KSP1 Computer Building/Buying Megathread

[Drunken Hobo]

Got my new monitor, built the stand, plugged it in and switched it on... nothing. No matter how hard I pressed the button it doesn't go on. I suspected it was broken - it came in a box without any fragile signs and very little padding. Seemed quite poorly built - the button barely went in when pressed and didn't even click. Then I looked round the back of the monitor and found a whole row of buttons... I'd been pressing the LED power light.

[Mr. Scruffy]

Is that the one, that comes with integrated webcam and internet for the manufacturers amusement?

[Joshwoo70]

Custom built computer

CPU: i5 3570

RAM: 16GB DDR3 (certainly able to run a minecraft 4gb pack! with server!)

GPU: GTX 650

OS: Win 8.1 64bit

Keyboard: AK-770i Armaggeddon

Mouse: GMX-9 Powerlogic

SPACE! 2TB disk drive

(if any questions PM me )

[cantab]

Why the last-gen hardware? The CPU and GPU have both been succeeded by newer models.

[Slam_Jones]

Custom built computer

CPU: i5 3570

RAM: 16GB DDR3 (certainly able to run a minecraft 4gb pack! with server!)

GPU: GTX 650

OS: Win 8.1 64bit

Keyboard: AK-770i Armaggeddon

Mouse: GMX-9 Powerlogic

SPACE! 2TB disk drive

(if any questions PM me )

You should think about upgrading that GPU, it's pretty lacking compared to the rest of the system.

[Camacha]

Where is the SSD? No serious modern system can go without.

[DuoDex]

Where is the SSD? No serious modern system can go without.

Nope. SSDs are nice, but not quite essential. Yet.

[DuoDex]

Where is the SSD? No serious modern system can go without.

Nope. SSDs are nice, but not quite essential. Yet.

[Camacha]

Nope. SSDs are nice, but not quite essential. Yet.

Not essential in the sense that you cannot possibly live without one, but they are, by now, so cheap and fast that it is quite ridiculous to buy anything but the slowest, cheapest hardware and not have one to help things zipping along. SSDs are not for just the fastest systems any more, by now you have to have a good reason not to have one.

In this case: just look at the specifications mentioned - a high end i5 and 16 GB of RAM, but a regular HDD to slow things right back down? That is tremendously counter-productive. Though much slower systems would still benefit in a major way, even run-of-the-mill office work computers will put a SSD to good use. Not to mention it is a Minecraft computer. The almost continuous data streaming means a SSD will yield fairly a big performance boost compared to a HDD.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Camacha

[g00bd0g]

Anyone played on a new DELL XPS 13 or comparable system? Looks pretty sweet as a mobile ksp platform

http://www.dell.com/us/p/xps-13-9343-laptop/pd?oc=dncwt5130s&model_id=xps-13-9343-laptop

[Camacha]

Anyone played on a new DELL XPS 13 or comparable system? Looks pretty sweet as a mobile ksp platform

http://www.dell.com/us/p/xps-13-9343-laptop/pd?oc=dncwt5130s&model_id=xps-13-9343-laptop

2,2 to 2,7 GHz on Broadwell is pretty average for a laptop, but nothing special in terms of absolute performance. It will probably not be terrible, but a cheap desktop will typically outperform it.

[g00bd0g]

2,2 to 2,7 GHz on Broadwell is pretty average for a laptop, but nothing special in terms of absolute performance. It will probably not be terrible, but a cheap desktop will typically outperform it.

Just hoping it will be decent, so I can play KSP when I'm on the road. Tired of lugging my 19" laptop around

[Captain H@dock]

In case you're still wondering, I'm playing on an august 2013 XPS (i7-3687U, 8Gb RAM, 512 SSD, Intel HD 4000, FullHD) on windows.

I don't think you can play at 1080 (it feels laggy), i'm at 720 with (i guess) average graphic quality (no surface artifacts). I could check my graphic options if you want to make sure. Apart from light heavy environments (tier3 runway at night with all the tier3 building in the background....), the framerate is fine. I've never had problems in space or on moons but I think my ship/stations are always less than 300/400 parts. All in all, i'd say it's more graphic limited than anything else, but I could be wrong. Huge perf impact when you move to power saving (especially on loading times).

IMPORTANT: The fan will spool up to full speed when playing KSP. Continuously. I've had the same when playing other games. And the laptop will get hot. Playable hot, but hot. If you've on a bad surface (soft or fabric), it will overheat (and perf will degrade). That being said, I got away with 8 hours KSP sessions with no issues just by putting a small spacer under the screen hinge. You won't overheat as long as you make sure the air-vents and the airflow are un-obstructed.

This is an ultrabook, you should expect that (ie. Don't buy an ultrabook solely for playing games)

Now, I've had more issues with this laptop in the year and half since I bought it than with any of my previous Dell laptops (had to replace the power adapter after 3 months, the screen had a minor defect, the touch-pad on this series is infamous, WiFi isn't the best in terms of range and reliability, and I've got a keyboard key that now jumps off sometime (could argue it is due to too much playing)). Definitely less than what I came to expect from dell. Too bad as it's a very nice ultrabook. So I would not suggest it to anybody, unlike my old M1330. Or maybe with the 3 year warranty.

[Drunken Hobo]

In case you're still wondering, I'm playing on an august 2013 XPS (i7-3687U, 8Gb RAM, 512 SSD, Intel HD 4000, FullHD) on windows.

A 512 MB SSD in 2013? That alone must have cost at least £500. Yet no dedicated graphics card at all? That seems like a very strange system to me, what was it's intended purpose?

[Red Iron Crown]

A 512 MB SSD in 2013? That alone must have cost at least £500. Yet no dedicated graphics card at all? That seems like a very strange system to me, what was it's intended purpose?

My bet is it's a laptop, that's a mobile CPU.

[cantab]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultrabook

Basically it's about being thin and light and oooh shiny, without being potato-bad on the performance front like a netbook. Kinda like the PC version of a Macbook Air.

[Camacha]

If you've on a bad surface (soft or fabric), it will overheat (and perf will degrade).

Never put a laptop on fabric or anything that isolates, especially when it is crunching away. Laptops are designed to transport heat away through vents, but also the housing, so if you cover almost half of its surface area with something isolating you are asking for trouble. With laptops it is doubly important to clean the dust, keep vents clear and make sure it is on a preferably hard and non-isolating surface.

Putting a laptop in your actual lap is a bad idea for a whole host of reasons, many of them associated with your personal health. Make sure you use them properly seated, it is better for you and it is better for the laptop.

[Drunken Hobo]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultrabook

Basically it's about being thin and light and oooh shiny, without being potato-bad on the performance front like a netbook. Kinda like the PC version of a Macbook Air.

Ah, makes sense. I had assumed ultrabooks were just flattened netbooks. That's an impressive amount of performance for something so small (I'll omit he obvious punchline).

I suppose a dedicated GPU would double the amount of cooling you'd need, and it wouldn't be quite so ultra thin any more. Although I'm not so sure about an SSD as the only form of storage. Wouldn't that limit it's lifespan quite significantly?

[Camacha]

I suppose a dedicated GPU would double the amount of cooling you'd need, and it wouldn't be quite so ultra thin any more. Although I'm not so sure about an SSD as the only form of storage. Wouldn't that limit it's lifespan quite significantly?

Are you one of those people that believes SSD's have a limited life span in a practical and relevant way? Because that is a fable, a hoax. Even with excessive writing day in and out, your expected life span on a small drive will be between 8 and 30 years, with 30 years being more likely than 8. Not only is that well beyond the technical and economical life span of almost any device, it is also well beyond what platter based media would reasonably do. Without excessive writing, your computer will be replaced many times over before you will run into trouble, and the larger the SSD, the longer the life span.

The limited life span of SSDs is a haox, a scary story people tell each other. Some teething problems aside, even an enthusiast power user is never going to come close to running into any technical boundary. It is pure fantasy. People worry sick about wearing their SSDs out, but in practice, you never hear of cases where this actually was an issue.

This story belongs in the same book Cinderella and Beauty and the Beast go Just enjoy your SSD, do not artificially limit yourself by turning off normal features and be happy.

Edited March 25, 2015 by Camacha

[Drunken Hobo]

Are you one of those people that believes SSD's have a limited life span in a practical and relevant way? Because that is a fable, a hoax. Even with excessive writing day in and out, your expected life span on a small drive will be between 8 and 30 years, with 30 years being more likely than 8. Not only is that well beyond the technical and economical life span of almost any device, it is also well beyond what platter based media would reasonably do. Without excessive writing, your computer will be replaced many times over before you will run into trouble, and the larger the SSD, the longer the life span.

The limited life span of SSDs is a haox, a scary story people tell each other. Some teething problems aside, even an enthusiast power user is never going to come close to running into any technical boundary. It is pure fantasy. People worry sick about wearing their SSDs out, but in practice, you never hear of cases where this actually was an issue.

This story belongs in the same book Cinderella and Beauty and the Beast go Just enjoy your SSD, do not artificially limit yourself by turning off normal features and be happy.

Do you work for an SSD manufacturer by any chance? I'm on to you...

Don't have an SSD myself as I don't see much point yet. I had just heard the usual horror stories of them going kaput within a year under heavy use. I suppose HDDs fail all the time and people hardly think mention it, but when an SSD fails it's the fault of the scary new technology.

[Camacha]

Do you work for an SSD manufacturer by any chance? I'm on to you...

Nope, I am just tired of hearing made up stories that everyone repeats without knowing what is what.

Don't have an SSD myself as I don't see much point yet. I had just heard the usual horror stories of them going kaput within a year under heavy use. I suppose HDDs fail all the time and people hardly think mention it, but when an SSD fails it's the fault of the scary new technology.

Exactly that. SSD's should in theory be much more resilient than HDDs, but the difference in technology maturity means the numbers are actually about the same. Let me ask you this: do you know people that lost valuable data, photos and whatnot because of a HDD failure? If you are anything like the general public, you know more than one, probably many. How many people do you know that lost data because of SSD failure? Probably a lot less.

Again, statistics say they currently are about as reliable, but somehow the SSD stories are made much bigger than the HDD ones.

[Red Iron Crown]

Are you one of those people that believes SSD's have a limited life span in a practical and relevant way? Because that is a fable, a hoax.

In a certain way it used to be true, though not because of limited writes. Many manufacturers struggled to produce good controllers and firmware causing an alarmingly high failure rate in early consumer SSDs compared to the more mature consumer HDDs. Those issues seem to be resolved at this point by the better manufacturers, so if one doesn't scrape the bottom of the barrel it should not be an issue.

As to the write limit, I agree that it is a real thing but very unlikely to be significant before the drive is retired. Techreport just finished up a fairly epic 18-month SSD endurance test, the results are pretty impressive: The worst SSD did not fail until over 700TB of writes had been done, and the longest lasting drive hit well over 2000TB. Unless you are constantly writing at full speed to the drive (an unlikely scenario for a consumer drive) it's likely to last a decade or more of use.

That doesn't even consider all the other benefits of SSDs: lower power use, lower noise, better vibration and temperature resistance (especially important in laptops), and most of all, better performance. It is worth making sacrifices elsewhere in the system to fit an SSD in the budget, IMO.

[Camacha]

In a certain way it used to be true, though not because of limited writes.

Those would be the teething problems I mentioned before.

That doesn't even consider all the other benefits of SSDs: lower power use, lower noise, better vibration and temperature resistance (especially important in laptops), and most of all, better performance. It is worth making sacrifices elsewhere in the system to fit an SSD in the budget, IMO.

Even with normal, office type computers a SSD it worth the investment. Like I said elsewhere, I cannot imagine building anything but the slowest, cheapest computer imaginable and not having a SSD. It is ridiculous to update to new hardware, only to omit that one part that will really make it all sing. HDDs are, and have been, the bottleneck for quite a while now, and SSDs are the cure.

For huge amounts of bulk storage, sure, go with a traditional HDD, but a SSD should always be the starting point.

[Superfluous J]

Don't have an SSD myself as I don't see much point yet. I had just heard the usual horror stories of them going kaput within a year under heavy use. I suppose HDDs fail all the time and people hardly think mention it, but when an SSD fails it's the fault of the scary new technology.

Yeah it's like when a couple Teslas had engine fires (which were minor and detected by the car before the driver even knew there was a problem) and prople were all like "OMG electric cars are scary" as if GASOLINE didn't also have a tendency to ignite.

[cantab]

Putting a laptop in your actual lap is a bad idea for a whole host of reasons, many of them associated with your personal health. Make sure you use them properly seated, it is better for you and it is better for the laptop.

If I need to use one on my lap then something flat and rigid to put under it helps. Large but thin books, like the Dorling Kindersley kids science books, do well.

As for drive failures, to be honest they're rare with either mechanical or solid state drives. I think I've known two or three hard drives fail myself. One of those was in a music player that got slung in my coat pocket every day, the others were in the office computers so that's a couple of failures in five years from a pool of 50-100 PCs.

Now USB sticks, *those* break easily especially junky ones, and they get file system corruption even more easily.