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A look at the for science tech tree in KSP 2 vs the tree in KSP 1.

RayneCloud

By RayneCloud
in KSP2 Discussion

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Chilkoot

Chilkoot

Posted
Posted
On 12/2/2023 at 8:10 AM, Kerbart said:

the “don’t change anything” attitude

It's definitely a concern - there are clear "sacred cows" (e.g. Kerbolar system, named characters) and Science may have fallen into some of the same ruts as Science and Career modes from KSP 1, with melded mechanics.

From the dev stream, we know there are 3 paths to progression in the new mode:

  1. Instrument-based science collection (rehash):  much like KSP 1 science mode, obviously retooled
  2. Contract-based science collection (rehash-y):  presumably like Career contracts, but awarding science
  3. Discoverables (net new):  Rare/unique features scattered through the system that grant science point rewards

What appears to be missing is some sort of "milestone" system that opens up progression based on mandated successes not just grinds.  This was hinted at in much earlier dev interviews as an exploration mode, but that seems to have been watered-down and slip-streamed in as Discoverables.  Perhaps there was a fear of making progression too hard for some players.

My take on this is that IG is trying to give people options for progression without introducing too many game modes.  A lot of players want their sacred cows, and have been extremely vocal about it.  When you're dealing with an IP that has a cult-level following, you're often damned if you do, damned if you don't - the first Star Wars sequels are a close analog.

The same-y parts and tech tree don't imbue a lot of excitement, but there is still room for A New Hope.  It's premature to flop into defeatism before we get some real hands-on time.  It may be awesome!

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Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted

I don't much like the idea of mandated successes/gateways. Those would most likely railroad the player into doing the same things in the same order in every campaign and that would not be fun! At least I think so!

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Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted (edited)

Yeah, that's always been a big worry for me, having to follow a particular path to success. KSP started as a sandbox game and IMO it should follow the sandbox format: player-set goals and methods. KSP1 didn't manage to achieve that with career mode because contract disbursement was terrible. It did to some extent with science, but having science parts unlocked through the tech tree created a situation where a certain node path was far more valuable than others.

I'm hoping KSP2 can do better. If missions complete automatically then they shouldn't rely on previous missions for completion. Science collection parts should unlock in a manner that isn't dependent on picking the right tech tree path. Player goals should always take precedence. Any sort of "path" through the game should be considered guidance. Any guidance should be ignorable by setting and not nag the player.

Edited by regex
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mattihase

mattihase

Posted
Posted

I would imagine the fact of there being 3 different ways to get science (at least) probably will help allow people to do each campaign different, at least unless they look up a "meta" way to do things and stick to that.

It'd probably be quite fun to see if a Discoverables Only run is possible, or at least see just how much of the tree you can unlock without experiments or missions.

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mattihase

mattihase

Posted
Posted (edited)

Especially considering you don't necessarily need to bother unlocking science parts anymore with the other ways to get points.

EDIT: my posts aren't merging and I don't know why so sorry for the spam.

Edited by mattihase
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Vl3d

Vl3d

Posted
Posted
Tech Trees Comparison (ordered by Science Points cost)
KSP 1 KSP 2
  1. Start (0 Science Points)
  2. Basic Rocketry (5)
  3. Engineering 101 (5)
  4. Survivability (15)
  5. Stability (18)
  6. General Rocketry (20)
  7. Aviation (45)
  8. Basic Science (45)
  9. Flight Control (45)
  10. Advanced Rocketry (45)
  11. General Construction (45)
  12. Propulsion Systems (90)
  13. Space Exploration (90)
  14. Advanced Flight Control (90)
  15. Landing (90)
  16. Aerodynamics (90)
  17. Electrics (90)
  18. Heavy Rocketry (90)
  19. Fuel Systems (90)
  20. Advanced Construction (90)
  21. Miniaturization (90)
  22. Actuators (160)
  23. Command Modules (160)
  24. Heavier Rocketry (160)
  25. Precision Engineering (160)
  26. Advanced Exploration (160)
  27. Specialized Control (160)
  28. Advanced Landing (160)
  29. Supersonic Flight (160)
  30. Adv. Fuel Systems (160)
  31. Advanced Electrics (160)
  32. Specialized Construction (160)
  33. Precision Propulsion (160)
  34. Advanced Aerodynamics (160)
  35. Heavy Landing (300)
  36. Scanning Tech (300)
  37. Unmanned Tech (300)
  38. Nuclear Propulsion (300)
  39. Advanced Metal Works (300)
  40. Field Science (300)
  41. High Altitude Flight (300)
  42. Large Volume Containment (300)
  43. Composites (300)
  44. Electronics (300)
  45. High-Power Electrics (300)
  46. Heavy Aerodynamics (300)
  47. Ion Propulsion (550)
  48. Hypersonic Flight (550)
  49. Nanolathing (550)
  50. Advanced Unmanned Tech (550)
  51. Meta-Materials (550)
  52. Very Heavy Rocketry (550)
  53. Advanced Science Tech (550)
  54. Advanced Motors (550)
  55. Specialized Electrics (550)
  56. High-Performance Fuel Systems (550)
  57. Experimental Aerodynamics (550)
  58. Automation (550)
  59. Aerospace Tech (1000)
  60. Large Probes (1000)
  61. Experimental Science (1000)
  62. Experimental Motors (1000)
  63. Experimental Electrics (1000)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  1. Starting Rocketry (0 Science Points)
  2. Environmental Science (10)
  3. Electronics 1 / Probes (10)
  4. Construction 1 (10)
  5. Aerodynamics & Stability 1 (10)
  6. Light Launchers (10)
  7. Solid Fuel Boosters (15)
  8. Lights & Utilities (15)
  9. Specialized Decoupling (15)
  10. Survivability (15)
  11. Orbital Rocketry (25)
  12. Basic Trusses (25)
  13. Struts (35)
  14. Power Management (35)
  15. Small Payload (35)
  16. Micro-Construction (35)
  17. Reaction Control System (50)
  18. Aviation 1 (50)
  19. Long Range Probes / Command & Control 2 (50)
  20. Research Miniaturization (50)
  21. Basic Docking (50)
  22. Mun Landing (80)
  23. Monopropellant Drive (80)
  24. Tiny Engines (120)
  25. Power Launchers (180)
  26. Medium Orbital Rockets (230)
  27. Enhanced Electronics (230)
  28. Expanded Construction (230)
  29. Precision Aerodynamics (230)
  30. Fuel Lines (300)
  31. Durable Power Systems (300)
  32. Atmospheric Science (300)
  33. Precision Machining (300)
  34. Enhanced Coupling (300)
  35. Mk2 Jets (300)
  36. Medium Launchers (400)
  37. Precision Propulsion (400)
  38. Autonomous Sampling (500)
  39. Heavy Landing (500)
  40. Medium Trusses (500)
  41. Aviation Utility (500)
  42. Nuclear Propulsion / NERV (650)
  43. Medium Truss Adapters (650)
  44. Xenon Propulsion (850)
  45. Modular Launchers (1100)
  46. Heavy Rocketry (1400)
  47. Deep Space Probes (1400)
  48. Heavy Construction (1400)
  49. Large Aerodynamics (1400)
  50. Heavy Launchers (1800)
  51. Oversized Monopropellant Fuel (1800)
  52. Enlarged Power Systems (1800)
  53. Radiation Science (1800)
  54. Heavy Trusses (1800)
  55. Large Coupling (1800)
  56. Jumbo Jets (1800)
  57. Heavy Orbital Operations (2300)
  58. Long Range Generation (2300)
  59. Large Payloads (2300)
  60. Specialized Docking (2300)
  61. Airliners (2300)
  62. Deep Space Methalox (2900)
  63. Nuclear Power (2900)
  64. Orbital Science (2900)
  65. Heavy Nuclear Propulsion (4500)
  66. XL Methalox Tanks (5000)
  67. XL Electronics (5000)
  68. Oversized Landing (5000)
  69. XL Construction (5000)
  70. Spaceplanes (5000)
  71. XL Hydrogen Tanks (6000)
  72. Aquatic Sciences (6000)
  73. XL Trusses (6000)
  74. XL Coupling (6000)
  75. Space Shuttles (6000)
  76. Mk3 Fuel Systems (6000)
  77. Orbital Report (7000)
  78. Space Trucking' (7000)
  79. XL Truss Adapters (7000)
  80. XL Docking (7000)
  81. XL Payloads (8000)

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
stephensmat

stephensmat

Posted
Posted

Some of the later names have me speculating. Thinks like 'Orbital Report', so far to the end of the tree? It can't be talking about crew observations.

Mk3 Fuel Systems? I can't tell if there are drilling/refinery parts up for grabs here. That was always a major part of my outer system explorations in KSP1. Are they saving that for the 'Resource' mechanics found in the 'Exploration' expansion?

(Side note; I haven't played for a while. Are there still EVA mechanics? Adding trusses to fuel tanks was always a major part of ship construction for me. :P)

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