Rivendell on the mortal, i.e. Aragorn
(a person brave and dexter, but obviously not an example of high intellect).

So, he cancelled the royal dinasty of Imladris and put obviously unhappy and manipulatable couple on the throne of Gondor.

Galadriel/Alatariel of Laurelindorenan/Lorien and Cirdan The Shipwright of Grey Havens kept owning their rings.
Strange?  Weren't their rings powered from Sau and had to get deactivated after his disappearance???
Not strange. Sau aka "Gandalf White" was staying with them, so it was ok with their rings.

The third elvish ring, owned by Gandalf ("Gandalf" ?) stayed on the Sau's own finger.
Bet, it was the 10th finger, lol.
I.e. nine fingers of "Gandalf White" were Sau's own, and  the 10th finger with ring was from the previous owner, together with the ring.

 

After all of that, the future royal couple of Sau (as "Gandalf White") and Gal mounted the ships, took everyone significant together with them.
(Yes, Celeborn was taken, too, as a funny pet, why not.)

Cirdan (the third one of their trio) stayed in the Middle-Earth as Sau's imperial overseer.
Now he is the Lord of the Middle-Earth and a head nurse of the asylum for Bomby-Tulcas.

Later they reached Valinor and have been welcomed.

 

Then Sauron The White and Galadriel The Dark had taken the Vali-throne and started ruling.

Celeborn and Frodo became a pair of near-throne harmless clowns, "Cellie and Fro",
Lego and Gimly were put into neighboring cells in the royal zoo as an unique phenomenon of elvish-dwarvish friendship, so everyone can see and get amused.

***

Shire stayed same. Nothing happened to it.
Like Gandalf promised, hobbits stayed themselves: short-sighted, greedy, primitive villagers caring only of food and basic comfort, being interested in nothing but their stomach.
Sau always liked such kind of people, that's why he was fond of visiting Shire as Gandalf, like a farmer likes to scratch a chewing piglet behind ears.

***

Unlike they say, in the Sau & Gal pairing  not Sau was allegory of Thirst for Power.

Sau was a trickster, he never actually liked to sit on throne. Tricks and adventures always were his nature. Just read everything about him.
Unlike him, Alatariel's intentions always were absolutely straight and clear: Moar Powah!
A true daughter of her family.

So, the Dark Valinor throne was occupied mostly by Gal, while Sau was running around, seeding chaos and inventing tricks.

(Meanwhile Cirdan was enjoying the invisible throne of the Middle-Earth, keeping one eye on the Bomby-Tulcas's sanitarium).

***

The only question is: was Sau the "Gandalf" from the very beginning?

It looks so. This allowed him to escape so easily from Saruman and do other tricks.

Radagast (and another one) realized that it's something very wrong with "Olorin"/"Gandalf", so he quit from the very beginning.

So, weren't Istari a Sau's attempt to take over the whole Middle-Earth (why "Earth"?) after the Numenor catastrophe?

Edited February 7, 2021 by kerbiloid

[benzman]

Reading this sort of stuff, if you know nothing about the subject, is hilarious.

[Le Lynx]

I like Bombadil.