Kethane Pack 0.9.2 - New cinematic trailer! - 1.0 compatibility update

[af22man]

Just installed Kethane for the second time (used it ~2 days before 0.20 came out and when stock until now) set up my first satellite around the mun and because of the discussion about several detectors at once, i tried it myself putting up 8 Large detectors and activating them one by one (time gap) and i have a pretty well line even at 1000x

Now, before i spend hours again on designing kethane extraction/converting/storing crafts, i need to ask, is there still this special complicated guideline of building them you have to follow or has it been improved in 0.5?

If yes/no could someone please revise/quote the right way of building those again, as I dont want to go through the whole thread again looking for the right way ~.~

And Thanks alot for every help

if you plan on building storage tanks that connect to your miner in a train like fashion then just beware that currently the clamp-o-tron and the clamp-o-tron jr don't transfer fuel automatically, but they do transfer mono propellant. the clamp-o-tron sr and the shielded port transfer fuel just fine. not sure if its a kethane bug or a KSP bug. but all other systems work.

[malkuth]

Really enjoy this mod and I remember that when I first started using it that I had trouble with some things.. So decided to put together a Tutorial and Spotlight video with some of the things I have learned.. Hopefully it will help others out.

Think Im going to redo one part of the video and repost it later.. I don't like the mistake I made..

Edited June 11, 2013 by malkuth

[warmadmax]

Update on fuel conversion.

So, it appears that the blockage is in the docking node itself. I attempted to use the new Largest port,the Clamp-o-tron Sr, and the fuel started to transfer fine. no issues. so it appears that the old standard Clamp-o-tron docking port is the problem.

edit: the shielded docking ports work just fine as well.

edit2: the small clamp-o-tron also does not work. it appears that the only docking ports taht work are the docking ports that can instantly snap to the center of an end of a tank, such as the large clamp-o-tron or the shielded one.

edit3: ok I just downloaded the game fresh. installed kethane and tested. still the same issue with the clamp-o-tron and clamp-o-tron jr ports. everything else works great

it could be the rokomax adapters that are causing it not to flow, try it "naked" with just docking ports between the convertor and fuel tank, reason i'm guessing the senior's work is there isn't an adapter to sit between it and the converter.

for what it's worth, treat the convertor as a "rocket engine", it just so happens to be one that consumes a negative amount of fuel, oxidiser, xenon, mono.. in exchange for kethane and electric.

so if you need to add fuel lines, run them from rocket fuel tank to convertor, not convertor to tank (as you'd think normally and incorrectly stated earlier in the thread)

[Pontiac]

Sorry Pontiac, but your wrong. Your basing that on code, not what actually happens ingame. Bottom line is having more than one scanner on A SINGLE SHIP will get a map done faster in REAL TIME if time warp is used than a ship with only one scanner. You can look at the code all day long....Ive done s couple hours of testing just this INGAME.....not looking at code.

And please read what I posed before....I said absolutely nothing about getting it to scan more than a pixle area at once.....I never once said anything about increasing scan area at all. What I'm talking about is SCAN RESOLUTION...as in how solid of a line is made on the map per pass of the satellite.

On x100 time warp a ship with 12 scanners will make a more solid line than a ship with only one....2+ hours of testing lets me KNOW that's how it works, despite what the code says...

Forgetting about this code in its entirety, pending a hardware failure of some sort, a computer will do only what it is told to do, so what happens in game is based on code, and how it interacts with each other, and what input it presented to it from the user, calculated, or external sources. Everything it does can be traced back and get a reason as to why it did what it did. To me, what you said sounded like the code is just making things up as it went along, but I know you didn't imply such a thing. The software will act only on certain inputs and conditions, and the conditions during your testing yielded the results you've come up with, which differed from mine, and my experiment was due to missing information. The testing I did didn't produce the same results you got when I ran my 8 scanner probe at 100x. What you're seeing at your end is happening for a particular reason due to the code, not because of some magic that is going on in the background. (Well, honestly, how computers work at all is still magic to me...)

Majiir brought up something that I wasn't aware of which is going to cause me to cede defeat, and why it looked like my 8 scanner setup didn't work. What happened in my case was I started all the scanners at the same time, so, the events probably were firing at the same time, and I PROBABLY was hitting better than 1fps at 100x, so I was being blocked by the timer duration. Since each scanner operates on its own timer, yeah, I can see how you'd get the better resolution at faster speeds.

The key isn't how often FixedUpdate vs Update is called it is based on the cycle time of the modules.

I don't have the code or game in front of me so I am going to invent some numbers Say you have one scanner with a scan time of 1.5s, it hits an update and sees it hasn't added anything in over 1.5s, it puts a dot... repeat over the planets surface you will have missing dots due to gaps in scan time...

If you have three scanners each with a scan time of 1.5s you can stagger them so they are .5s apart and detect 3 dots for every one of the other scenerio... (one scanner triggers on time 0, the next on .5s, the next on 1s, then it cycles back to scanner #1).

Yep, I agree. With your comment about cycle times, I checked the code to see when specifically it hits and got slammed with grade 10 math. Staggering is the answer, but the issue that threw me for a loop was, as I mentioned, 1.2 second ping at 2x speed isn't going to equate to 0.6 seconds in real time. So if you hit 100x, the delay between the scans isn't going to be 0.012 seconds, but much MUCH closer to 1 second due to the Log function.

[HoY]

Update on fuel conversion.

So, it appears that the blockage is in the docking node itself. I attempted to use the new Largest port,the Clamp-o-tron Sr, and the fuel started to transfer fine. no issues. so it appears that the old standard Clamp-o-tron docking port is the problem.

edit: the shielded docking ports work just fine as well.

edit2: the small clamp-o-tron also does not work. it appears that the only docking ports taht work are the docking ports that can instantly snap to the center of an end of a tank, such as the large clamp-o-tron or the shielded one.

edit3: ok I just downloaded the game fresh. installed kethane and tested. still the same issue with the clamp-o-tron and clamp-o-tron jr ports. everything else works great

All docking ports can "snap" to the stack node on a tank. Just move the camera around in the VAB to view the tank from the side and hover the docking port into the green node on the end of it. It will snap to the tank as soon as the two green nodes meet. Also, your problem may not be with the port, but with the adapter plate between the tank and port. Adapters tend to sometimes only allow fuel to crossfeed in one direction or the other depending on fuel lines. A work around if you want to use them would be to run a fuel line Around the adapter from the local fuel tank TO the local docking port.

[mrrpamplemousse]

just download the mod...

WTF, Kerbal juice extractor, you bast*rd!

I will call green peace!

[KhaosCorp]

The blender is AWESOME!!!!

You guys have gone soft......you gotta break a few eggs to make an omelette!

KhaosCorp policy: only hero's fly missions! Now there is something useful to do with the cowards!

[af22man]

it could be the rokomax adapters that are causing it not to flow, try it "naked" with just docking ports between the convertor and fuel tank, reason i'm guessing the senior's work is there isn't an adapter to sit between it and the converter.

for what it's worth, treat the convertor as a "rocket engine", it just so happens to be one that consumes a negative amount of fuel, oxidiser, xenon, mono.. in exchange for kethane and electric.

so if you need to add fuel lines, run them from rocket fuel tank to convertor, not convertor to tank (as you'd think normally and incorrectly stated earlier in the thread)

I have done this on the other end. thats where i tested all of the ports. and the results are still the same.

[af22man]

All docking ports can "snap" to the stack node on a tank. Just move the camera around in the VAB to view the tank from the side and hover the docking port into the green node on the end of it. It will snap to the tank as soon as the two green nodes meet. Also, your problem may not be with the port, but with the adapter plate between the tank and port. Adapters tend to sometimes only allow fuel to crossfeed in one direction or the other depending on fuel lines. A work around if you want to use them would be to run a fuel line Around the adapter from the local fuel tank TO the local docking port.

actually the 2 clamp o trons dont snap to all pieces. the large tanks you pretty much have to turn up your symmetry button so that you can get them to all be on top of one another, then take symmetry down to one and place the clamp, this makes sure your in the center as much as possible. hell i cant even get the clamp o trons to snap on the small RCS tank.

[warmadmax]

the debug console isn't wanting to work for me on this version

[Eleven]

I've been running one of the big ones in the center, and 4 of the small ones radially attached. Turn them on one at a time to stagger the scan timers, then throw it to 1000 warp, turn off the sound, and catch up on youtube subscriptions. By the time I get back, I have a very nice map.

This is pretty much exactly what I do, except I catch up on 'other' videos

[AchronTimeless]

actually the 2 clamp o trons dont snap to all pieces. the large tanks you pretty much have to turn up your symmetry button so that you can get them to all be on top of one another, then take symmetry down to one and place the clamp, this makes sure your in the center as much as possible. hell i cant even get the clamp o trons to snap on the small RCS tank.

Ummm, no. I've been doing it since the clampotrons existed. I just did it a moment ago to make sure nothing changed. Hate to say it, but you just seem to be doing something wrong.

[mrrpamplemousse]

Must creat a big passager plane to send them to my kertane raffinery!

[Seyvern]

sigh. I keep hoping that there will be kethane update with a less annoying swath width scanner, but it never happens.

[KhaosCorp]

sigh. I keep hoping that there will be kethane update with a less annoying swath width scanner, but it never happens.

Its realistic that it does not...everyone who says this I know is thinking of how ISA scans...but think about the difference in what those 2 systems are doing...

ISA is topographical mapping system, it maps the surface of a planet only.

Kethane scanner is mapping a resource that's underground, even if its just a little ways down, it takes more power and different systems to make a scan like that.

[Seyvern]

Its realistic that it does not...everyone who says this I know is thinking of how ISA scans...but think about the difference in what those 2 systems are doing...

ISA is topographical mapping system, it maps the surface of a planet only.

Kethane scanner is mapping a resource that's underground, even if its just a little ways down, it takes more power and different systems to make a scan like that.

I really don't care what your opinion of made up physics should be. From a gameplay perspective, the current scan 1 pixel at a time sucks and ruins most of the enjoyment of the mod, and the purpose of my post is to covey that sentiment to the mod developer, not to get in a debate with you.

[KhaosCorp]

I really don't care what your opinion of made up physics should be. From a gameplay perspective, the current scan 1 pixel at a time sucks and ruins most of the enjoyment of the mod, and the purpose of my post is to covey that sentiment to the mod developer, not to get in a debate with you.

No need for hostility bud, was just trying to put some perspective on things. Why not do what everyone else does....scan on high time warp and do something else for 40min or so (on x100 scan at 80% or better scan res you get a useable map in 20-30 min depending on the planet)

[af22man]

Ummm, no. I've been doing it since the clampotrons existed. I just did it a moment ago to make sure nothing changed. Hate to say it, but you just seem to be doing something wrong.

Ok. I hate to break it to you but the way that the clamps attach don't really matter. The FACT OF THE MATTER is that it's not passing fuel with a fresh install on those two parts when in the previous revisions it did no matter what. Stop arguing semantics of attachment and focus on the real problem.

[HoY]

The part your arguing about is a known bug that's been around for the entire life of the mod. Arguing about that won't get you anywhere, but helping you learn how to put your creations together differently is something we can help with however.

Did you try the fuel lines I mentioned?

[strongest_2hu]

I really don't care what your opinion of made up physics should be. From a gameplay perspective, the current scan 1 pixel at a time sucks and ruins most of the enjoyment of the mod, and the purpose of my post is to covey that sentiment to the mod developer, not to get in a debate with you.

I'm trying to use the debug part on my scanning satellites so I don't have to waste 10-40 minutes of my life watching dots get drawn on a rectangle. I was hoping it would have an export to map function but sadly it does not, nor does it have mouse-over coordinates, making it difficult to relate the position of a deposit to that of other spacecraft. I think the best way to get around this is probably to drop a small lander with the debug part right on top of a deposit as a beacon to guide in your miners and converters. It's not quite as nice as having a filled-in scanner map but it can fill the gap until we either get swath scanners or the current scanners stop losing data points at high time warps.

[KhaosCorp]

I'm trying to use the debug part on my scanning satellites so I don't have to waste 10-40 minutes of my life watching dots get drawn on a rectangle. I was hoping it would have an export to map function but sadly it does not, nor does it have mouse-over coordinates, making it difficult to relate the position of a deposit to that of other spacecraft. I think the best way to get around this is probably to drop a small lander with the debug part right on top of a deposit as a beacon to guide in your miners and converters. It's not quite as nice as having a filled-in scanner map but it can fill the gap until we either get swath scanners or the current scanners stop losing data points at high time warps.

read back a couple pages, build your satellite right and you will lose almost no resolution per pass in x100, even x1000 warp.

Be more proactive people...not only is there ways around all this, but its been posted before. Read some pages, do some ingame testing......complaining to a mods dev should be an absolute last resort to resolve something imo....

and honestly I think the debug tool is for testing and debug....don't think it was ever meant to replace mapping.

[HoY]

If your going to use the debug tool to just take away all the work involved, you may as well just install hyper edit and have it fill your kethane tanks for you, or even skip that step and just turn on infinite fuel.

Why would you install a mod that gives you something to do, in a game that still has no real goals, and then not want to do half the work the mod requires??

[Kosmic Debris]

Getting all kinds of weirdness since installing .5; if a craft with Kethane parts is in the VAB I get the following random errors:

- Parts click but won't attach.

- Sometimes unable to leave the VAB

- Re-entering the VAB, parts list isn't shown

- Interferes with Engineer - blanks the window

Also sometimes unable to control a probe with the scanners.

An exit and re-enter (no reboot) fixes these...until it comes up again.

Can I just delete the Kethane add-in from the GameData directory to completely remove it for troubleshooting?

[Majiir]

I really don't care what your opinion of made up physics should be. From a gameplay perspective, the current scan 1 pixel at a time sucks and ruins most of the enjoyment of the mod, and the purpose of my post is to covey that sentiment to the mod developer, not to get in a debate with you.

Firstly, if you want to convey a sentiment to me, try to avoid starting posts with "sigh" and getting all uppity at people in the thread.

The scan width is fine if you're building your craft with enough power generation and battery storage. It takes very little time to find a deposit, and most people only need to find one. Even with one scanner, a properly equipped craft can get a decent map (revealing every deposit) within a few minutes. Things like orbital parameters can be important, too.

Regarding fuel flow, I thought this was well-established by now but I'll be clear: Kethane does nothing with regard to fuel flow. Kethane parts merely generate resources by calling RequestResource with a negative quantity. Any other issues are KSP bugs and should be reported to Squad. If you want advice on how to set up a Kethane craft to work around those issues, you may post that here, although I think a separate thread would be best. Yes, I could implement a fuel routing fix, but so could a dedicated mod. I'm focusing on Kethane as a resource exploration and harvesting mod.

[strongest_2hu]

Why would you install a mod that gives you something to do, in a game that still has no real goals, and then not want to do half the work the mod requires??

Because scanning as-is is neither fun nor difficult, merely time-consuming. "Half the work" you mention has been described by KhaosCorp as "leaving the game running for 20-30 minutes while you go do other stuff." Loads of fun right there. Might as well ask why I use time-warp when I send off interplanetary voyages.