Kethane Pack 0.9.2 - New cinematic trailer! - 1.0 compatibility update

[SyberSmoke]

Ok. Ill tell you. I will be using your light sensor and the heavy sensor for detecting Ores instead of Kethane. Plus the texture will be modified to gray as opposed to green for people to easily find the right scanner for the job. Do you think that Im violating the license?

Technically, as stated, the sensor model, texture, and animations are not his to license. You need to contact the original creator to get his permission.

[KhaosCorp]

Technically, as stated, the sensor model, texture, and animations are not his to license. You need to contact the original creator to get his permission.

Its not your place to speak for Kethane or any of its developers.

As per the current Kethane license you can NOT reuse the models or textures included with Kethane mod, regardless of who made them. And technically everything in the download is covered by the current licence(unless stated otherwise), regardless of who made them....they were made for Kethane....

Edited August 25, 2013 by KhaosCorp

[SyberSmoke]

Its not your place to speak for Kethane or any of its developers.

As per the current Kethane license you can NOT reuse the models or textures included with Kethane mod, regardless of who made them. And technically everything in the download is covered by the current licence(unless stated otherwise), regardless of who made them....they were made for Kethane....

It states clearly that in the current revision of the license, that "Models, textures and animations for all remaining parts were created by Keptin, who retains the copyrights." SO, the question is if the parts you wish to use are part of Kethane 0.1 or are part of this exclusion in the license. If they are not, your in violation of that persons copyright.

[zgrillo2004]

Bummer. TBH its really strict to not use the models. thats what you get with the draconian DMCA laws. its because the model that come with EP are horrendous and too big. Im ceasing production of the addon. if you guys were anticipating this. Blame the creator of Kethane and Majiir. not me

[Kimberly]

thats what you get with the draconian DMCA laws.

What does the DMCA have to do with it?

[KhaosCorp]

Bummer. TBH its really strict to not use the models. thats what you get with the draconian DMCA laws. its because the model that come with EP are horrendous and too big. Im ceasing production of the addon. if you guys were anticipating this. Blame the creator of Kethane and Majiir. not me

OR

You could make your own models if you want to release a mod....like all KSP mod makers.....

Also EPLP has 2 ore scanners, so its not like people are hurting for the parts, if YOU dont like the size it takes about 5 seconds to change the rescale on em.

[Raptor9]

This isn't my first Kethane miner, but it is my first combination lander/miner. My others were rover-based and placed on the surface by skycrane-style landers. This is the UV-5A 'Bear'. I called it the Bear because it weighed 86tons without any Kethane on board. And it looks all muscle. Mods used were Kethane 0.7.7 of course, rotation servos from Infernal Robotics, Radial Nuclear Engines, grappling hooks/winches from Kerbal Attachment System, hand railings from LackLusterLabs, Aviation Lights and RLA Stockalike RCS thrusters.

Final approach. MechJeb 2.0.9 plugin was used for the landing trajectory, but final descent had to be under manual control since the engine pods orientation was now vertical. Even the translation helper wasn't able to calculate the different engine orientation. But no matter, MechJeb getting the lander into the area was extremely helpful. The TAC Fuel Balancer plugin was also used to maintain CG.

[

Jeb standing on the observation platform. You can see the grappling hooks deployed. I only tested this on the Mun, but I designed it for Minmus. It's purpose is to carry Kethane up to an orbital refinery around Minmus, so the grappling hooks can help maintain ground contact on low-gravity moons. I took back off with 50% in the LFO tanks, and 7800/16000 units of Kethane in my reservoir, and by the time I got back to a 50km orbit around the Mun, I was down to 20% in my LFO tanks. I'm confident this will easily be able to make a round trip to the Minmus surface for a full Kethane payload. But if not, it has an integrated converter.

Gear up with engines in flight mode and swinging around to the east for climbout. The Bear is pretty stable in flight mode with the engines vertical. I was able to relocate along the Mun surface a good distance at half throttle with ability to maintain altitude, airspeed and control with ease.

Engine pods back in orbit mode and the throttle against the stops. The Bear isn't as responsive as the usual orbiters I use. But for what it's for, it's not bad.

Edited May 10, 2014 by Raptor9
Included credit to mods used

[Captain Sierra]

Why does it seem like so many non-modmakers feel such a sense of entitlement? Since I have gotten into it now I know what goes into it and I know the sense of accomplishment you get when it works.

It isn't your mod people! He made it, he can do with it, and allow you do to with it, what he wants as he sees fit.

[Captain Sierra]

This isn't my first Kethane miner, but it is my first combination lander/miner. My others were rover-based and placed on the surface by skycrane-style landers. This is the UV-5A 'Bear'. I called it the bear because it weighed 86tons without any Kethane on board. And it looks all muscle. Mods used were Kethane 0.7.7 of course, rotation servos from Infernal Robotics, Radial Nuclear Engines, grappling hooks/winches from Kerbal Attachment System, hand railings from LackLusterLabs, Aviation Lights and RLA Stockalike RCS thrusters.

<MEGASNIP>

That is wicked. Could you go post that over in the spacecraft exchange kethane mining designs thread? and possibly make it's own thread with craft file? It looks awesome. Thing of beauty.

[jrandom]

Bummer. TBH its really strict to not use the models. thats what you get with the draconian DMCA laws. its because the model that come with EP are horrendous and too big. Im ceasing production of the addon. if you guys were anticipating this. Blame the creator of Kethane and Majiir. not me

Right. Because you deserve everything for free.

[Raptor9]

That is wicked. Could you go post that over in the spacecraft exchange kethane mining designs thread? and possibly make it's own thread with craft file? It looks awesome. Thing of beauty.

I've never posted a craft file before, but I'll see what I can do. One thing I forgot to do is add fuel lines from the converter to the LFO tanks. So I need to get those installed and tested before posting. I'll send you a PM when I do if you'd like.

[drtedastro]

Bummer. TBH its really strict to not use the models. thats what you get with the draconian DMCA laws. its because the model that come with EP are horrendous and too big. Im ceasing production of the addon. if you guys were anticipating this. Blame the creator of Kethane and Majiir. not me

Ok. Cease and Desist. Be done with it. No more whining.

[KhaosCorp]

I've never posted a craft file before, but I'll see what I can do. One thing I forgot to do is add fuel lines from the converter to the LFO tanks. So I need to get those installed and tested before posting. I'll send you a PM when I do if you'd like.

A craft file is basically just a text file. Copy and Paste and your good to go bud.

Also the 'Bear' is awesome! My kinda lander right there =) I'd really like to know where you got those engines on the drills from...those look like something i need

[Majiir]

A few things on licensing:

• When I took over the Kethane project, the copyrights were transferred to me, not licensed. That said, if Dani-Sang were to release updated versions of the parts, he'd own those copyrightsâ€â€and frankly, it doesn't much matter, because Dani-Sang and I have very similar ideas about how assets should be used. (The current Kethane license was designed around the original MMI license.)
  
• Keptin retains the copyrights for his works, and he's allowed me to use them. That said, we've discussed licensing and he's in agreement with the current terms. You're certainly free to ask him for an exemption, but don't be surprised if he just directs you to me.
  [EDIT] To elaborate on this: I don't own the copyrights, but I've been authorized (by Keptin) to use and relicense those assets, which is exactly what I've done in the case of Kethane. The license allows you to play the mod, share media of the mod in action, and modify it for personal use, but that's all it grants for these assets. So, if you wanted to retexture Kethane parts for fun, go ahead; that's allowed under my license, which has been allowed by Keptin; but you cannot distribute those retextured parts, and you cannot distribute derivative works thereof (e.g. screenshots and videos). Either Keptin or I can allow use of those assets; in practice, the only rights you're granted come from the Kethane license.
  
• What parts of the Kethane license are contradictory? It's fairly clear that the license enumerates rights that are granted and then declares all other rights as reserved; the "you may not" list is provided for clarity. The license can be summarized in simple terms thusly: Kethane has an API that you may use, and you can share changes to source code since that's useful for submitting patches, but you can't use the mod in other ways and you can't reupload it somewhere.
  
• I've written at length (several times) on the reasoning behind the Kethane license. I realize it's unconventional, but Kethane also isn't an ordinary mod. Search through this thread and my Reddit history (be prepared for lots of k-pop) if you're interested.
  
• In the case of part assets, one of the reasons modification and use is disallowed is because they're high-quality parts meant to be used in a high-quality mod. Maintaining and building upon that standard of quality is important to everyone involved in the Kethane project. You may not agree with our philosophy, and you're free to produce your own high-quality parts and license them however you like.

Edited August 25, 2013 by Majiir

[Raptor9]

A craft file is basically just a text file. Copy and Paste and your good to go bud.

Also the 'Bear' is awesome! My kinda lander right there =) I'd really like to know where you got those engines on the drills from...those look like something i need

The engines are simply called "Radial Nuclear Engines" on Spaceport. They come in several sizes too. I use them on almost every lander and skycrane I have due to their compactness and efficiency.

Captain Sierra and KhaosCorp, I've uploaded the craft file to Spaceport at the following URL: http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/uv-5abear/

[zgrillo2004]

Ill need to make a model with animations then

Edited August 25, 2013 by zgrillo2004

[Climberfx]

Chill out guys. I see no problem with his message. Just ignore it and go on.

Let's give a round of palm to the mod developers.

Edited August 25, 2013 by Climberfx

[Majiir]

Why does it seem like so many non-modmakers feel such a sense of entitlement? Since I have gotten into it now I know what goes into it and I know the sense of accomplishment you get when it works.

It isn't your mod people! He made it, he can do with it, and allow you do to with it, what he wants as he sees fit.

You are just starting a flamewar

No, it's a good observation about the KSP community. It's in vogue to complain that unlicensed, out-of-date mods can't be forked and then insist on mandatory abandonment terms, a common license, or some equally silly measure. The truth is that unlicensed mods already violate the addon posting rules for the KSP network, so more rules won't really change anything, and it's ultimately the creator's fault if their mod ends up unlicensed and abandoned.

I am always willing to have a healthy discussion about the Kethane license, but be aware that I've put a lot of thought into this. Also be aware that I've been steadily making the license more open, but this is largely because it's become more specific; the most dramatic change came with version 0.6 when I opened up the Kethane module API for use. (Previously, you couldn't make something like a custom converter without my permission; now, if you want to make your own part that uses my module code, I can't stop you.)

Lastly, be aware that I'm a nice guy and I do grant exceptions, but there are certain cases that the license was specifically crafted to forbid. (Retexturing a part and releasing it as another pack is one of these cases.) Skykooler's Extraplanetary Launchpads started with an exemption to the Kethane license. Others have contacted me about building third-party mods, and I've told them I'll be happy to grant them exemptions since they're doing things that don't necessarily fit within the license. Fundamentally, I'm happy for people to use my work if it helps them to create their own work, as in Extraplanetary Launchpads. (That mod really is skykooler's brainchild, and the fact that it uses Kethane is a technical detail.) Reskinning a part, on the other hand, isn't creating anything new; it's lazily reusing someone else's work.

[zgrillo2004]

Majiir I can understand on the protection but they are small things like I was doing is being droven off by your license. you are driving away rookie modders

[Gryphorim]

Would it be in breach of the licence to have screenshots on threads of this forum that contain images of reskinned parts?

[Majiir]

Majiir I can understand on the protection but they are small things like I was doing is being droven off by your license. you are driving away rookie modders

Kethane's license is fantastic for rookie modders who are interested in actually creating something. Suppose you have a cool idea for a mod that allows you to collect and process resources, but you have no idea how to code plugins and only basic modeling skills. You whip up a few models quickly, add Kethane modules to the part configs, and suddenly your parts are powered with the full weight of the Kethane plugin. You might be the worst modeler out there, but you could still come up with a great idea, and it's incredibly easy to get up and running since you can make use of the Kethane code without ever having to worry about the programming yourself. People can get interested in your mod, and pretty soon you've got more talented artists lining up to help you. I'd argue that in this respect, Kethane is more friendly to other modders than any other mod out there. (What other mods actually provide a third-party API? Hell, my license doesn't even ask for attribution!)

Would it be in breach of the licence to have screenshots on threads of this forum that contain images of reskinned parts?

Technically yes, but if you retexture some parts for yourself and want to share a rocket design, go right ahead. Remember that the license is only enforced if I specifically ask for something to be removed. This sort of thing only gets activated if someone starts acting like a real jerk and posts a thread showing retextures along with step-by-step instructions on how to accomplish the same retexture.

[zgrillo2004]

I guess your right. I have been 3d modeling for at least 5 years

[SyberSmoke]

The term that I was talking about is a conflict between the Can Do and Can't Do sections. Can do lists what can be done, But then in the next part it states under Can't Do "Distribute modified versions of Kethane, in part or whole, including the packaged models, textures, plugins, part configurations and any other component, with exception of plugin source code." This statement, as I read it, says that while you can alter and build onto it, you can not distribute portions you have built on. Even if they are a fragment of the mod.

That is what could use some clarification or refinement. As some portions of the mod would be useful, but could not be used according to these terms.

I am not trying to troll, not at all and I am not being entitled either. The problem is copyright law, currently in the USA the copyright term is 70 years...or is it now 90...not sure at this moment. But for the next 70 years at least this mod will be the sole copyright and property of Majiir. That it self would not be an issue until you consider the fact that well...crap happens. So it is just good to keep it in mind and take precautions.

[viperwolf]

Can we get rid of the spacedumper plugin with 7.7 update?

[Olympic1]

A craft file is basically just a text file. Copy and Paste and your good to go bud.

Also the 'Bear' is awesome! My kinda lander right there =) I'd really like to know where you got those engines on the drills from...those look like something i need

I think there from the Radial Nuclear Engines mod.