Content Creators Early Access?

[tstein]

Just now, GoldForest said:

Ouch, shots fired!

It is just a statement  of factual logic, people that have time for real life iteraction are very likely less busy than people that do not have such luxury ( of course there are exceptions but in a general sense it is cohesive reason)

[Snark]

The forum is very good for doing forum things.  The Discord is very good for doing chat-type things.  They're apples and oranges, and debating which is "better" is like asking which is better, a pencil or a screwdriver.  They serve different purposes, and neither is a viable substitute for the other.

12 hours ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

It doesn't have to be one or the other, both serve separate purposes. Forums call for long form broad discussion while discord offers quick  frequent banter and greater ability to flow through topics

^ This.

20 hours ago, R-T-B said:

But if they close the forums it would be a major loss.

Not gonna happen, the Discord is not even vaguely a substitute for the forums.  The forums are a going concern, shall continue to be so, and will continue to fill the role that they've done up to now.

(Also, bear in mind that the Discord's not even particularly new.  KSP already had a chat platform on IRC, and it was well used for a long time, it just gradually kinda tapered off.  The Discord is just an updated, more modern platform as a replacement for IRC.  It's not a replacement for the forum, nor is it intended to be.)

Not sure how the idea of "oh noes the forum is going to go away" even got traction, here-- it's not happening, and nobody who actually knows anything has said it would.  So you can rest easy on that score. 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, tstein said:

It is just a statement  of factual logic

Nah, just good old elitism.

One could argue that following and participating in a forum takes more time and effort than casually frequenting a chat.

Different tools with different uses.

 

Got a good laugh though, it was years since I've last heard the "people that are busy in real life"  argument. The funniest part is that probably most of nowadays life gets organized over group chats.

 

16 minutes ago, Snark said:

Not gonna happen, the Discord is not even vaguely a substitute for the forums. 

This, 63 pages of discussion on multiplayer that's mostly new people repeating what was already said a couple pages earlier tell me that forums are volatile enough as it is. Trying to do the same in a Discord with thousands of other members means that every single discussion will always start from the beginning over and over again, and, even in the rare case in which evolves past that, it will be forgotten in a couple of hours and restarted the next day.

Chats are just too volatile to replace the kind of discussion happening here, I wouldn't feel threatened by them. 

[tstein]

14 minutes ago, Master39 said:

Nah, just good old elitism.

One could argue that following and participating in a forum takes more time and effort than casually frequenting a chat.

Different tools with different uses.

 

Got a good laugh though, it was years since I've last heard the "people that are busy in real life"  argument. The funniest part is that probably most of nowadays life gets organized over group chats.

 

This, 63 pages of discussion on multiplayer that's mostly new people repeating what was already said a couple pages earlier tell me that forums are volatile enough as it is. Trying to do the same in a Discord with thousands of other members means that every single discussion will always start from the beginning over and over again, and, even in the rare case in which evolves past that, it will be forgotten in a couple of hours and restarted the next day.

Chats are just too volatile to replace the kind of discussion happening here, I wouldn't feel threatened by them. 

Not elitism at all. Most people can access a forum  during work. Discord is blocked in every single company I  worked with (it is heavily associated with gaming  by most IT departments).  I could always check  forums while at work my entire life.. open a chat.. unthinkable.

[Snark]

It's also worth noting that not only do the forum and the Discord serve different purposes, but they also tend to appeal to different people. And that's fine, and does not in any way indicate that one platform or one type of person is somehow "better" than the other. They're just different, is all.

For example, I'm pretty much the epitome of what you might call a "forum person". I like it here. It's my comfort zone. That's because I don't like engaging in rapid-fire realtime; I like to read detailed points, mull them over, consider a response, and then answer in detail. It's just how my brain works. I've tried stepping into the Discord, and almost immediately my head explodes and I have to make a beeline for the exit. Clearly the Discord is not the place for me, and I doubt I'll be spending time there.

But that doesn't mean it's bad. It just means that it's not for me, just as the IRC wasn't the place for me back in the day. When I was in the Discord, I observed many people happily chattering away, clearly enjoying themselves, and they appeared to be in their element. Clearly, it was serving their needs quite well, and providing them a mode of engagement that works for their brains.  I wouldn't be surprised if some of them may have tried the forum and found it stilted, slow, or constraining.

Different people like different things. Some, like me, will prefer the forum. Others will prefer the Discord. Some folks may be comfortable with both, and use both.

It's fine if you like one platform over the other. I sure do. But I sure hope folks don't assume that the platform they personally like is somehow "better", or that they're somehow better than folks who prefer the other platform.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, tstein said:

Not elitism at all. Most people can access a forum  during work. Discord is blocked in every single company I  worked with (it is heavily associated with gaming  by most IT departments).  I could always check  forums while at work my entire life.. open a chat.. unthinkable.

In your country, in your line of work, in the small subset of companies you worked with in the past 7 years or so (more like 3 or 4, it wasn't that popular at launch).

A far cry from "people that have a life to worry with".

 

8 minutes ago, Snark said:

like it here. It's my comfort zone. That's because I don't like engaging in rapid-fire realtime; I like to read detailed points, mull them over, consider a response, and then answer in detail. It's just how my brain works. I've tried stepping into the Discord, and almost immediately my head explodes and I have to make a beeline for the exit. Clearly the Discord is not the place for me, and I doubt I'll be spending time there.

And Discord isn't the same all around. I was overwhelmed too by the KSP2 one, and never even opened it again after the initial scroll through.

On the other hand I'm in a small discord for the Fandom I write fanfic for, and it's a cozy place. Interesting people, no drama, good content, and a strict but friendly moderation team.

[tstein]

35 minutes ago, Master39 said:

In your country, in your line of work, in the small subset of companies you worked with in the past 7 years or so (more like 3 or 4, it wasn't that popular at launch).

A far cry from "people that have a life to worry with".

 

 

Not talking about KSp forum, talking in general. I have my own company and I know what the industry standards are and it is  vastly  adherent that discord is not allowed in most offices at all. Almost every single  generic black list of softwares that IT people usually  block have discord (due to  the previously mentioned preconception  developed around it).

 

Also  it is impossible to say that  a real time communication form will not demand more resources than an asynchronous on  idle one. There is even  a whole field of math  and computer science that proves  it and that is taken into account when designing every  information system around. Real time (i.e you are not looking  when event came you miss the train) is   inherently more time consuming (if you want to participate obviously, if  you do not care to make inputs then  it is irrelevant).

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

2 hours ago, Snark said:

how the idea of "oh noes the forum is going to go awa

That wasn't my concern.  The concern is that the forums are now last in line, if not an afterthought for release of content.  We had to ask Ghostii to create a thread here because many don't use tick-spy or insta-datagrab.  Now content is being posted originally to Discord. 

The trend is away from the forums - which has been the primary place we have all come to watch development over the past three years. 

That is what I don't like 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, tstein said:

Not talking about KSp forum, talking in general. I have my own company and I know what the industry standards are and it is  vastly  adherent that discord is not allowed in most offices at all. Almost every single  generic black list of softwares that IT people usually  block have discord (due to  the previously mentioned preconception  developed around it).

You know that most people don't work in offices, right?

Or in place that forbid you from using your personal phone? Or your personal laptop?

You're generalizing a specific situation, and that can end up offending people when it wasn't your original intent.

Unless you're actually trying to argue that people that don't work for a big company that has a draconian IT department don't have a life.

 

1 hour ago, tstein said:

Also  it is impossible to say that  a real time communication form will not demand more resources than an asynchronous on  idle one. There is even  a whole field of math  and computer science that proves  it and that is taken into account when designing every  information system around. Real time (i.e you are not looking  when event came you miss the train) is   inherently more time consuming (if you want to participate obviously, if  you do not care to make inputs then  it is irrelevant).

This is where the "different tools with different purposes" bit of the arguments comes into play.

You can't have the same kind of interaction on a forum vs on a chat, so the raw amount of information is irrelevant. The kind of talking and discussions you can have on the two different platforms is completely different.

 

[K^2]

13 hours ago, Snark said:

It's also worth noting that not only do the forum and the Discord serve different purposes, but they also tend to appeal to different people.

Totally get it from marketing perspective. It's just when some new info shows up only on Discord, fossils like me feel left out. But them's the times, I guess. People do post links here eventually. And I'll probably have to get on the Discord for mod API support anyways.

[SingABrightSong]

20 hours ago, tstein said:

Not talking about KSp forum, talking in general. I have my own company and I know what the industry standards are and it is  vastly  adherent that discord is not allowed in most offices at all. Almost every single  generic black list of softwares that IT people usually  block have discord (due to  the previously mentioned preconception  developed around it).

 

Also  it is impossible to say that  a real time communication form will not demand more resources than an asynchronous on  idle one. There is even  a whole field of math  and computer science that proves  it and that is taken into account when designing every  information system around. Real time (i.e you are not looking  when event came you miss the train) is   inherently more time consuming (if you want to participate obviously, if  you do not care to make inputs then  it is irrelevant).

I'd imagine that, while Discord is certainly present on generic black-lists, Slack is not, being commonly used for internal networks.

I'd also posit that forums or message boards in general are only absent from blacklists because each message board is a unique website and thus not feasibly blocked by any sort of blacklist. A unified service that hosted message boards on various topics under a single website, e.g. Reddit, would almost certainly be generically blacklisted, with the one exception I can think of being StackExchange, and that's only because preventing your technicians from accessing StackOverflow is a good way to catastrophically degrade the quality of their work.

[tstein]

2 hours ago, SingABrightSong said:

I'd imagine that, while Discord is certainly present on generic black-lists, Slack is not, being commonly used for internal networks.

I'd also posit that forums or message boards in general are only absent from blacklists because each message board is a unique website and thus not feasibly blocked by any sort of blacklist. A unified service that hosted message boards on various topics under a single website, e.g. Reddit, would almost certainly be generically blacklisted, with the one exception I can think of being StackExchange, and that's only because preventing your technicians from accessing StackOverflow is a good way to catastrophically degrade the quality of their work.

Obviously,  completely in agreement there.