Kethane Pack 0.9.2 - New cinematic trailer! - 1.0 compatibility update

[KhaosCorp]

@Khaos

See? That is a much more respectable argument. Why couldn't you say that the first time? Instead you had to give me crap about how Kerbal isn't about Physics (Seriously?!? It's almost purely about physics!)

Yes, KSP is about physics....not REAL LIFE PHYSICS though....kinda a big difference there bud...

About the converters....

I dont think its actually a bug (though i could be wrong about that)......

The small converter is more effective because dealing with the smaller amounts it can run with less waste...but, your not gonna refuel an armada with a small converter....

The large converter can produce much larger amounts much faster, but running material at such bulk rates leads to more waste.

And I can tell you from personal experience that this IS how certain extraction/refining processes work....I see it every day making medical BHO for cancer and epilepsy paitents.

[Dire_Squid]

Before I upload this Mod (which does seem to look pretty fun, btw, from what I've seen on Let's Plays), and I'm sure it's been asked multiple times (didn't look because... well you look through over 460 pages, lol)... but does Kethane work with Career Mode (access to the parts, mostly... I'm sure it's not part of the science point branches... unless it is?)?

[LameLefty]

Before I upload this Mod (which does seem to look pretty fun, btw, from what I've seen on Let's Plays), and I'm sure it's been asked multiple times (didn't look because... well you look through over 460 pages, lol)... but does Kethane work with Career Mode (access to the parts, mostly... I'm sure it's not part of the science point branches... unless it is?)?

Yes, Kethane works in Career mode and all of the parts have been assigned to nodes on the tech tree. No, there are no Science!â„¢ points to be gained from using it (unlike SCANsat, for instance, and a few other scientific part add-on mods).

[Dire_Squid]

Yes, Kethane works in Career mode and all of the parts have been assigned to nodes on the tech tree. No, there are no Science!â„¢ points to be gained from using it (unlike SCANsat, for instance, and a few other scientific part add-on mods).

NICE!

So, would I have to start a new Career Mode to access those particular parts on tech tree nodes I've already unlocked, or are they "plug-and-play" enough that they're automatically added to the nodes I've already unlocked?

Also, I figured the Kethane scanners wouldn't add science points. Thanks for letting me know.

[Moon Goddess]

Yes, KSP is about physics....not REAL LIFE PHYSICS though....kinda a big difference there bud...

No, but it should always be about tightly logical internally consistent physics.

[LameLefty]

NICE!

So, would I have to start a new Career Mode to access those particular parts on tech tree nodes I've already unlocked, or are they "plug-and-play" enough that they're automatically added to the nodes I've already unlocked?

If you add any mod to an existing Career mode save, any new parts show up in the VAB as "grayed out" and unavailable until you go into the R&D Center and unlock them. You will see little numbers over nodes you've already unlocked indicating the number of newly-available parts available in each. Click on those nodes, click on each new part in the list and you'll get a little pop-up asking if you want to research it. Click yes and it will become available.

Lather, rinse, repeat ...

[BudgetHedgehog]

Or download ResearchThemAll. Can't link, I'm on mobile, but its a plugin that can research all new and unresearched parts if you add a mod. Saves clicking them all.

[Camaron]

Unfortunately, Khaos I still feel like you aren't paying attention here:

"The large converter can produce much larger amounts much faster, but running material at such bulk rates leads to more waste."

That would be a fantastic point if the ingame Kethane converters didn't currently do the exact opposite! The small generator loses a horrid amount of monopropellant v.s. the bigger one. The bigger one is almost triply efficient. So, based on your own description of real world mechanics from personal experience, that's completely backward, which has been my argument all along, You're literally in agreement with us if that's your stance.

As Aedile specified, "The big produces 1.28 units of monoprop from 3 kethane, while the small one produces only 0.23 from 1.5." In other words, the C190 gets 1.28 mono per 3 Kethane VS the smaller C090's 0.46 for the same 3 Kethane.

[Dire_Squid]

If you add any mod to an existing Career mode save, any new parts show up in the VAB as "grayed out" and unavailable until you go into the R&D Center and unlock them. You will see little numbers over nodes you've already unlocked indicating the number of newly-available parts available in each. Click on those nodes, click on each new part in the list and you'll get a little pop-up asking if you want to research it. Click yes and it will become available.

Lather, rinse, repeat ...

Waaaaait... so: If there's a part in a node I've already unlocked, and it's grayed... does this mean I have to spend ANOTHER 90/160/more science to unlock them?

If so: UGH!

(If I'm wrong, kindly explain what does happen, please?)

[Superfluous J]

Duh. The bigger one has more room for all that magic to create mass.

Of course I'm joking. More seriously, while it's okay for physics to take a back seat to fun or balance, that should be a last resort. You should start with it realistic and try to figure out how to balance it while retaining realism. Breaking realism should be done begrudgingly, not because this is "just a game." That said, I personally have no problem with different resources weighing different amounts if it makes the game more interesting. Kind of like ion engines. Realism wasn't doing it so they instead made it fun.

[Moon Goddess]

Duh. The bigger one has more room for all that magic to create mass.

Of course I'm joking. More seriously, while it's okay for physics to take a back seat to fun or balance, that should be a last resort. You should start with it realistic and try to figure out how to balance it while retaining realism. Breaking realism should be done begrudgingly, not because this is "just a game." That said, I personally have no problem with different resources weighing different amounts if it makes the game more interesting. Kind of like ion engines. Realism wasn't doing it so they instead made it fun.

I cannot agree with this any stronger.

[ExplorerKlatt]

Waaaaait... so: If there's a part in a node I've already unlocked, and it's grayed... does this mean I have to spend ANOTHER 90/160/more science to unlock them?

If so: UGH!

(If I'm wrong, kindly explain what does happen, please?)

You do not have to spend the science again.

The NEW parts (i.e. the kethane parts) will not be useable in the VAB until you go into the R&D center and go back through the nodes you have already unlocked click on each new part and click unlock.

Edited May 15, 2014 by ExplorerKlatt

[BigD145]

Of course I'm joking. More seriously, while it's okay for physics to take a back seat to fun or balance, that should be a last resort. You should start with it realistic and try to figure out how to balance it while retaining realism. Breaking realism should be done begrudgingly, not because this is "just a game." That said, I personally have no problem with different resources weighing different amounts if it makes the game more interesting. Kind of like ion engines. Realism wasn't doing it so they instead made it fun.

It took Squad many months to get to that point. Months of using the parts and getting to know it.

[LameLefty]

You do not have to spend the science again.

The NEW parts (i.e. the kethane parts) will not be useable in the VAB until you go into the R&D center and go back through the nodes you have already unlocked click on each new part and click unlock.

Yeah, that's what I said.

[Dire_Squid]

Yeah, that's what I said.

I'm sorry, LameLefty. You mentioned clicking on them, and that they were grayed, but I didn't see you mentioning anything about not needing more science to unlock them again.

I was confused about it.

REGARDLESS, thank you, LameLefty and ExplorerKlatt, for answering my queries. I appreciate it from you both.

[Camaron]

Squad's numbers are fine. It's the Kethane mod's converters we're targeting.

More seriously, while it's okay for physics to take a back seat to fun or balance, that should be a last resort. You should start with it realistic and try to figure out how to balance it while retaining realism. Breaking realism should be done begrudgingly, not because this is "just a game." That said, I personally have no problem with different resources weighing different amounts if it makes the game more interesting. Kind of like ion engines. Realism wasn't doing it so they instead made it fun.

I completely agree with that. I don't want to hurt the game, but we don't have to here. Realism can be easily maintained along with balance and fairness. There's a problem, with a clear solution that has been proposed.

[LameLefty]

Squad's numbers are fine. It's the Kethane mod's converters we're targeting.

I completely agree with that. I don't want to hurt the game, but we don't have to here. Realism can be easily maintained along with balance and fairness. There's a problem, with a clear solution that has been proposed.

Yeah, that's all well and good but as I said earlier, Majiir and the other folks working on Kethane set it up this way for their own definitions of "balance." You can argue about it all you like (this topic comes up about once a month, I'd guess, sometimes more often). But I have yet seen anyone change Majiir's mind about it. So my personal advice to anyone unhappy about it is to tweak their config files to make themselves happy; just don't expect a lot of changes to Kethane any time soon as a result.

[Dire_Squid]

Welp, uploaded the Kethane mod, and, so far, no big issues.

I can't wait to deploy my kethane-converting jet, to stress-test this "horse" (aka this mod), for myself. lol

[eempc]

How do I turn off the beeping on the detector?

The detector's beep overrides the game's audio settings, which I've set to silent.

[BudgetHedgehog]

Right click on scanner, "disable audio tone" or something.

[eempc]

Right click on scanner, "disable audio tone" or something.

Thanks.

I embedded the scanner into the fuselage for aerodynamics so it was hard to click it.

[Aedile]

Yeah, that's all well and good but as I said earlier, Majiir and the other folks working on Kethane set it up this way for their own definitions of "balance." You can argue about it all you like (this topic comes up about once a month, I'd guess, sometimes more often). But I have yet seen anyone change Majiir's mind about it. So my personal advice to anyone unhappy about it is to tweak their config files to make themselves happy; just don't expect a lot of changes to Kethane any time soon as a result.

I pretty much doubt the monoprop issue was their idea of balance, judging how they have set the rest of the conversions.

[Camaron]

If there's anyone else out there who likes my conversion rates and the reasoning behind them, and perhaps would like to use them, Here's a little guide.

(Current target rates - a little different from the original proposal, but proportionally the same)

6.4 Kethane/sec in, 2.96 Monoprop per sec out.

5.0 Kethane/sec in, 2.5 Xenon out.

4.5 Kethane/sec in, 1.53 Liquid Fuel

5.5 Kethane/sec in, 1.87 Oxidizer

And for the C090:

1.6 Kethane/sec in, 0.74 Monoprop per sec out.

1.0 Kethane/sec in, 0.5 Xenon out.

0.9 Kethane/sec in, 0.306 Liquid Fuel

1.1 Kethane/sec in, 0.374 Oxidizer

You will need to open up the Kethane>Parts folder and open up the folders for the two converters. The configs are in the document named "part"

If you were to try to actually correct your own copy of the part files with these configurations, you will need to use the Kethane amount coupled with the decimal form of the byproduct percentages from earlier. Like so:

// --- Converter parameters ---

//C090

MODULE

{

name = KethaneConverter

InputRates

{

Kethane = 0.9

ElectricCharge = 4.5

}

OutputRatios

{

LiquidFuel = 0.85

}

}

MODULE

{

name = KethaneConverter

InputRates

{

Kethane = 1.1

ElectricCharge = 5.5

}

OutputRatios

{

Oxidizer = 0.85

}

}

MODULE

{

name = KethaneConverter

InputRates

{

Kethane = 1.2

ElectricCharge = 3

}

OutputRatios

{

MonoPropellant = 0.925

}

}

MODULE

{

name = KethaneConverter

InputRates

{

Kethane = 1

ElectricCharge = 8

}

OutputRatios

{

XenonGas = 0.025

}

}

}

//C190

MODULE

{

name = KethaneConverter

HeatProduction = 675

InputRates

{

Kethane = 4.5

ElectricCharge = 9

}

OutputRatios

{

LiquidFuel = 0.85

}

}

MODULE

{

name = KethaneConverter

HeatProduction = 825

InputRates

{

Kethane = 5.5

ElectricCharge = 11

}

OutputRatios

{

Oxidizer = 0.85

}

}

MODULE

{

name = KethaneConverter

HeatProduction = 800

InputRates

{

Kethane = 4

ElectricCharge = 6

}

OutputRatios

{

MonoPropellant = 0.925

}

}

MODULE

{

name = KethaneConverter

HeatProduction = 1200

InputRates

{

Kethane = 4

ElectricCharge = 16

}

OutputRatios

{

XenonGas = 0.025

}

}

}

[ExplorerKlatt]

If there's anyone else out there who likes my conversion rates and the reasoning behind them, and perhaps would like to use them, Here's a little guide.

(Current target rates - a little different from the original proposal, but proportionally the same)

6.4 Kethane/sec in, 2.96 Monoprop per sec out.

5.0 Kethane/sec in, 2.5 Xenon out.

4.5 Kethane/sec in, 1.53 Liquid Fuel

5.5 Kethane/sec in, 1.87 Oxidizer

And for the C090:

1.6 Kethane/sec in, 0.74 Monoprop per sec out.

1.0 Kethane/sec in, 0.5 Xenon out.

0.9 Kethane/sec in, 0.306 Liquid Fuel

1.1 Kethane/sec in, 0.374 Oxidizer

You will need to open up the Kethane>Parts folder and open up the folders for the two converters. The configs are in the document named "part"

If you were to try to actually correct your own copy of the part files with these configurations, you will need to use the Kethane amount coupled with the decimal form of the byproduct percentages from earlier. Like so:

// --- Converter parameters ---
//C090
MODULE
{
    name = KethaneConverter
    InputRates
    {
        Kethane = 0.9
        ElectricCharge = 4.5
    }
    OutputRatios
    {
        LiquidFuel = 0.85
    }
}

MODULE
{
    name = KethaneConverter
    InputRates
    {
        Kethane = 1.1
        ElectricCharge = 5.5
    }
    OutputRatios
    {
        Oxidizer = 0.85
    }
}

MODULE
{
    name = KethaneConverter
    InputRates
    {
        Kethane = 1.2
        ElectricCharge = 3
    }
    OutputRatios
    {
        MonoPropellant = 0.925
    }
}

MODULE
{
    name = KethaneConverter
    InputRates
    {
        Kethane = 1
        ElectricCharge = 8
    }
    OutputRatios
    {
        XenonGas = 0.025
    }
}
}

//C190

MODULE
{
    name = KethaneConverter
    HeatProduction = 675
    InputRates
    {
        Kethane = 4.5
        ElectricCharge = 9
    }
    OutputRatios
    {
        LiquidFuel = 0.85
    }
}

MODULE
{
    name = KethaneConverter
    HeatProduction = 825
    InputRates
    {
        Kethane = 5.5
        ElectricCharge = 11
    }
    OutputRatios
    {
        Oxidizer = 0.85
    }
}

MODULE
{
    name = KethaneConverter
    HeatProduction = 800
    InputRates
    {
        Kethane = 4
        ElectricCharge = 6
    }
    OutputRatios
    {
        MonoPropellant = 0.925
    }
}

MODULE
{
    name = KethaneConverter
    HeatProduction = 1200
    InputRates
    {
        Kethane = 4
        ElectricCharge = 16
    }
    OutputRatios
    {
        XenonGas = 0.025
    }
}
}

I made a MM Config for these rates. Just drop it in the Kethane folder in gamedata,

New converter rates

[Camaron]

Oh. we can just do things the easy way. Neat. Thanks, ExplorerKlatt.

But wait... Link says "Nothing Here"