Kethane Pack 0.9.2 - New cinematic trailer! - 1.0 compatibility update

[Superfluous J]

edit: should also note that, unlike ISA or SCANSat, with Kethane a 100% complete map is damn near pointless. On most bodys 65%ish is more than enough, and with most bodys mining ops can begin once ya get 12% or so done.....

On both Moho and Ike I mined the *FIRST* deposit I found. And on Moho that deposit (though not my exact landng spot) contained the very first hex I scanned.

[Majiir]

Of course it's possible to calculate a craft's trajectory relative to the surface, but that's not the problem. As I understand it, the problem stems from the fact that kethane scanning divides the surface of a body into hexagons, and working out exactly which hexagons said trajectory passes through is very much not an easy task.

Actually, an algorithm for solving the generalised version of that problem would probably make a good doctoral thesis for a maths student, if anyone's looking for any ideas.

Basically this. To make performance reasonable while maintaining accuracy is non-trivial. If anyone has a serious proposal for how to solve this, by all means, share it. So far, everything I've seen is along the lines of "just record the trajectory and then turn that into hexes, easy, duh."

[klikkolee]

what is the most recent version of kethane that is compatible with ksp .23? I can't find this information in the version history

Edited May 3, 2014 by klikkolee

[BudgetHedgehog]

If your having to leave scanners overnight then the issue here is not kethanes scan mechanics, but rather your lack of understanding in how those mechanics works.

It takes about 15min real-time to make a 100% complete scan of Kerbin with the proper satellite..and that is with default values on the scanner, no config haxs....

For all you people bellyaching about the scanners I would suggest reading the Kethane wiki and actually learning how they operate. Personaly I hope Majiir keeps the current scan mechanics, as its a great way to create a bit of gameplay balance. Kethane lets you make massive amounts of fuel very easy anywhere in the solar system....the time that must be invested to scan is really the only balance that has.......after all, if you just want easy-mode alt+f12 will give ya all the fuel ya want....

edit: should also note that, unlike ISA or SCANSat, with Kethane a 100% complete map is damn near pointless. On most bodys 65%ish is more than enough, and with most bodys mining ops can begin once ya get 12% or so done.....

I completely understand the mechanics of it, I just don't have the time or patience to sit and not be able to do anything for 15 minutes. I find it much easier personally to leave it scanning while I do other things instead - like sleep.

Reading the wiki? What, this one that shows no more information about the scanning parts than the in-game right click menu does? Yeah, I've done that. What's your point?

I know a 100% complete map is nearly pointless but that still doesn't stop the fact that I'm forced to not do anything while it's scanning. Entirely by the way, Majir, I know it sounds like I'm saying you made the concious decision to do things this way, but I do recognise the limitations of it. When I say you have no plans to change it despite all the requests, I know that's because implementing it is very non-trivial and no-one's found a workable solution yet so you have no plans to change it. So yes, I recognise the limitations of it but that doesn't mean I still don't find it annoying though. It's more the situation that I'm annoyed at, rather than the non-implementation of scanning-while-not-active.

[Majiir]

Entirely by the way, Majir, I know it sounds like I'm saying you made the concious decision to do things this way, but I do recognise the limitations of it. When I say you have no plans to change it despite all the requests, I know that's because implementing it is very non-trivial and no-one's found a workable solution yet so you have no plans to change it. So yes, I recognise the limitations of it but that doesn't mean I still don't find it annoying though. It's more the situation that I'm annoyed at, rather than the non-implementation of scanning-while-not-active.

No worries. It frustrates me too. I've considered a few ways to shake things up and I'm not fully happy with any yet. Happy to take suggestions on how to compromise a little.

[DauntingFlyer]

Well, I give up on figuring out the flying grid bug.

Installing fresh KSPs on other machines (XP, 7, Vista), new games, careers, sandboxes, using Kethane mod only, adding other mods, trying different scanning situations during gameplay...

Exception error Exception error Exception error Exception error Exception error Exception error Exception error Exception error Exception error Exception error Exception error Exception error Exception error...... I'll dedicate my time on making walkers rather than exploring.

[Majiir]

Well, I give up on figuring out the flying grid bug.

Installing fresh KSPs on other machines (XP, 7, Vista), new games, careers, sandboxes, using Kethane mod only, adding other mods, trying different scanning situations during gameplay...

Exception error Exception error Exception error Exception error Exception error Exception error Exception error Exception error Exception error Exception error Exception error Exception error Exception error...... I'll dedicate my time on making walkers rather than exploring.

See this thread and submit a full debug log on the Kethane bug tracker. Happy to fix this, but I can't without logs. (Up-to-date logs from KSP 0.23.5 would be best.)

[ExplorerKlatt]

what is the most recent version of kethane that is compatible with ksp .23? I can't find this information in the version history

Kethane 0.8.4

[benc85]

Keep up the good work Majiir

[sp1989]

I love love this MOD totally changes the way I play the game. Probably you intention lol. Anyway Did you ever consider doing a Bussard collector type tool. Something that collects fuel from the space while you are traveling? I was just reading a discussion post about Bussard collectors and I immediately thought of you. Its an interesting concept. I mean it has to be balanced correctly because other wise whats the point of mining Kethane if you can just fly around to collect fuel. IDK how it would work but instead of kethane it would collect Kydrogen. Idk I just had a thought and I figured you would be the modder to talk to.

[DevL]

Hey guys, was wondering if someone could help me out. I am looking for a way to add ore to a specific hex or group of hexes. Primarily to test things and so I don't have to build two bases on the Mün. Not really keen on having to transport fuel a couple hundred km to the launch pad. I also posted this in the EPL thread.

This. Let me know if you come up with a way to do this as I'm interested in the exact same thing.

[Jean Deaux]

I've personally preferred using a lander to mine and transport to a station opposed to mining, driving, and then flying. Converting at a station vs a ground facility just seems to cut out the middle-man in my opinion.

[Psykikk]

I've personally preferred using a lander to mine and transport to a station opposed to mining, driving, and then flying. Converting at a station vs a ground facility just seems to cut out the middle-man in my opinion.

thats how I do it now. I played around with this mod since almost right after I downloaded KSP for the first time. I just like the idea of going somewhere to actually do something instead of just going there because I can... and the most efficient way to do it seems to realy be landing, mining, liftoff, delivery, converting.

although I am still thinking about a gigantic mining and refining facility on a moon / planet.

I have yet to try out those kethane - based mining mods. whats your guys take on them ? any good ?

[Galane]

...the most efficient way to do it seems to realy be landing, mining, liftoff, delivery, converting.

I tried doing that on Duna but the landers I built couldn't bring up enough Kethane to much more than refill their own tanks, and I'd send them down with not much more than enough fuel to land. They could get to minimum orbit then have to make some fuel to rendezvous.

Fortunately they were capable of getting to Ike and I'd also taken along two Kethane scanning satellites and one of them had enough fuel left to get out to Ike.

My Eve mission (still stalled in Kerbin orbit due to a lack of CPU grunt power) will use two rovers, one for drilling and one for converting Kethane (both will land without parachutes - tried chutes and they'd get unstable and crash) and a manned lander. Connect all with KAS to fuel up then loft high as possible with gas bags before firing up the engines.

By manned lander I mean one with a 2 man can, not one that barely gets a command chair and one kerbal back.

[madmat]

Just want to say how much I love this mod. It's re-invigorated my gameplay and adds so much to KSP. Thanks for all the great work guys.

[spiritplumber]

This is my configuration for mining asteroids (via KAS, by attaching stuff on them):

Use it in gamedata -> nasa -> potatoroid.

PART
{
name = PotatoRoid
module = Part
author = Squad

mesh = PotatoRoid.mu
rescaleFactor = 1

TechRequired = Unresearcheable
entryCost = 0
cost = 0
category = none
subcategory = 0

title = A potato like rock
manufacturer = The Solar system
description = Big ole, rock like thing.
attachRules = 1,1,1,1,1

// --- standard part parameters ---
mass = 150
dragModelType = default
maximum_drag = 0.2
minimum_drag = 0.2
angularDrag = 1
crashTolerance = 80
breakingForce = 200
breakingTorque = 200
maxTemp = 1e38
explosionPotential = 0.1

vesselType = SpaceObject

MODULE
{
	name = ModuleAsteroid	
}

RESOURCE
{
  name = AsteroidMaterial
  amount = 150000
  maxAmount = 150000
}

RESOURCE
{
 name = LiquidFuel
 amount = 0
 maxAmount = 2700
}
RESOURCE
{
 name = Oxidizer
 amount = 0
 maxAmount = 3300
}
RESOURCE
{
 name = MonoPropellant
 amount = 0
 maxAmount = 800
}
RESOURCE
{
 name = XenonGas
 amount = 0
 maxAmount = 2000
}
RESOURCE
{
  name = RocketParts
  amount = 0
  maxAmount = 15000
}
MODULE
{
    name = KethaneConverter
    HeatProduction = 600
    InputRates
    {
        AsteroidMaterial = 1
    }
    OutputRatios
    {
        Ore = 1024
    }
}
MODULE
{
    name = KethaneConverter
    HeatProduction = 600
    InputRates
    {
        AsteroidMaterial = 1
    }
    OutputRatios
    {
        Kethane = 1024
    }
}

MODULE
{
	name = ModuleScienceExperiment
	experimentID = AsteroidSample

	experimentActionName = Take Asteroid Sample
	resetActionName = Dump Sample

	useStaging = False
	useActionGroups = True
	hideUIwhenUnavailable = True 
	resettable = True
	resettableOnEVA = True

	xmitDataScalar = 0.1

	FxModules = 0
}



}

[adalast]

I was just playing with a Kethane based Xenon craft and it occurred to me that you could easily add in an analog for a Direct Methanol Fuel Cell for converting Kethane into Electricity as well. Could be very useful for such crafts.

[Galane]

This is my configuration for mining asteroids (via KAS, by attaching stuff on them):

Would that make it a KASteroid?

[Booots]

I have a peculiar problem and I'm wondering if there is a workaround or if it could be fixed in a future update. Using Kethane and EL, I scanned Laythe and found a kethane deposit and an ore deposit that, although not overlapping anywhere, were perfectly adjacent at one point. As there were no other combined deposits on land, I figured I would land precisely on the border of the hexes and extend one drill into one hex and another into the other. Mining the kethane works great, but I have to undock my ore miner for it to mine ore. It seems that the Kethane mod checks for which hex the center of the craft is in as opposed to which hex the drill itself is penetrating. Is this indeed the case? If so, how difficult would it be for the code to be modified to check the physical location of the drill?

For now, does anyone have any suggestions to save me from having to unlink my pipes any time I want to mine ore? Thanks!

[Superfluous J]

For now, does anyone have any suggestions to save me from having to unlink my pipes any time I want to mine ore? Thanks!

Interesting problem, and one I could have had but I didn't have the gumption to find that exact centerline between the deposits.

One idea is to utilize claws I think 2 would do it, one to use the pivot and one to claw the two parts together. Have the 2nd claw grabbing your Kethane base from above (using gravity to bring it down) and make it so when you unlink it, you can lift it with an SAS unit ("control from here" on it) on the pivot of the 1st claw.

Detach and lift to drill, lower and attach to transfer/build/etc.

[MildMicah]

Majiiiiiiiiir, can I ask, what are you doing right now in kethane? I looked for an update of some kind but I couldn't find any. Are you waiting on 24.0? or no? I was just curious what may be in the next version of kethane. I would really like to see a drill for probes. Also, I was wondering if you already have made some changes or if you're adding new parts?

Thanks

[akman]

So are you guys working on anything new for Kethane?Or will you remain in beta until you run out of numbers?

[Aedile]

Majiir, I noticed the 'standard kethane containers" seem to be able to fit much more than the modular fuel ones.

Could you consider modifying the config

@TANK_DEFINITION[Default] {
    TANK {
        name = Kethane
        fillable = false
        [B]utilization = 2.5[/B]
    }
}

[BudgetHedgehog]

Soooooo yeah.... Majir, DMagic has, while working on SCANsat, solved the whole 'scan in background' problem you've been having...

So apparently this isn't really difficult at all. Ok, SCANsat already has a method for background scanning built in, but still, it took me literally five minutes to come up with a workable solution. The trick is that SCANsat doesn't actually scan anything in the background, it just records what sensors have flown over what area of the planet. The elevation and biome scanning is all done when the map is drawn. The same thing is possible with Kethane, you just check which areas of the planet have been scanned and which cell those areas correspond to.

The active vessel, with the blue orbit, does not have a Kethane scanner and is orbiting at ~750km. The inactive vessel, in grey, has a small Kethane scanner with a SCANsat module attached to it and is orbiting at ~250km. It took about 15 sec at max time warp to go from the map shown in my last post to this map. The Kethane grid doesn't seem to accept my additions to its database until I reload, but the SCANsat map (note the "Rebuild Kethane" button) works fine.

I added a Kethane sensorType to SCANsat (using sensorType = 4, the old slope scanner number), set the fov = 1 and the best alt = 250000. The rebuild button checks which cells have been scanned and adds them to the Kethane database. I'm guessing you need an active Kethane sensor or part on the vessel for the grid to update without reloading.

So if the reason for not having background scanning really is technical and not philosophical then I don't see any reason why this can't be added to SCANsat. Working out how best to handle the part modules is another question, but that's not really a big deal.

Edit: The code for all of this is available on a branch of my Github page, the base is technogeeky's latest build.

[codepoet]

I just noticed that the file MMI_Kethane.dll is zero length in the download on the first page of this thread. Is it supposed to be like that? I am getting lots of exceptions logged, and my game crashed when I was trying to deploy the drill. Is my install of kethane borked, od is the dll meant to be empty?