Discovery Mode

[Palisade]

I would love to start up KSP 2 for the first time in what I call 'Discovery Mode'.

A cross between Science Mode and Career mode, Discovery mode would start players with 1 thing: an engine. No planetary information, little information on parts until they are tested, no atmospheric information. Nothing. Just some cash and the willingness to shoot for the stars.

The first engine would be provided by a 'partner' company of the players choosing, all of which provide a small bonus for the life of the partnership. Examples include: Cheaper fuel from an Oligarch Company,  Cheaper Engines and Control Parts by an Aerospace Manufacturer, Stronger Communication Parts from a Communications Company, etc. This company would pay the player to 'test' the engine, thus unlocking its statistics and earning a small lump sum payment to begin their career.

As they ramp up the capabilities of their rockets and better the relationship with partners, they will start to discover the planet details in their solar system with satellite surveys, atmospheric probes, etc.

 

I love the zero-to-hero approach of some RPG games, and KSP is set up perfectly for something like this.

Just my two cents! Looking forward to KSP2 - keep up the great work, devs!

[Toasty Dyna-Soar]

Sounds interesting!

I think KSP2 will just continue with the regular sandbox, adventure, etc. types of game modes. Yet I do think a mod could be made for this to happen just like RP-1. If a mod for this is made, I would happily play it (since my computer can barely handle RP-1 with reasonable fps) as a substitute for it.

Edited February 3, 2022 by YouvebeenhitbyRUD
Changed career to adventure

[Ember12]

25 minutes ago, YouvebeenhitbyRUD said:

I think KSP2 will just continue with the regular sandbox, career, etc. types of game modes.

From what I've heard, KSP2 is planned to have something called "Adventure Mode" sorta like the current career mode, but with less of the grinding.  The process of earning funds is supposed to become a lot more fun, with more interesting contracts and achievements and such.

[shdwlrd]

The science and career modes will be replaced with what the devs are calling adventure mode. There is no info that has been released so far. Now with that out of the way. (A common disclaimer I will add with any mention of a career or science modes.)

That type of start will drive away new players and any veteran players who disliked science and/or career modes. I mean, the Kerbals live on the planet, they have observed the planets in their solar system, they should have an idea about what planets and moons are in their star system, and their general properties. If KSP2 is an continuation of KSP1, then you are stripping out everything the Kerbals have done in KSP1 for no good reason. You are also making the game way too grindy and complicated just for the sake of grind and complexity. Adding to the fact that you'll have to discover new technologies, fuels, solar systems and exoplanets. It doesn't sound like a fun game to me.

[Toasty Dyna-Soar]

23 hours ago, shdwlrd said:

The science and career modes will be replaced with what the devs are calling adventure mode. There is no info that has been released so far. Now with that out of the way. (A common disclaimer I will add with any mention of a career or science modes.)

That type of start will drive away new players and any veteran players who disliked science and/or career modes. I mean, the Kerbals live on the planet, they have observed the planets in their solar system, they should have an idea about what planets and moons are in their star system, and their general properties. If KSP2 is an continuation of KSP1, then you are stripping out everything the Kerbals have done in KSP1 for no good reason. You are also making the game way too grindy and complicated just for the sake of grind and complexity. Adding to the fact that you'll have to discover new technologies, fuels, solar systems and exoplanets. It doesn't sound like a fun game to me.

Yeah, I totally agree with you. Yet some people like that grind and made it even more "grindier" and realistic with mods like RP-1 so I guess some people maybe would enjoy it.

Edited February 4, 2022 by YouvebeenhitbyRUD

[Catto]

Cool

 

 

 

 

(i like sandbox career, like you have inf money and parts yet it still has some career mechanics)

[shdwlrd]

2 hours ago, YouvebeenhitbyRUD said:

Yeah, I totally agree with you. Yet some people like that grind and made it even more "grindier" and realistic, so I guess some people maybe would enjoy it.

I don't know how anyone would like a boring grind without getting paid for it, but to each their own I guess. It's an option, not a good one for everyone. Maybe a mod, but not an option for stock. 

[Ahres]

16 hours ago, shdwlrd said:

The science and career modes will be replaced with what the devs are calling adventure mode. There is no info that has been released so far. Now with that out of the way. (A common disclaimer I will add with any mention of a career or science modes.)

That type of start will drive away new players and any veteran players who disliked science and/or career modes. I mean, the Kerbals live on the planet, they have observed the planets in their solar system, they should have an idea about what planets and moons are in their star system, and their general properties. If KSP2 is an continuation of KSP1, then you are stripping out everything the Kerbals have done in KSP1 for no good reason. You are also making the game way too grindy and complicated just for the sake of grind and complexity. Adding to the fact that you'll have to discover new technologies, fuels, solar systems and exoplanets. It doesn't sound like a fun game to me.

I have to laugh because I'm frequently reminded on these forums that @shdwlrd and I are almost polar opposites. Frankly, I think this type of start would be perfect for new players because they would learn about each part and each celestial body and not be intimidated by the myriad parts that will be at our disposal. And, as a veteran player, it's appealing to me as well because I'm always enticed by a "fresh start" or "clean slate" and really building up and developing my space program's capabilities.

I'm also not sure you can say you're "stripping out everything the Kerbals have done in KSP1". If you could continue your KSP1 save in KSP2 then maybe this would have some merit. But I fully expect adventure mode to start with only a handful of parts and little/no information on any celestial bodies - even Kerbolar ones. So, sticking with the polar opposites theme here, I think that does sound like a fun game to me.

[BekfastDerp13]

45 minutes ago, Ahres said:

I have to laugh because I'm frequently reminded on these forums that @shdwlrd and I are almost polar opposites. Frankly, I think this type of start would be perfect for new players because they would learn about each part and each celestial body and not be intimidated by the myriad parts that will be at our disposal. And, as a veteran player, it's appealing to me as well because I'm always enticed by a "fresh start" or "clean slate" and really building up and developing my space program's capabilities.

I'm also not sure you can say you're "stripping out everything the Kerbals have done in KSP1". If you could continue your KSP1 save in KSP2 then maybe this would have some merit. But I fully expect adventure mode to start with only a handful of parts and little/no information on any celestial bodies - even Kerbolar ones. So, sticking with the polar opposites theme here, I think that does sound like a fun game to me.

It would be interesting for a realistic space program. Telescopes would actually have a use and atmospheric data could help you design more aerodynamic rockets.

[t_v]

I agree that you should start with very little options but I am highly against grinding. This doesn’t mean the progression has to be short, as I’ve seen some long progression systems that mostly keep out the grind. My personal definition of a Grundy game is one that, in order to get gratification/ progression, you are forced to do an activity that you would rather not do for a meaningful amount of time. A non-grindy game should always allow you to make meaningful progress even while performing less time-intensive things. Of course, there is a limit to that, as you can’t fit every imaginable type of gameplay in a game, and some games will be about specific things that will be grindy to some people. KSP 1 science mode does this pretty well, as you don’t need to fly a specific type of mission to get more science- both tiny probes and massive motherships can collect some amount of science to advance. In contrast, to progress in Career, you need funds (which is not inherently bad) but the ways to get those funds are limited and oftentimes repetitive. Some contract packs have helped with that by increasing the frequency of cool missions, but the system is still flawed. The proposal to discover planets does not add grind, as long as you can discover new planets in a reasonable way. If the only way to discover a planet is to have a dedicated planet-finding mission, then that is pretty grindy, but if bringing telescopes along for another mission (to take pictures of moons and planets up close) results in the discovery of nearby planets, that would be much better because you could progress while flying a completely different mission type. 
 

And to answer the question of why discover planets at all, it is for the same reason as unlocking parts. When I played science mode for the first time, I got an idea of what all the parts do and stopped using NERVs for my first stage. Planets could do the same thing, teaching players slowly by revealing more content and more challenges to go along with it. 

[shdwlrd]

4 hours ago, Ahres said:

I have to laugh because I'm frequently reminded on these forums that @shdwlrd and I are almost polar opposites.

There's nothing wrong with disagreeing with opinions, as long as it remains civil. 

I can see both sides of this, but the problem is we have no idea how Intercept intends on implementing their Adventure mode. It's unknown in what time period they want to start at? Does Intercept want to start where the Kerbal know nothing about space travel. (How KSP1 starts.) Or are they starting the game after the Kerbals finished exploring their star system. (The current end/sandbox of KSP1.) We just don't know. But that only affects what parts you start with.

The Kerbals themselves, there are a few ways players see them. Some people see the Kerbals as dumb olfs that miraculously can build working rockets but are ignorant to the world around them. (Only good for blowing up.) Some people see Kerbals as intelligent but a little too enthusiastic/reckless with their exploration of space. (This is how the devs describe the Kerbals by the way.) Some people see Kerbals as little green representations of humans with all our virtues and flaws. 

Only one of these descriptions make the Kerbals idiots that don't know anything. The others would have a excellent knowledge of Kerbin and a decent enough knowledge of their star system. (At least enough to know what planets are in the Kerbol system and approximate properties of each planet.) 

So this type of start, in part, doesn't fit what the devs think of the Kerbals nor does it fit in line to how, in my opinion, the devs see the current state of the Kerbals technological development. 

Edited February 3, 2022 by shdwlrd

[Vl3d]

I think curiosity is the best motivation to explore the unknown. Information about the universe is valuable in itself at the beginning. That's why I would love to start by knowing nothing and explore (each planet) through science which would offer useful data for game play. Technological progression fueled by wanting to explore scientifically + interesting story with mysteries/rumors of alien life, breath taking scenery, planets that I don't want to leave because I am curious what is beyond the next hill + economic incentive (to build bigger, to find resources, to escape the solar system and colonize). I have read too often that KSP 1 is an empty place and that there was so much potential left on the table. I really want a dense universe full of interesting places to visit (not just interesting planets).