I want to build a raft/boat for laythe but Idk how to

[Andrew1233]

Hi guys! I just get done building the laythe Ascent Vehicle that is capable to land on both land and water for Laythe then ascent back into orbit to dock with mothership, tests here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxzV8ewk91I and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fmvgKFyGF8&t=7s. But I want it to splash down on water so it won't slide down any hills of the islands. but kerbals swim extremely slow so I need a boat. I tried a lot of times but my boat just flies up and dive down then destroyed itself.  I need help! Btw It needs to be mk1 or mk2 size to be able for undock from mothership and reentry(it will stay on laythe forever bc i cant get it up to the mothership once its landed).

 

 

[Vanamonde]

Could you describe what the boat does in more detail? 

[Andrew1233]

33 minutes ago, Vanamonde said:

Could you describe what the boat does in more detail? 

wait u mean the boat i build that fails? or the one i want? for the one I built, it just kept pushing itself towards the ground and flies up for about 10 meters and smacks down. For the one I want, i want it to float and have a speed about 40-50 meters/s

[Vanamonde]

It does this while in the water or what? 

[Andrew1233]

17 minutes ago, Vanamonde said:

It does this while in the water or what? 

while I open the engines and on water

[king of nowhere]

17 hours ago, Andrew1233 said:

Hi guys! I just get done building the laythe Ascent Vehicle that is capable to land on both land and water for Laythe then ascent back into orbit to dock with mothership, tests here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxzV8ewk91I and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fmvgKFyGF8&t=7s. But I want it to splash down on water so it won't slide down any hills of the islands. but kerbals swim extremely slow so I need a boat. I tried a lot of times but my boat just flies up and dive down then destroyed itself.  I need help! Btw It needs to be mk1 or mk2 size to be able for undock from mothership and reentry(it will stay on laythe forever bc i cant get it up to the mothership once its landed).

 

 

if you want to move on the surface and go back on orbit, you are better off with a plane. getting a plane to take off from water is hard, though, it needs a lot of thrust. I made a few such models

this is the easiest case. it uses the panther engine, it's got the afterburner mode that gives it extra thrust at the cost of extra fuel consumption. I managed to squeeze some 500 km of range from it, plus two water landings and an ascent to orbit.

to orbit, that spacepane would eject the wings and the atmospheric engine (you can see them on the upper left corner) and ascend with a terrier engine. it could reach 20 km of altitude on that panther engine, but i was running out of jet fuel.

this instead is Not Albatross space seaplane, it works with propellers and nuclear power generation so it has unlimited range, it can take off from water as many times as it wants and it goes to orbit even on kerbin - though it is hard.

to make it take off from water, it needed several adaptations: powerful propellers for its relatively low mass, high wing surface to increase lift at low speed, and most of the mass concentrated on the tail, so that it could lift the nose more easily. flight performance is not as good, but it can fly straight and move around. you can also use it as a boat, it glides on water at 50 m/s.

building it is difficult to achieve, but if you want something that can land on water and move around, a plane is your best bet.

if you just want to go to the nearest land and plant a flag before taking off, then just any plane will do, you can glide on water until you reach land and take off from there.

[Andrew1233]

30 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

if you want to move on the surface and go back on orbit, you are better off with a plane. getting a plane to take off from water is hard, though, it needs a lot of thrust. I made a few such models

this is the easiest case. it uses the panther engine, it's got the afterburner mode that gives it extra thrust at the cost of extra fuel consumption. I managed to squeeze some 500 km of range from it, plus two water landings and an ascent to orbit.

to orbit, that spacepane would eject the wings and the atmospheric engine (you can see them on the upper left corner) and ascend with a terrier engine. it could reach 20 km of altitude on that panther engine, but i was running out of jet fuel.

this instead is Not Albatross space seaplane, it works with propellers and nuclear power generation so it has unlimited range, it can take off from water as many times as it wants and it goes to orbit even on kerbin - though it is hard.

to make it take off from water, it needed several adaptations: powerful propellers for its relatively low mass, high wing surface to increase lift at low speed, and most of the mass concentrated on the tail, so that it could lift the nose more easily. flight performance is not as good, but it can fly straight and move around. you can also use it as a boat, it glides on water at 50 m/s.

building it is difficult to achieve, but if you want something that can land on water and move around, a plane is your best bet.

if you just want to go to the nearest land and plant a flag before taking off, then just any plane will do, you can glide on water until you reach land and take off from there.

Yeah thats good, but It was still a bit too big for my mothership, plus I cant really land a plane on water. My LAV will do the job to decent and accent. 

[king of nowhere]

13 hours ago, Andrew1233 said:

Yeah thats good, but It was still a bit too big for my mothership, plus I cant really land a plane on water. My LAV will do the job to decent and accent. 

too big?

Not Albatross is 30 tons, so I can understand the concern; but Sole, the first plane, is only 7 tons total, including jet fuel - and a bunch of food, water, and radiation shielding introduced by a mod that you won't have in the stock game. you can't make a laythe lander for much less, not if you want it to move on the surface.

as for landing on water, it's actually fairly easy. much easier than landing on land. just keep your vertical speed low, and you're good. And in general, Sole is very easy to fly. if you are willing to drive it on the surface, you may also be willing to not use your mod for the descent and ascent phases.

[Andrew1233]

4 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

too big?

Not Albatross is 30 tons, so I can understand the concern; but Sole, the first plane, is only 7 tons total, including jet fuel - and a bunch of food, water, and radiation shielding introduced by a mod that you won't have in the stock game. you can't make a laythe lander for much less, not if you want it to move on the surface.

as for landing on water, it's actually fairly easy. much easier than landing on land. just keep your vertical speed low, and you're good. And in general, Sole is very easy to fly. if you are willing to drive it on the surface, you may also be willing to not use your mod for the descent and ascent phases.

Great! ill get some inspiration from it bc i dont need the 2ed stage. ill put the plane on laythe forever(I can turn it into a boat too)

[Spricigo]

On 11/20/2023 at 5:24 PM, Andrew1233 said:

i want it to float and have a speed about 40-50 meters/s

Well, that is not difficult in KSP. However if you designed something that can go that fast in water is not unlikely it can fly also (maybe it only can hurl itself a couple meters in the air and crash immediately after, which is bad enough). At this point your option became; 1.design it to fly well and land safely 2.design it to not fly (You may also just suffer, but I will ignore that "option").

Here an example of the later:

Spoiler

Sorry for the bad quality, for some reason KSP not taking SS for me.

 

 

For a craft of that size the 2 Juno engines are just enough to give TWR about 1, if anything It need just a tiny bit of lift to fly.  Indeed, flying straight is not a problem to this "bird", despite being a few degrees away from an uncontrolled spin. But that really don't matter because I made very hard to take off with it:

-The Center of lift is far behind the Center of Mass;

-There is a pair of Delta-Deluxe winglets at the rear below the centerline;

-The Line of Thrust is a hair above the Center of Mass;

-4 elevons below the surface further stabilize the craft;

-Reaction wheels are disabled and pitch authority is limited to pair of  elevons to avoid SAS overcorrection

-Center of Mass well between the Wheels/Keels.

All of that combined makes for a very stable craft, It can maintain 30m/s with 4x physical warp. (You'll notice it oscillates but it stay in the water) It turn very easily, just roll in the desired direction and it will pivot around that keel. On land it can technically go much faster but flat terrain is required to do safely. All in all, quite a fun craft to play with but unfortunately boats are limited in scope and usefulness.

 

Mind you, for a seaplane you need something very different, the craft must be able to raise from the waves. The CoL will be much closer CoM, same with keels(better yet to not even have it), wings with incidence and enough control surfaces for a decisive pitch up when you get up to takeoff speed. 

 

 

 

[Andrew1233]

20 minutes ago, Spricigo said:

Well, that is not difficult in KSP. However if you designed something that can go that fast in water is not unlikely it can fly also (maybe it only can hurl itself a couple meters in the air and crash immediately after, which is bad enough). At this point your option became; 1.design it to fly well and land safely 2.design it to not fly (You may also just suffer, but I will ignore that "option").

Here an example of the later:

  Reveal hidden contents

Sorry for the bad quality, for some reason KSP not taking SS for me.

 

 

For a craft of that size the 2 Juno engines are just enough to give TWR about 1, if anything It need just a tiny bit of lift to fly.  Indeed, flying straight is not a problem to this "bird", despite being a few degrees away from an uncontrolled spin. But that really don't matter because I made very hard to take off with it:

-The Center of lift is far behind the Center of Mass;

-There is a pair of Delta-Deluxe winglets at the rear below the centerline;

-The Line of Thrust is a hair above the Center of Mass;

-4 elevons below the surface further stabilize the craft;

-Reaction wheels are disabled and pitch authority is limited to pair of  elevons to avoid SAS overcorrection

-Center of Mass well between the Wheels/Keels.

All of that combined makes for a very stable craft, It can maintain 30m/s with 4x physical warp. (You'll notice it oscillates but it stay in the water) It turn very easily, just roll in the desired direction and it will pivot around that keel. On land it can technically go much faster but flat terrain is required to do safely. All in all, quite a fun craft to play with but unfortunately boats are limited in scope and usefulness.

 

Mind you, for a seaplane you need something very different, the craft must be able to raise from the waves. The CoL will be much closer CoM, same with keels(better yet to not even have it), wings with incidence and enough control surfaces for a decisive pitch up when you get up to takeoff speed. 

 

 

 

great! im trying to make one that can just wont crash and stable