[Kopernicus] RDK: Realistic Density Kerbolar. A rethinking of the Kerbolar system with science in mind! (This is the mod RTB actually plays)

[R-T-B]

Someone encouraged me to post my personal mod config, I've been playing with this for some time and just now I am posting it. 

Presenting:

RDK

A Realistic Density Kerbolar System config pack for KSP/Kopernicus

License: UnLicense

Source

Downloads (Just unzip the zip to your KSP directory once you have satisfied the dependencies)

This mod does the following things:

1.) Rescales the stock sun to represent a fully physically/graviationally/density correct spectral type G6V star, using OhioBob's wonderful KSPAtmoCalculator excel doc.

2.) Rescales all stock bodies to 5x their current radius.

3.) Furthermore, all planets (not moons) orbits are moved to 10x their orbit from the center G6V Star.  (Amazingly the math here works out to have perfect solar output for Kerbin, unlike stock).

4.) Moons are moved to 5x their original orbital distance.

5.) Kopernicus's density calculator facility is then used to generate realistic masses/densities/surface gravities, etc for all objects. (Yes, this results in all objects having a lower ASL gravity, Kerbin is about ~0.45x normal).

6.) To represent Kerbal development in a lower gee environment, engine/RCS thrust output is halved and if a reliablilty mod like Kerbalism is used, burn time+ignitions doubled. Kerbals can also not jump any higher than usual on Kerbin, as their jump strength has been multiplied by 0.45x to represent the new surface environment.

7.) If Principia is present, retrobop modification is applied to keep Jool stable (may not be needed but better safe than sorry).

8.) To ensure the worlds are not entirely flat at this rescale, landscape height is raised a bit (technically x1.25) and the PQS level is raised a 2 levels.

Required mods are Kopernicus & SigmaDimensions

You'll get a better experience if you add the following optional mods:

EVE (Volumterics work too), Scatterer, Parallax, Kronometer (Custom Calendar is explained in zip of release), uses 24h days.

If you want to play "hard mode" try adding Principia (it works and is how I play!)

When starting a game, always set Kerbal Gee Tolerance to 0.5x for best experience. Also, Only use Terrain Preset high in Settings or Parallax may spaz out, plus I didn't setup any other presets.

Screenshot time (these may contain some of the optional mods + nonstock parts, but nothing commercial, see bottom of post for links to more barebones screenshots):

Barebones Screenshots (No optional mods):

https://imgur.com/a/73GMwKC

All optional (sans commercial) mods screenshots:

https://imgur.com/a/den8jEy

Thank you for reading, I personally use this mod so feel free to report issues and I'll be happy to fix them!  As you can tell, I'm very much not past Minmus yet in actual gameplay so there could be some, lol!

-RTB

EDIT: Astrogator DeltaV calc screenshots added here (zoom):

Edited June 27 by R-T-B

[DeadJohn]

Thanks for sharing this.

Do you know the velocity in Kerbin low orbit, or estimated DV to get there? I'm curious how difficulty compares to stock and other planet packs.

Am I correct assuming Kerbin's atmosphere becomes less dense compared to stock? Thinner atmo and half gravity make me want to experiment with aircraft.

[R-T-B]

On 1/24/2024 at 6:57 AM, DeadJohn said:

Do you know the velocity in Kerbin low orbit, or estimated DV to get there? I'm curious how difficulty compares to stock and other planet packs.

I don't have an exact metric but I do feel it is probably close to if not a little harder than stock given the much larger radius, but lower gravity.  Of course getting to other bodies is harder given the distance.

If I knew how to calculate it I'd get some metrics, as it is I'll do some research crafts and get back to you.

For the atmopshere on Kerbin I have not tweaked it at all, it's something I want to do but I lack a good enough understanding to really mess with it beyond knowing that the planet could theoretically hold onto a nitrogen-oxygen atmopshere here at this distance.  My guess is in the real world it may be less dense though, yeah.  The truth is Kerbins atmosphere in stock is already somewhat short at where it "terminates", so that part is probably already ok.  What would need to be changed most for accuracy is the density gradient and maybe just overall density of it and like I said, I don't have the knowledge to really do that correctly.  PR's welcome though.

Edited January 26 by R-T-B

[DeadJohn]

9 hours ago, R-T-B said:

If I knew how to calculate it I'd get some metrics, as it is I'll do some research crafts and get back to you.

You already answered well enough with "a little harder than stock". That encourages me to try an SSTO-centric spaceplane career using your planets.

Note that the Astrogator mod can estimate the DV to reach orbit. I think it analyzes Kopernicus data so might work correctly with your planets. I'll try to set aside time to install your mod this weekend and reply with DV comparisons for stock vs you vs JNSQ vs KSRSS.

[DeadJohn]

@R-T-B  What velocity do you get in low Kerbin orbit?

Maybe I misinstalled because your mod feels much more difficult than stock and even 2.7x scale systems. I cheated into 100km orbit and my velocity was 5337 m/s. If you report a much lower number I'll try to reinstall.

Here's what Astrogator shows as total estimated deltaV to reach orbit, which is plausible given 5337 final velocity plus gravity losses during ascent:

• RDK: 6293
• Stock: 3414
• KSRSS: 4845
• JNSQ: 4851

The Tracking Station says my Kerbin has 3000 km radius. That's exactly 5x stock's 600 km so Sigma Dimensions is working (at least partially). On the other hand, Kerbal Engineer shows 9.81 surface gravity, which is higher than I expected from your comment "this results in all objects having a lower ASL gravity, Kerbin is about ~0.45x normal".

I started with an old version of Kopernicus, then upgraded to the latest on CKAN, both versions gave similar results.

[Kari]

2 hours ago, DeadJohn said:

@R-T-B  What velocity do you get in low Kerbin orbit?

Maybe I misinstalled because your mod feels much more difficult than stock and even 2.7x scale systems. I cheated into 100km orbit and my velocity was 5337 m/s. If you report a much lower number I'll try to reinstall.

Here's what Astrogator shows as total estimated deltaV to reach orbit, which is plausible given 5337 final velocity plus gravity losses during ascent:

• RDK: 6293
• Stock: 3414
• KSRSS: 4845
• JNSQ: 4851

The Tracking Station says my Kerbin has 3000 km radius. That's exactly 5x stock's 600 km so Sigma Dimensions is working (at least partially). On the other hand, Kerbal Engineer shows 9.81 surface gravity, which is higher than I expected from your comment "this results in all objects having a lower ASL gravity, Kerbin is about ~0.45x normal".

I started with an old version of Kopernicus, then upgraded to the latest on CKAN, both versions gave similar results.

I do believe something is wrong with your game, I made a clean install for this mod and it worked absolutely fine and KER did show the correct surface gravity for kerbin. I'm used to 2.7x and this was wayy to easy to get to orbit lmao. I do wonder what changes would give something close to 2.7x experience with this setup

Edited January 27 by Kari

[caipi]

On 1/24/2024 at 5:41 AM, R-T-B said:

This is the mod RTB actually plays

This is all the advertisement and endorsement any mod ever needed! I love that you put that in the title.

Thank you for sharing. I will give it a try the next time I decide to fire up KSP again. =)

[R-T-B]

22 hours ago, DeadJohn said:

@R-T-B  What velocity do you get in low Kerbin orbit?

Maybe I misinstalled because your mod feels much more difficult than stock and even 2.7x scale systems. I cheated into 100km orbit and my velocity was 5337 m/s. If you report a much lower number I'll try to reinstall.

Here's what Astrogator shows as total estimated deltaV to reach orbit, which is plausible given 5337 final velocity plus gravity losses during ascent:

• RDK: 6293
• Stock: 3414
• KSRSS: 4845
• JNSQ: 4851

The Tracking Station says my Kerbin has 3000 km radius. That's exactly 5x stock's 600 km so Sigma Dimensions is working (at least partially). On the other hand, Kerbal Engineer shows 9.81 surface gravity, which is higher than I expected from your comment "this results in all objects having a lower ASL gravity, Kerbin is about ~0.45x normal".

I started with an old version of Kopernicus, then upgraded to the latest on CKAN, both versions gave similar results.

Let me try a run real fast.  I use PlanetInfoPlus for reading ASL surface gravity and it never showed more than 0.45x gees gravity.  But maybe I packaged something wrong (separating this from my modstack was a bit of a feat).  Will check right now.

  

22 hours ago, DeadJohn said:

I started with an old version of Kopernicus

That could be part of the issue, this mod relies on some very recently added facilities to do density calcs on the bodies at game setup.  You'd need to start the game with a fairly modern Kopernicus in the first place.  I don't remember the release number off hand, but probably in the last month or so should be fine.

22 hours ago, DeadJohn said:

9.81 surface gravity

This actually sounds like the standard surface gravity accelartion rate of 1 gee in m/s.  I think you messed up with an old Kopernicus and will have to start fresh, yeah.  Sorry I wasn't clear on that, I'll amend the notes in a moment.

EDIT:  Yep, check this album out:

https://imgur.com/a/cRn8FQD

That's how a proper install should be, geeASL and deltaV wise.

Try deleting your Kopernicus folder completely and making sure you have a fresh install of the latest, maybe?

Edited January 28 by R-T-B

[R-T-B]

20 hours ago, Kari said:

I'm used to 2.7x and this was wayy to easy to get to orbit lmao. I do wonder what changes would give something close to 2.7x experience with this setup

Yeah, you caught me...  this is basically my scientific excuse for a cheat to actually make it to Duna...  lol.

A 10x or similar pack would certainly go hard the other way, but that's sorta been done before.

[Kari]

2 hours ago, R-T-B said:

Yeah, you caught me...  this is basically my scientific excuse for a cheat to actually make it to Duna...  lol.

A 10x or similar pack would certainly go hard the other way, but that's sorta been done before.

I tried messing with some of the settings and at this point you can absolutely build a realistic sized rocket in 10x and get good ΔV, but as soon as you put some payload the upper stages suffers a LOT,  so using smurff or LRTR would be a better experience if the player doesn't want to go to RO/RSS. But your setup is very interesting and refreshing, feels like stock but without looking like you're on a toy planet.

One issue is that the half thrust patch will not work on parts that have their thrust set by a B9PS module, maybe there's a way to universally change them as well but might be useful info to have on the post

[R-T-B]

37 minutes ago, Kari said:

One issue is that the half thrust patch will not work on parts that have their thrust set by a B9PS module, maybe there's a way to universally change them as well but might be useful info to have on the post

Yeah most of my ModuleManager patches border on the extremely basic...  it's a skill issue really, I don't do well at those patches at all.  If anyone knows how to make it work with B9PS I'd welcome a pointer or PR, because frankly I don't know how to do that.

 

If the half thrust patch fails, it's not critical just remember to set thrust limit on solid boosters mainly, because they can and will incinerate themselves in the atmo.

  

37 minutes ago, Kari said:

feels like stock but without looking like you're on a toy planet.

That was the objective.  Glad it hit the mark in that regard.

Edited January 28 by R-T-B

[R-T-B]

Not that anyone plays this but me, but I made high res wind and temp data for this modeled using ExoPlasSim, usable in Cashnip's high quality mod MCWS:

This is a highres config pack.  Kerbin and Eve are twice the normal climate resolution (this took nearly 4 nights on a Ryzen 32-thread 7950x to render), and Duna is also redone completely at the standard res.  Laythe is the same as stock because Laythe isn't really possible using realistic physics.

Download the config pack here, and extract to GameData:

http://glacialsoftware.net:8080/RDK_Wind.zip

Edited July 1 by R-T-B