Flight Clamp-o-Tron docking port stopped working.

[Anth]

10 hours ago, BechMeister said:

I dont know if this is a known issue or if i should make yet another bug report?

That would be appreciated

[BechMeister]

@gluckezand @Anth12 the inline and shielded ports still have this issue yes.

I can only recall having this issue on inlined parts except once. And that was the original drone who's port was broken. That was a regular Clamp-o-Tron.

At least i trickered the "docked but not docked" bug pretty easy and resolved it by using forcing the shielded port to undock via action command.

@Anth12 was it ever tested if using an action to undock on broken clamp-o-tron on the drone would fix it?

 

That being said, i paused with on every undock, and it did not break the craft into pieces. And i have had multiple crafts around a station without them falling a part. 

 

So we may be out of the woods with that?

Edited September 3, 2023 by BechMeister

[Anth]

1 hour ago, BechMeister said:

That being said, i paused with on every undock, and it did not break the craft into pieces. And i have had multiple crafts around a station without them falling a part. 

 

So we may be out of the woods with that?

I am extremely tempted to put that bug report into the archive.
All my testing indicated that it was fixed even if the KERB update said it wasn't.
They might have accidentally fixed it, fixing some of the others.

Edited September 3, 2023 by Anth12

[Anth]

1 hour ago, BechMeister said:

@gluckezand @Anth12 the inline and shielded ports still have this issue yes.

I can only recall having this issue on inlined parts except once. And that was the original drone who's port was broken. That was a regular Clamp-o-Tron.

At least i trickered the "docked but not docked" bug pretty easy and resolved it by using forcing the shielded port to undock via action command.

Can you clarify what you are talking about here? Looking back on the conversation before we were talking about decouplers being attached to docking ports.
But we were also talking about inline and shielded docking ports as well. Might be my fault jumping around causes/topics.

[BechMeister]

Certainly - I may also just have phrased it poorly.

I have experienced 2 ways a port can be rendered broken:

A. A craft "falls off" a Clamp-O-Tron Inline or a Clamp-O-Tron Shielded - Theory: The port is locked in a docked stage even if it has "undocked" - some times the craft that fell off the inline port will still react to the SAS of the craft said port is on. Other times it will register as its own separate craft. - why this is I have no idea.

keep in mind that the craft mostly fall off in the background when you are timewarping because you control another craft that is rendezvous-ing with the station. - So I have never seen it happen "live". I've only ever arrived at the aftermath. 

It Can be fixed by making a costume action group with the undock set and pressing it.

B. If you put a decoupler on a Clamp-O-Tron - No way to fix it.

I have now given it its own bug report for you to approve. 

 

 

The question I was asking about was if the "patient zero" docking port mentioned here:

On 7/14/2023 at 9:02 AM, BechMeister said:

https://1drv.ms/f/s!AhGsvJ5Xnc4dqH0gl90QYSnxLLz4?e=X9VwhQ

I could not figure out how to upload the files to KSP forum - So I put them in a One Drive folder. 

Hope you get all you need, for I leave for vecation today.

happy bug hunting.

It is a regular clamp-o-tron and not a inline or shielded, I was wondering if the "action group fix" had been tested on it and if it starts working again? - because that would indicate that the issue came to be from being docked with an Inline/shielded clamp-o-tron.

I guess I could try myself. That savegame just lies pretty far back and call me lazy 

I'll get around to do the decoupler one asap. So they have each their thread.

1 hour ago, Anth12 said:

They might have accidentally fixed it, fixing some of the others.

Doesn't it often go like that? 

Edited September 3, 2023 by BechMeister

[BechMeister]

I decided to test it myself.

I booted up the original save file from 14/07

- made an action group for both ports on the drone with undock on hotkey 1

- Pressed hotkey 1 while not docked to anything.

- then proceeded to dock with the broken port = no issues - craft docked.

So. I believe it has all something to do with a problem with the Inline/Shielded clamp-o-tron - The error occurs when ever you load a save with a Inline/Shielded Clamp-O-Tron docked to another Shielded/Inline Clamp-o-tron or regular Clamp-o-tron. OR! when you load a craft onto your "grid" (I dont know if grid translates - its more an eve online term I guess). - but when a rocket approaches a station and it comes close enough that it is loaded in.

If you dock with a clamp-o-tron shielded/inline - move it around and then undock from it before "logging off" and loading back in they work fine. - So the error happens somewhere in the save and load process.

At least that is my findings.

Edited September 3, 2023 by BechMeister

[gluckez]

I'll do some more testing specifically around this later as well and keep my saves and crafts. 
It might be worth looking into how docking ports are used on assemblies as well, 
because it's difficult to tell how they should be oriented, especially if you're new to them.
In the first case I put them correctly, because I used the normal clamp o tron's before.
But now I also have a space station around the mun that's basically useless because the large
docking port is on backwards xD 

[BechMeister]

1 hour ago, gluckez said:

But now I also have a space station around the mun that's basically useless because the large
docking port is on backwards xD 

Ugh i know that one - though for me it was medium ports.

I also learned the hard way that just because you can out a micro port to a small port in the VAB - does not mean you can in space xD

[gluckez]

well, small update after trying to launch the station again with the correct docking ports in the right orientation.
After launching the first part and stationing it in mun orbit, I launched the second part and targeted it. 
I didn't see the orbital line, but I figured it must've bugged out or something. 

I remembered that sometimes the game stored the orbit wrong, so I went into the file and put it back to "Orbiting".
now I did see the line again, and the line went straight down to the munar surface, and without engines (since I already ditched those)
that meant I would need to launch it over again. I wasted a few hours trying different quicksaves, and changing some stuff, but wasn't able
to fix it

I guess I'll have to build my station after a future patch, because this isn't working. I never even got to docking this time.

[Anth]

29 minutes ago, gluckez said:

well, small update after trying to launch the station again with the correct docking ports in the right orientation.
After launching the first part and stationing it in mun orbit, I launched the second part and targeted it. 
I didn't see the orbital line, but I figured it must've bugged out or something. 

I remembered that sometimes the game stored the orbit wrong, so I went into the file and put it back to "Orbiting".
now I did see the line again, and the line went straight down to the munar surface, and without engines (since I already ditched those)
that meant I would need to launch it over again. I wasted a few hours trying different quicksaves, and changing some stuff, but wasn't able
to fix it

I guess I'll have to build my station after a future patch, because this isn't working. I never even got to docking this time.

The trajectories being missing has been in the game before, but this feels new. Too many people are complaining about it.

11 hours ago, BechMeister said:

I decided to test it myself.

I booted up the original save file from 14/07

- made an action group for both ports on the drone with undock on hotkey 1

- Pressed hotkey 1 while not docked to anything.

- then proceeded to dock with the broken port = no issues - craft docked.

So. I believe it has all something to do with a problem with the Inline/Shielded clamp-o-tron - The error occurs when ever you load a save with a Inline/Shielded Clamp-O-Tron docked to another Shielded/Inline Clamp-o-tron or regular Clamp-o-tron. OR! when you load a craft onto your "grid" (I dont know if grid translates - its more an eve online term I guess). - but when a rocket approaches a station and it comes close enough that it is loaded in.

If you dock with a clamp-o-tron shielded/inline - move it around and then undock from it before "logging off" and loading back in they work fine. - So the error happens somewhere in the save and load process.

At least that is my findings.

Thanks for all this information

[BechMeister]

8 hours ago, gluckez said:

that meant I would need to launch it over again. I wasted a few hours trying different quicksaves, and changing some stuff, but wasn't able
to fix it

You need to quick save often, so you can revert back to a place were things were in order - thats what I do. 

Fx:

- got burned all the fuel on stage one and stage seperated F5

- got into orbit F5

- i made my burn to the mun F5  etc.

This way you will not lose to much process when ever the game bugs out. 

8 hours ago, Anth12 said:

The trajectories being missing has been in the game before, but this feels new. Too many people are complaining about it.

I am running into them more often now too - but its usually with an active craft. And when ever it launches without trejectory lines it blow up once it reaches space.

 

8 hours ago, Anth12 said:

Thanks for all this information

You welcome - I tried to be as precise as possible

 

[Anth]

@BechMeister I am confused about what this bug report is related to now Is it docking ports not docking like the other bug report? Or is it now about inline docking ports and shielded docking ports?

If its now about inline docking ports and shielded docking ports, it might be better to create a completely new bug report and move this one to the archive.
 

[BechMeister]

I am under the impression that its the same bug. 

As i see it the original post was a finding that there was a bug.

Then through out the report the bug was narrowed down to be an issue with inline and shielded parts?

I can make a new report if you want it more precise and try make a simple craft that I can replacate it with.

[Anth]

@BechMeister
The title for this bug report is: Clamp-o-Tron docking port stopped working.
Does the following bug report satisfy the first investigation that was worked on here?

Then the inline and shielded docking ports was the second issue?

[BechMeister]

It satisfy the B option mentioned here:  

On 9/3/2023 at 10:15 AM, BechMeister said:

A. A craft "falls off" a Clamp-O-Tron Inline or a Clamp-O-Tron Shielded - Theory: The port is locked in a docked stage even if it has "undocked" - some times the craft that fell off the inline port will still react to the SAS of the craft said port is on. Other times it will register as its own separate craft. - why this is I have no idea.

keep in mind that the craft mostly fall off in the background when you are timewarping because you control another craft that is rendezvous-ing with the station. - So I have never seen it happen "live". I've only ever arrived at the aftermath. 

It Can be fixed by making a costume action group with the undock set and pressing it.

B. If you put a decoupler on a Clamp-O-Tron - No way to fix it.

But not A.

This is what I am certain about with A:

So far I can consistently break the Inline port by doing the steps mentioned here:

1.  dock a craft with a clamp-o-tron to a clamp-o-tron shielded/inline
2. Quick Save and then Quick Load
3. Right click on the Clamp-O-Tron Shielded. If it does not show the option to Undock the bug is in effect.
4. Right click on the regular clamp-o-tron and undock

Now the clamp-o-tron shielded should be broken. 

However - It can be fixed by following these steps:

1. Make an costume action group for the clamp-o-tron shielded with undock on hotkey 1
2. Press Hotkey 1
3. Now the Clamp-O-Tron Shielded is no longer broken

I have also discovered that the part connected with a bugged Clamp-O-Tron Shielded/Inline will drift away from the craft under time warp, and occasionally move independently from the rest of the craft when doing Pitch/Jaw/Roll maneuvers. 

You can replicate that with these steps:

1. Dock a craft with a clamp-o-tron to a clamp-o-tron shielded/inline
2. Quick Save and then Quick Load
3. Right click on the Clamp-O-Tron Shielded. If it does not show the option to Undock the bug is in effect.
4. If you activate SAS and Pitch/Jaw/Roll You may see the part connected with the Clamp-O-Tron Shielded/Inline start doing maneuvers on its own while "tethered" to the craft it is docked to. (clipping into the other craft)
5. If you Time Warp, The part of the craft with the Clamp-O-Tron Shielded/Inline Will drift off the main craft but still respond to SAS of the part with the regular Clamp-O-Tron on

But why and how the regular clamp-o-tron on drone - as shown in the video - broke i can only speculate. It was fixable with the same method used to fix the shielded one

This is my speculations:

I have a theory though, that I have yet to test.

1. you have a Clamp-O-Tron docked to a Clamp-O-Tron shielded with the the bug active.
2. Then time warp so the two crafts drift a part.
3.  then Quick save and Quick Load
4. The game may (this is not something i have tested yet) register the two parts as separate crafts again. But with the docking bug on both the Clamp-o-Tron Shielded and Clamp-o-Tron will be broken. (still fixable with the costume action fix)

The reason I suspect this is that I experienced a few times that when i was rendezvousing with the station with a new module and once I could see the station. drones were floating by themselves even If i had not left them undocked. Before finding the station and drone in this state This would happen:

- I approach the station and loaded it onto the grid while in time warp until I am close ~10km off ( giving the drone time to drift off)
- Then I some times I would Quick Saved and Quick Loaded to fix the Target Velocity which also frequently bugged in v.0.1.3. and found the drone and station undocked from each other and learned the drones docking port was broken.

I have not tested this yet.

P.S. - I believe this:

Is caused by the same bug.

These are all my findings on the matter as of now. 

I tried to be as thorough as possible - Sorry if it became a little long of a post 

Edited September 5, 2023 by BechMeister

[Anth]

55 minutes ago, BechMeister said:

It satisfy the B option mentioned here:  

Cool, so that is already reported.

16 hours ago, BechMeister said:

Then through out the report the bug was narrowed down to be an issue with inline and shielded parts?

I can make a new report if you want it more precise and try make a simple craft that I can replacate it with.

Yeah that would be great. 

One for the inline docking port breaking and the work around?

The other issue you could just edit the following?:

Thanks for doing all this investigating. Its appreciated.

[HammerTyme]

I just tried doing an Apollo 11 type of mission last night. Everything went smoothly for most of it until after I landed on the Mun and then launched back up to re dock with my last stage.  When I got my Lander back into orbit around the mun, I was about to dock with my last stage section again and it just bounces right off of it.. it wouldn’t dock.    I have no idea why.