Mun Landing

[Scarecrow71]

So, it's been a while since I've played this, and I've gotten back into it.  And I am running into the same problem that a lot of new players have:  How the frak do I get to Mun and back?  I know I have issues with design, and I know I have issues with dV.  But I've done this before...and now I can't.  No matter what I do, I end up without enough dV to get to the Mun and back.  Here's some shots from a recent attempt.  First, the tech tree:

That's not all that impressive, but very do-able.  I know there are people who have done far more with far less in this game.  Now, the Lander:

Sitting in the VAB, she's got 2978 dV.  If she were in LKO, according to the charts and maps and videos I've seen, that should be more than enough to get her to the Mun and back.  And now the entire rocket.

That's 5539 dV sitting on the launchpad.  I know that when I launch, the 2978 shown for the lander goes up due to reduced weight of the craft, less pull from gravity the higher up you go, and less air resistance as the air gets thinner.  However, once I do the transfer to the Mun, this puppy has less than 2000 dV remaining, which is about 1000 less than I need to get there and back.

So, what am I doing wrong?  I don't know, which is why I'm out here asking.  I am not the greatest at gravity turns, and in the case of this thing, if I start turning at 75.0 m/s, she wobbles way off course and then eventually passes Ap and starts heading down towards the surface.  So I have taken to not starting the turn east until I hit 10,000 meters, at which point I hit 45 degrees at about 23,000 meters.  And that's stable enough to get me to LKO.  I am quite certain that part of the answer here is "Pick up Flight Control and throw a reaction wheel on this thing somewhere"...but I can't.  I am attempting to take on the Kerpollo Challenge, primarily because I've never been beyond Minmus before.  I want to push myself, and right now I can't even get one foot out the door.

I know that there are design issues here, but I don't know how to correct them.  I hate that the lander is far too vertical, which is probably part of the problem.  But I'm not sure how to flatten it out to and keep the dV I have.  I also am aware of the "moar boosters" method, which I'm not opposed to...but again still unsure how to effectively make it work.  Whenever I add weight, whether through engines or fuel or whatever, the dV goes down (which I fully expect; more weight = more thrust needed to reach the same speed and all).

I hope I've stated all of this properly.  My issue, at least through my own lens, is design.  But I can't seem to crack the code on what to do to become more effective at this.  Anybody got some pointers to throw my way to help me out here?  I know I've done this before; I'm just not sure how I did it, or how to do it again.

[Kapitalizing Every Word]

I can say that your mun lander design is a little bit too big you could use a waaaaay smaller design and I recommend that you try to do it some times and don't completly trust delta-v planners
I also recommend you have a series of stages for a Mun rocket:

1. Main booster and side boosters bring your apopapsis above the atmosphere (and circularise if you can) to make it better use moar fins moar struts moar boosters
2. circularasing and transfer stage this stage circularises in kerbin transfers you to the Mun and circularises there.
3. lander it should have enough Delta-V to land orbit the mun and transfer back to kerbin using aerobraking.
   
   Also It requires trial and error so I recommend a cup of coffee and a few spare hours
   Hope I could help

[antipro]

My old and unique munar landing ship:
The Mun Lander
3856 dV at sea level
6099 dV in Vacuum

Edited October 22, 2021 by antipro

[Scarecrow71]

So, I'm going to partially answer my own question.  After doing some looking and thinking and reading, u realize I'm trying to do too much with the first stage.  I need to add a transfer stage between the orbit and lander stages.

Yes, I am an idiot at times.