(v0.17) Tested and verified working electrical solar panels, batteries & ion engines

[daniel984]

Hello dear community!

I am fairly new here, so bear (*roar*) with me. First off, my little story:

I've been scrounging the net looking for a working electrical mod, with several different solar panels, batteries and ion engines. Came up short every time. Either because they didnt use the same "electrical energy" (different plugins) or whatever else..

So I sat down trying to figure out what the hell to do to bring them together.

Seeing that alot of people dont want to edit the cfg's (like I usually dont care for myself), I thought maybe I can upload my editations on previous mods, so that more people can use it..

My pack contains edited versions of these files:

1x Soyuz Solar Panel (foldout)

1x MMI Regular Solar Panel (foldout)

1x MMI Ion Engine

1x MMI External Battery

1x VB Ion Engine

1x VB Battery

1x Powertech plugin

To get an introduction to how the docking mod ORDA work, take a look at this thread.

Please do give some feedback if all this is ok to do, or not, and if there is anything else I can edit or contribute with. =)

With great regards - Daniel

Edited September 25, 2012 by daniel984
Stupid not to ask authors first

[Kreuzung]

First, do you have permission by the authors?

Did you read the rules for publishing mods (not that they'd be obvious at all), which license is this released under?

And BTW, your config edit doesn't make them use the same energy plugin.

[daniel984]

Hmm.. Maybe you are right.. But I have crosstested these batteries from one pack to another, and for now they all work across each other.. So if what you are saying, I dont know why they work..

For the thread itself, I havent asked any of the authors, no. I'll delete the content for now, and ask all independently first.. TY for the quick reply

[daniel984]

Thank you for posting! Your post will not be visible until a moderator has approved it for posting.

[Bluekommeh]

Plus, I think Kreuzungs plugin is becoming the standard electrical plugin, alot more mods use it than powertech.

[Kreuzung]

PowerTech is compatible to mine, you mean MuMechVariable stuff, it's sort-of outdated and will probably be replaced soon.

[kyle.mk.howard]

Thanks for releasing this, hopefully the authors won't have a problem.

At least SOMEONE is trying to get the content out there.

[dikkjo]

PowerTech is compatible to mine, you mean MuMechVariable stuff, it's sort-of outdated and will probably be replaced soon.

I think the problem with PowerTech is its name! It should be called AwesomePluginThatAnimatesSolarPanelsAndRechargeWhateverYouWant

That would clear a lot of confusion that i see around the electricity paradigm

[daniel984]

That was the intention at least. Not trying to get credit or anything, just editing some of the cfg's out there, to get them compatible to each other..

[rhysfm]

where is your pack

[alphamale]

^ agreed i cant find the link to download

[morpheus2n2]

where is your pack

^ agreed i cant find the link to download

Please read the other post in this thread the OP has removed the link due to permissions!

[Frostiken]

The problem is we have dozens of solar panels, but they either don't work with the plugins or, just as bad - they aren't animated!

Someone going through and releasing a huge solar panel pack would be awesome.

Please read the other post in this thread the OP has removed the link due to permissions!

Funny how I'll bet the majority of the part addons were made in pirate copies of Photoshop or 3DS Max or whatever, but suddenly it's important we get permission to adjust .cfgs and reupload parts. Oh double standards.

Who gives a damn? He's being helpful.

Edited September 25, 2012 by Frostiken

[kyle.mk.howard]

Funny how I'll bet the majority of the part addons were made in pirate copies of Photoshop or 3DS Max or whatever, but suddenly it's important we get permission to adjust .cfgs and reupload parts. Oh double standards.

Who gives a damn? He's being helpful.

I concur.

The makers of these plugins don't seem to be doing much with the new release, anyways.

We all know you made the mods, but it's not like you coded the game..

[gabmaia]

I concur.

The makers of these plugins don't seem to be doing much with the new release, anyways.

We all know you made the mods, but it's not like you coded the game..

I couldn't agree more, it's not like the guys who wrote that are making any money out of it, hey, just credit them for the hard work and it's all good^^

[phoenix_ca]

While I whole-heartedly concur with your sentiments, the history here seems to have been, thus far, a strongly anti-opensource stance, such that cfg edits of mods are not looked upon kindly by the community. Do I think this is a fair way of going about it? No.

I already have a pack of cfg edits finished for all of the Kosmoz panels, fold-out radiator, and MMI.S ion engine, battery, and panel. I've asked the authors for permission to post the pack. It's goal is essentially to standardize all the electrical stuff so they play nicely together, support all the advanced features of SolarPanels_adv_PowerTech, and be compatible with EEP. That, and the power generation values are balanced so that the consumption of the DSM ion engine and MMI.S ion engine are comparable, and the MMI.S batteries make more sense, capacity-wise. That, and power generation values are based on the actual surface area of the panels.

Though tbh, I'll probably end-up posting them anyway, for the reasons noted above. Such edits do NOT detract from the previous work, especially since they are functional improvements, and do not include all of the mod assets, and credit is given where credit is due. Furthermore, the previous work was freely distributed, and the cfg edits are also freely distributed.

A rough analogy would be screws. Someone invents a slotted/flat-head screw, and Mr. Robertson invents the Robertson screw. So I (the person making these cfg edits) come along and say, "We can make these work together nicely." A little while later, we have a slotted/Robertson hybrid screw. Best of both worlds, all-in-one. Then I release this lovely contraption and everyone wins. Ethically, and legally, this is sound. There's a very good reason why copyright law recognizes the special case of derivative works. (And furthermore, copyright law does NOT apply here, at least not US or Canadian law, because no profit is made from the modification to the previous work, and no harm is done. If anything, there is a net benefit to all concerned parties. To be so apoplectic about getting permission to edit someone else's edits is absurd.)

Edit: To be clear, what I'm aiming for is a cross-compatibility and balancing between mods that use electricity. It's not really doing anything all that new, aside from calculating power generation based on area, it's more of a fine-tuning of existing assets so they play nice together.

Edited September 25, 2012 by phoenix_ca

[Frostiken]

I've even seen some people bitching when someone reuploads the files to another host (usually because the provided one is broken or annoying to use). I don't understand this sense of... superiority? Entitlement?

Why in the name of god should a mod for a game have more limitations than the game itself?

The only reason people complain about releasing .cfg edits for stock parts is that they clutter the forum and are usually stupid, like putting 10,000,000 fuel in the liquid tank. However, look at how many mod authors reappriated Squad's assets for their own mod. Why is it okay to use the RCS tank for your own mod, but it's not okay to grab the AR202 and use that?

Finally, a .cfg should in no way whatsoever be considered "protected" content anyway. 95% of what's in a .cfg was written by Squad anyway. The only thing that mod authors due to .cfgs is fiddle with some numbers. That people are complaining about these files makes this community look incredibly pathetic and desperate for drama. If you go to any other major modding center, such as the Fallout / Oblivion / Skyrim Nexus sites, you will see tons of mods, many of which are mods to mods. For Fallout 3, I downloaded a mod which added a lot of guns. I immediately had to download a mod from someone else which rebalanced the guns completely - which is the functional equivalent of a .cfg edit.

I close with these words of wisdom:

"If I didn't want someone to take something of mine and use it to any and every possible end, I wouldn't put it on the internet, as anything on the internet can and will be used without permission, quoted out of context, and photoshopped into porn."

Edited September 26, 2012 by Frostiken

[sal_vager]

Config edits are too easy to do, they are seen by most as a cop out.

Anyway, permission is needed to reuse others code and parts, there were some allegations of theft, so the rules had to be tightened, so much so that Novapunch was unavailable for a while as well, as Tiberion couldn't get permission from Sundaypunch (he was just not here to ask)

You can read the thread about the need for permission/source code/licensing here, and rather than being anti opensource, the fact that the code has to be available and that you can chose an opensource license for your stuff should really make opensource the logical option.

I for one would prefer it if more members used a copyleft or opensource license for their stuff, but if they choose not to allow others to use their add-ons (without express permission at least) then we should respect their wishes.

And anyway, if someone wont let you use their parts, we can always make more

[kyle.mk.howard]

While I whole-heartedly concur with your sentiments, the history here seems to have been, thus far, a strongly anti-opensource stance, such that cfg edits of mods are not looked upon kindly by the community. Do I think this is a fair way of going about it? No.

I already have a pack of cfg edits finished for all of the Kosmoz panels, fold-out radiator, and MMI.S ion engine, battery, and panel. I've asked the authors for permission to post the pack. It's goal is essentially to standardize all the electrical stuff so they play nicely together, support all the advanced features of SolarPanels_adv_PowerTech, and be compatible with EEP. That, and the power generation values are balanced so that the consumption of the DSM ion engine and MMI.S ion engine are comparable, and the MMI.S batteries make more sense, capacity-wise. That, and power generation values are based on the actual surface area of the panels.

Though tbh, I'll probably end-up posting them anyway, for the reasons noted above. Such edits do NOT detract from the previous work, especially since they are functional improvements, and do not include all of the mod assets, and credit is given where credit is due. Furthermore, the previous work was freely distributed, and the cfg edits are also freely distributed.

A rough analogy would be screws. Someone invents a slotted/flat-head screw, and Mr. Robertson invents the Robertson screw. So I (the person making these cfg edits) come along and say, "We can make these work together nicely." A little while later, we have a slotted/Robertson hybrid screw. Best of both worlds, all-in-one. Then I release this lovely contraption and everyone wins. Ethically, and legally, this is sound. There's a very good reason why copyright law recognizes the special case of derivative works. (And furthermore, copyright law does NOT apply here, at least not US or Canadian law, because no profit is made from the modification to the previous work, and no harm is done. If anything, there is a net benefit to all concerned parties. To be so apoplectic about getting permission to edit someone else's edits is absurd.)

Edit: To be clear, what I'm aiming for is a cross-compatibility and balancing between mods that use electricity. It's not really doing anything all that new, aside from calculating power generation based on area, it's more of a fine-tuning of existing assets so they play nice together.

After reading this post, I REALLY want these edits. The electrical sector of this game is largely untapped and requires someone to pay attention to it. Sure, the Electrical Energy Plugin is great. I love it to death. But what is the point if there is no supports in place to make this mod truly shine? I would love nothing more than some innovation from the community. I am not able to do any modding in any sense of my own, editing .cfgs are just beyond my comprehension, that is why we need people to contribute if we want a fuller, more expansive experience from this game.

So, in after thought, if they don't allow you to post these edits publicly, please distribute them privately to my email. Because I would love to use them. Haha.

[KinkyFerrets]

I already have a pack of cfg edits finished for all of the Kosmoz panels, fold-out radiator, and MMI.S ion engine, battery, and panel.

Sorta off topic...BUT I'd love to see the old Salyut, TKS, etc docking nodes and panels from KOSMOS pack edited to work with one of the new docking mods and PowerTech.

[phoenix_ca]

After reading this post, I REALLY want these edits. The electrical sector of this game is largely untapped and requires someone to pay attention to it. Sure, the Electrical Energy Plugin is great. I love it to death. But what is the point if there is no supports in place to make this mod truly shine? I would love nothing more than some innovation from the community. I am not able to do any modding in any sense of my own, editing .cfgs are just beyond my comprehension, that is why we need people to contribute if we want a fuller, more expansive experience from this game.

So, in after thought, if they don't allow you to post these edits publicly, please distribute them privately to my email. Because I would love to use them. Haha.

And I want you to have them! In fact, I'd like to start an on-going project to tie together similar parts from various mods in a way that makes sense, so balance is achieved where appropriate. Mod devs will probably balance things out within their own mod, but there's no guarantee that that will hold when players add another mod that adds a few different parts with similar function. For example, take the battery from MMI.S, and the battery from the DSM mod. Both have the same capacity, but the DSM one is much larger, and much more massive. Strictly from a logical point of view, it'd make no sense to use the DSM version if you also have the MMI.S battery available. My goal is to just tweak a few numbers so that things make sense and we can all get the most out of the modders' parts.

I don't have much knowledge of C, and know nothing about the classes mods can use, so plugin development by me isn't much of a realistic option right now. However, I do a lot of Python programming for kicks, so cfg edits are trivial for me to do. I guess it's rather fitting; in the same way Python is used as a "glue" to hold together various parts of a larger program that are written in different languages, a well-thought-out pack of cfg edits that tweak values and settings across multiple mod packs can glue them all together into one harmonious whole. (The best analog I can think of off the top of my head is Obscuro's Oblivion Overhaul for TES IV. It wasn't so much as a new mod, as a massive collection of the community's mods all in one package, and rebalanced so they made sense and the game was still fun. Balancing a game in an of itself can be time-consuming, and as more parts pop up, it'll be a bigger and bigger project. Still, it's something I want to do if it'll benefit everyone involved.)

Sal: There are two ways I can interpret that minimalist set of rules posted, as it relates to projects like these that are simple cfg edits that tie different mods together, without including any of the other mod assets. (In other words, there's not really any stealing, so much as it is providing an alternate settings file to a part created by someone else. I don't see how this would be any sort of problem if credit to the original authors is given.) The intent seems to be to protect more complex works, such as plugins, models, textures, and so on, which I understand, and are worth protecting.

1) (This is what I think the intention is and is definitely preferred.) This would allow for a pack of cfg edits for the purpose of balancing multiple similar mods together. If a license is absolutely required (and really...what the heck am I licensing? A few characters of tweaks? O.o If I had to put anything on it I'd say "public domain" period and leave it at that, if I had a choice), and if a public domain license isn't acceptable, then the most restrictive license of the mods that the original cfg files come from would need to be applied to the entire pack.

2) (The more restrictive interpretation.) Such a pack would be banned entirely, because it would be impossible to redistribute those files as a single pack and license them under the same license. They would need to be separated into distinct packs that inherited the licensing from their respective mods, meaning the entire project would be separated into mini-packs, licensed differently.

The second would be a nightmare that I'm simply not willing to put-up with. I have a life, and school. *blinks* I'm amazed that my brain has to do these legal cartwheels to know whether or not I can share a few tweaks to settings files. O.o

Lastly, in any case, it would seem that a step-by-step guide on how to edit every cfg file to be rebalanced is actually not against the rules. No chance of me even considering such a thing because I wouldn't write it, and no one would use it if anyone did. Again, it'd be an organizational nightmare.

So help us out here. Is such a project okay to share here, or do I need to go elsewhere? (That, and I think I'd take offense if someone called my effort to keep mods playing well together a "cop out". )

Edited September 26, 2012 by phoenix_ca

[Frostiken]

I for one would prefer it if more members used a copyleft or opensource license for their stuff, but if they choose not to allow others to use their add-ons (without express permission at least) then we should respect their wishes.

But like I said - it's funny how the collective internet has no problem with classified government material being posted, with ripping music to tack to their Youtube video, to pirate high-end commercial software, to take pictures someone else made and use them as their avatar, and whenever "The Man" takes a hit like the 09 F9 code from way back when everyone celebrates it...

But Joe Blow's cheap mod is considered a sacred religious artifact, which makes it all a huge comical double-standard. Like he said, there's huge incompatibilities between mods. In any other modding community you'd just release your mod (which is more of a patch, really) and that would be it. But in this one, we're so paranoid that Joe Blow gets all his non-monetary glory that suddenly it's a huge f***ing deal? This is half the reason these goddamn mods are getting out of control. Take BigTrak and the Cart plugin. They both use two totally different plugins for no discernible reason whatsoever, and now they're completely incompatible because of it.

I tell people to play KSP and to download mods, but it's becoming an absurd task. I like what Tiberion is doing with the Novapunch pack, because it's commonizing and combining several mods into one package. That still leaves us with dozens and dozens of individual mods we have to download of varying degrees of compatibility. Understanding the Powertech / Zoxygene / Kethane / EEP / SolarNRG mods and what works with what and why you have 40 solar panels in the VAB but only three actually do anything is an annoyingly overcomplicated task and is way beyond the reasonable expectation of effort.

Pray tell me, what's the difference between me making a list of download links for all the mods, and me slapping all the mod contents into a single package and releasing that? What really is the huge goddamn deal? The number of mods (and the number of quality abandonware mods that are lurking beyond page 5) is getting out of control for a wimpy forum to work in managing them all, and something like Obscuro's Oblivion Overhaul (*spit* I'm angry I had to say the name of that wretched game) is going to be exactly what is needed.

[phoenix_ca]

Hey now, that was uncalled for.

I liked Oblivion and OOO.

Honestly though, you're right that it's becoming an absurd task, which is why I want to release my cfg edit pack (hopefully without someone coming in and dropping a nuke in my little compatibility party). The rules in place seem to be a reaction to more obvious jerk moves that aren't okay, like taking huge swaths of someone else's work, and incorporating it into their own without so much as a cursory nod to the original author. I'm a content creator too (I do photography) and tbh, I'm not terribly irked when someone uses a photo I took of them as a profile picture or whatever. But when someone takes my picture, cuts out the watermark, and doesn't even so much as mention me when people comment "Oh wow, that's an awesome photo!" ... that hurts, and the harm is even greater when the content producer is just one person with no other support structure to mitigate that loss.

[dishycourier]

But like I said...

Time out a second, if you will.

My very first post was almost EXACTLY the same as this thing, but the WHOLE POST was nuked and never existed. Instead of getting upset about it, I sent out an apology and immediately set about just making my own parts -- the config and the concept was already there, but the models and textures were really what needed to be done.

Here's the thing. Mods, although even when open source, still need to be attributed to their original creator, especially mods to be considered work in progress like... well... all of them. If you post a config edit without asking for permission, this is the result. Take it as a lesson and ask for help making models or ask for permission. No one is really going to fault you for it in the end if you manage to gracefully pull out of this and chalk it up to a noob mistake. I know YOU aren't the OP, but it sounds as if you might be missing the point in the first place.

Also, I know that you haven't found the proper edit for the Probodobodyne and BACE Kit panels I've already put out, because if you did, you'd have six working panels.

Here they are, with proper attribution to Nova and working with EE with realistic[ly arbitrary] power generation stats per panel size:

http://www./download.php?1ucqeo25kc9wtqv BK Panel (provides power, but might not deploy properly)

http://www./download.php?q6cngzatr3hcszf Probekit panels.

Beyond that, I have found MRZdynavolt works, Some of the Kosmos panels MIGHT work, and MMI works or WILL work soon. I have my own panels waiting, but those will have to do until I figure out Unity.

Try to remember that redistribution of mods is against the rules. It doesn't make sense, but it's just the way it is. I know that if you find a dead mod, maybe something can be worked around for that, but otherwise it's not kosher.

[phoenix_ca]

But, if you are obliged to make your own part models, plugins, and otherwise, for what should amount to a minor edit to a config file, there's no hope of ever balancing the various mods doing similar tasks so that they work together. It's an incredibly stupid multiplication of effort.

Also, Kosmos panels and radiators all work with SolarPanels_adv_PowerTech, MMI's panels work fine with it, and the MMI battery and ion engine can be updated to work with EEP instead of MuMechVariableTanks. This is why I'm trying to ascertain if I can post my edits here, or if they must go elsewhere. In any event, they're going up somewhere. I won't be deterred from my endeavour to provide everyone with some modicum of interoperability and balance between at least some of the electrical parts already available.