Firespitter propeller plane and helicopter parts v7.1 (May 5th) for KSP 1.0

[jstnj]

[EXC 22:27:02.500] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
    Firespitter.engine.FSplanePropellerSpinner.OnUpdate ()
    Part.ModulesOnUpdate ()
    Part.Update ()

I'm getting the above exception when any prop is spooling up. Once the animation for the spool up stops and the prop is at full speed...the exception stops. This throws about 16 exceptions/second (per exception detector).

Running x64 KSP on Linux. Any ideas? I see in an old version it was due to a duplicate config file?

[Esme]

Apologies if I've missed the flippin' obvious somewhere, but I'm trying to find the version of Firespitter that's compatible with KSP v0.9; if some kind person could point me to a link to where I can download it from, 'twould be much appreciated! :-)

UPDATED: Managed to find it by myself almost immediately after I posted the above. Sigh... :-}

Edited May 20, 2015 by Esme

[iDisOrder]

Hey guys.

Not sure if this means anything but I'm getting an error when I start up KSP

The version checker is saying I have v7.1.2 installed when in fact I have v7.1.3

Looking at Firespitter.version in the GameData folder, it clearly states v7.1.3, but the URL

in Firespitter.version links to info claiming it's v7.1.2

Does this matter?

{
  "NAME": "Firespitter",
  "URL": [B]"[URL]https://raw.githubusercontent.com/snjo/Firespitter/master/For%20release/Firespitter/Firespitter.version[/URL]",
  "[/B]VERSION": {
    "MAJOR": 7,
    "MINOR": 1,
    "PATCH": 3
  },
  "KSP_VERSION": {
    "MAJOR": 1,
    "MINOR": 0,
    "PATCH": 2
  }
}

CKAN has Firespitter at v7.1.1 and the core at v7.1.3

I just had the core installed ^above^ which came from another mod.

Edited May 21, 2015 by iDisOrder

[Toreador]

Hmm, I've lost the ability to change the texture on some of the oblong parts. Particularly most of the nose pieces I would use for a biplane.

[Sarxis]

Hey I had a couple of general questions: Are the drop tanks supposed to work without fuel lines? I could only get the drop tanks and the intake/oxidizer tanks to work if I hooked them up with fuel lines.

Also, the FSPropeller engine (the modular one): what makes a difference on how much power it can output? Does changing the engine size or propeller lengths/number change thrust? Also, I can never seem to get anything but 600RPM to stick when I am configuring it.

Thanks if you get around to answering these!

[gc1ceo]

I'm enjoying this mod -- I had avoided it for a while since propeller parts didn't seem that interesting but all that disappeared when I made my biplane. I'm wondering if there are more recent example craft files somewhere to download?

[V8jester]

I'm enjoying this mod -- I had avoided it for a while since propeller parts didn't seem that interesting but all that disappeared when I made my biplane. I'm wondering if there are more recent example craft files somewhere to download?

KAX uses firespitter, I can't remember for sure if there are example crafts with it but I believe there are some.

If you are up for some inspiration, I have a few pics of an osprey I built in my thread.

Edited May 24, 2015 by V8jester

[Snjo]

Hey I had a couple of general questions: Are the drop tanks supposed to work without fuel lines? I could only get the drop tanks and the intake/oxidizer tanks to work if I hooked them up with fuel lines.

Also, the FSPropeller engine (the modular one): what makes a difference on how much power it can output? Does changing the engine size or propeller lengths/number change thrust? Also, I can never seem to get anything but 600RPM to stick when I am configuring it.

Thanks if you get around to answering these!

The drop tanks unfortunately need fuel lines. Getting them to be their own fuel lines, or routing fuel through the wings would have been ideal, but the Squad code I needed to understand was pretty damn confusing.

The size and number of blades will cause more lift, but also more drag and weight. Until you reach the max potential power output of the engine, you gain thrust, after that sweet spot, you are just wasting fuel.

I can't remember what the deal was with the RPM though, except it probably has a max RPM since lift doesn't work too well in real life when it spins too fast*.

*It's complicated. I'm not.

[RoverDude]

Hey Snjo!

Quick heads up - the initial balance pass on the engines (due to how ISP changed) was a very rough cut - you probably want to re-look at the curves. Also the control surface FS tweaks are temporarily off since that was causing Kraken goodness - I also moved all of the control surface bits to the new stock control surface module, which fixed all of the wings as that was just a syntax change.

The collider on the bomber wing extender is acting a bit odd, but beyond that we're in pretty good shape (I am happily barnstorming away with my biplane).

I'll move some bits around to the correct categories once I have a chance as well

[Snjo]

Hey Snjo!

Quick heads up - the initial balance pass on the engines (due to how ISP changed) was a very rough cut - you probably want to re-look at the curves. Also the control surface FS tweaks are temporarily off since that was causing Kraken goodness - I also moved all of the control surface bits to the new stock control surface module, which fixed all of the wings as that was just a syntax change.

The collider on the bomber wing extender is acting a bit odd, but beyond that we're in pretty good shape (I am happily barnstorming away with my biplane).

I'll move some bits around to the correct categories once I have a chance as well

Sounds good! For all I know the winglet range adjustments are less important with improved aero. I think I used it a lot because of the input bugs in the roll, where any small amount of roll input would cause full deflection.

You have probably noticed that a lot of values are wonky, not just thrust, but prices and max temps etc. Do whatever you need to them.

[RoverDude]

Good deal - I'll do a run through on prices, temps, etc. and put them on par with stock.

[kcs123]

Have you plans to improve helicopter rotors ?

I was messing around with KAX engines that were based on Firespitter. Haven't time to check Firespitter parts for 1.0 yet.

As FAR user, I found that those rotors didn't worked well, despite how precisely I balance thrust with CoM.

I have described quick and dirty solution in KAX thread. I just added reaction wheels to that rotor engine to make them more controlable.

Thing that is still missing is proper hover option. That one does not work well, better said, in KAX it does not work at all.

To make it work better two thing is needed.

First, calculate needed thrust, so it is close as possible to mass * celestial body gravity. If it too much to work out properly, leave it to user to set proper engine thrust value, it is not too much important.

To have compleatly match gravity forces, some fine adjustment is needed. It could be done trough RCS. So, while I was doing that quick dirty fix with reaction wheels, I was come up to idea to add RCS capabilities to same rotor engine. It is possible to add that module trough config file, but unfortunately while it does not produce CTD or anything like that, it does not work, it lacks of functionality.

Probably something else is needed from model/part side to make it work too. I just wrote general idea here, with hope that if you have time and willpower to improve it further.

Also, have you tried to add this line to all engine properties ?

resourceFlowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW

It will alow engines to drain fuel from all tanks equaly, could that help with dropable fuel tanks too ?

Cheers, and keep good work on this mod.

[Snjo]

Have you plans to improve helicopter rotors ?

I was messing around with KAX engines that were based on Firespitter. Haven't time to check Firespitter parts for 1.0 yet.

As FAR user, I found that those rotors didn't worked well, despite how precisely I balance thrust with CoM.

I have described quick and dirty solution in KAX thread. I just added reaction wheels to that rotor engine to make them more controlable.

Thing that is still missing is proper hover option. That one does not work well, better said, in KAX it does not work at all.

To make it work better two thing is needed.

First, calculate needed thrust, so it is close as possible to mass * celestial body gravity. If it too much to work out properly, leave it to user to set proper engine thrust value, it is not too much important.

To have compleatly match gravity forces, some fine adjustment is needed. It could be done trough RCS. So, while I was doing that quick dirty fix with reaction wheels, I was come up to idea to add RCS capabilities to same rotor engine. It is possible to add that module trough config file, but unfortunately while it does not produce CTD or anything like that, it does not work, it lacks of functionality.

Probably something else is needed from model/part side to make it work too. I just wrote general idea here, with hope that if you have time and willpower to improve it further.

Also, have you tried to add this line to all engine properties ?

It will alow engines to drain fuel from all tanks equaly, could that help with dropable fuel tanks too ?

Cheers, and keep good work on this mod.

I can't say I agree about the reaction wheel approach. It is possible to do proper roll and pitch control in Unity, and the newer FS rotors do it by altering the pitch of the blades as they rotate around. There is wing code running on each blade. (It worked so well that by default I turned off adding real world speed into the math because it caused too much asymmetry of lift in anything but a dual rotor setup.)

The older rotors do it by altering the thrustTransform angle instead of moving the thrust average position, but the effect is pretty much the same.

Reaction wheels are a cheat, and I have never been a fan. You might notice reaction wheels are off or incredibly weak on the FS cockpits, because it doesn't let you simulate the actual effect of the rotors, or control surfaces and wing setup. Which for me is the whole fun of it.

Both the old and the new rotors have functioning hover (or did last time I checked, which is a while ago). Instead of checking the mass etc, which would not give the right result when at an angle or while not vertically stable, it checks the split second changes to vertical speed and compensates as needed. It does however require the engine be powerful enough to get you out of a jam. If it's not powerful enough to lift you at 50% throttle, it's probably not powerful enough to reliably hover your vessel.

I haven't played with the fuel flow in a long time, so it's possible there are better solutions now for sure.

[Pinguino132]

Hello, i got a problem with Firespitter 7.3 when its loading it gets stuck at "lancaster engine gear"

[Squiggsy]

Hey I just popped by to ask a question about the FSbuoyancy module, I am thinking about making some pontoons that are animated so they are mounted on pistons that extend them down into the water (for amphibious craft) but I was just wondering if this was actually possible, since it says buoyancyVerticalOffset is determined by the Global axis, so would that mean its ride height on the water would remain the same deployed or undeployed?

love the mod by the way, the plugin introduces some of the most useful modules in the game!

[kcs123]

I can't say I agree about the reaction wheel approach. It is possible to do proper roll and pitch control in Unity, and the newer FS rotors do it by altering the pitch of the blades as they rotate around. There is wing code running on each blade. (It worked so well that by default I turned off adding real world speed into the math because it caused too much asymmetry of lift in anything but a dual rotor setup.)

The older rotors do it by altering the thrustTransform angle instead of moving the thrust average position, but the effect is pretty much the same.

Reaction wheels are a cheat, and I have never been a fan. You might notice reaction wheels are off or incredibly weak on the FS cockpits, because it doesn't let you simulate the actual effect of the rotors, or control surfaces and wing setup. Which for me is the whole fun of it.

Both the old and the new rotors have functioning hover (or did last time I checked, which is a while ago). Instead of checking the mass etc, which would not give the right result when at an angle or while not vertically stable, it checks the split second changes to vertical speed and compensates as needed. It does however require the engine be powerful enough to get you out of a jam. If it's not powerful enough to lift you at 50% throttle, it's probably not powerful enough to reliably hover your vessel.

I haven't played with the fuel flow in a long time, so it's possible there are better solutions now for sure.

I said it is quick and dirty solution, not a proper one

I checked Firespitter again, heli rotors works just fine, hovering function too. But there is issues with collision meshes. nuFAR use those to create voxalizations. Some of parts, like landing gears are not voxelized properly. Heli rotor for example, have voxalization only for one pair of blades, when you increase number of rotor blades, those are not recognized properly by FAR.

Also heli rotor, when you crashland heli on port or starboard side and engine is still runing, rotor blades go trough ground without collision at all.

Probably KAX use only some part of FS mod and wing code for blades are not properly included trough unity functions. With overhelming changes to aero system, for both stock aero and FAR, lately it is probably not easy to maintain changes for all parts trough proper code. If you need to use cheats (reaction wheels) to make something to work at all considering gameengine limits and time needed to make it work properly, then why not ? Regular user will probably never know difference if pitching works trough wing code or trough other hacks as long it is works for gameplay purpose.

I understand your concerns, I'm also all for realism as much as possible, but if you are short in free time to maintain this mod at all, you will need from time to time to make some shortcuts.

Anyway, thanks for maintain this mod. Despite some flaws due to lot of changes need to be made to catch up with latest release, I will probably have this mod in second instance of KSP and have some fun with it from time to time. I will try to make notes for all other parts that may need additional checks to be compatible with latest FAR. Right now I can't help you in any other way than trough testing and reporting.

Don't mind some criticism from time to time, it is usually because I like something and I want to point out possible ways to improve it

[yorshee]

Are the customizable propellers broken or am I missing something? I can't seem to get them to work, but the other propellers work fine.

[The Destroyer]

How do you get rid of the Input visualizer with the custom props? It's annoying and dosen't hide with F2

[V8jester]

How do you get rid of the Input visualizer with the custom props? It's annoying and dosen't hide with F2

Open the cfg file for said part. At the bottom of the file you will find a module labeled "Input visualizer" Either delete the module, or like I did add "//" in front of all "{}"

// input visualizer for video demos. Disable for Release
MODULE
{
	//name = FSinputVisualizer
}

[Geschosskopf]

I just completed a circumnavigation of Kerbin in a boat made mostly of Firespitter parts (except for some Near Future solar panels and stock struts). This is why I love this mod.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/122380-Ore-Travelling-Circus-02-Episode-10-Elcano-Challenge-Part-9-Circumnavigation-Complete?p=1987201&viewfull=1#post1987201

[RoverDude]

Are the customizable propellers broken or am I missing something? I can't seem to get them to work, but the other propellers work fine.

http://i.imgur.com/k2OrlVR.png

http://i.imgur.com/z6z8UUZ.png

http://i.imgur.com/Ck28lyO.jpg

I'll take a peek, thought these were working

[CoffeeSE]

I noticed that all of the propellers turn clockwise when viewed from the front. Is there a way to get it to turn counter-clockwise?

Also, what does "rotationSpeed" and "thrustRPM" when coupled with the turboprop's config do? They do not seem to change the rotation of the propellers.

[volcanicshrimp]

a fighter cockpit with a fighter wing attached causes Kerbin to disappear when it is launched. This persists after reverting the flight and even affects the main space centre view.

The fighter cockpit by itself does not cause this bug which leads me to think the yellow tipped wing is to blame.

I don't think firespitter likes me

(this is the third bug firespitter has come up with for me after the water transport system blowing up my ship and a mystery 100 units of liquid fuel appearing in battery fuselages)

Edited June 8, 2015 by volcanicshrimp
removal of unnecessary data

[DiamondHawk427]

This mod's Firespitter.dll file has a virus called WS.Reputation.1 What do i do?

[Mynar Moonshadow]

A simple google search reveals:

http://community.norton.com/en/forums/clarification-wsreputation1-detection

Clarification on WS.Reputation.1 detection

Posted: 17-May-2010 | 1:45PM • 0 Replies • Permalink

There have been several recent posts about the WS.Reputation.1 detection. In order to clear things up, we thought it was important to explain this detection and provide more information about how you should deal with it. First off, we have published a write-up on our Security Response site. Please see the information here - http://www.symantec.com/en/uk/security_response/writeup.jsp?docid=2010-051308-1854-99. The text reads:

WS.Reputation.1 is a detection for files that have a low reputation score based on analyzing data from Symantec’s community of users and therefore are likely to be security risks. Detections of this type are based on Symantec’s reputation-based security technology. Because this detection is based on a reputation score, it does not represent a specific class of threat like adware or spyware, but instead applies to all threat categories.

The reputation-based system uses "the wisdom of crowds" (Symantec’s tens of millions of end users) connected to cloud-based intelligence to compute a reputation score for an application, and in the process identify malicious software in an entirely new way beyond traditional signatures and behavior-based detection techniques.

Now, like any security technology, there is a small chance that we have made a mistake on a file. We are constantly tuning the reputation system to avoid these problems, but they do occur on occasion. If you believe a file has been mistakenly detected by WS.Reputation.1, you can submit a dispute at https://submit.symantec.com/dispute/. This page is monitored 24 hours a day so that we can immediately begin to research and correct any issue.

~M~