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Ethanol fuel cells engines and jets


farmerben

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Imagine for some reason you were completely fossil fuel free but still allowed to use ethanol fuel.  

Other than the fact they are platinum and you can't easily get them on todays market ,what if fuel cells combined with sterling engines to recover part of the waste heat are better than ethanol only engines.  For that matter there are not many pure ethanol engines in cars or planes or anything.  A major downside is the hydrophilic aspect of pure ethanol which degrades its ignition potential.  But, I think a bit of water pollution is less of a problem in fuel cells.  

Helium filled sterling engines are more efficient than steam engines as a secondary heat engine.  It would be easier to implement on boats and trains before cars and planes.  Methanol fuel cells also work extremely well, and methanol is a small percentage waste product of ethanol production.  Do you think an ethanol only based fuel cycle is feasible?  What types of engines actually work well?

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On 9/24/2024 at 5:29 PM, farmerben said:

Imagine for some reason you were completely fossil fuel free but still allowed to use ethanol fuel.  

No need. Use wood.

https://ru-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog/wiki/Газогенераторный_автомобиль?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=ru&_x_tr_pto=wapp

Spoiler

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On 9/24/2024 at 10:29 AM, farmerben said:

Imagine for some reason you were completely fossil fuel free but still allowed to use ethanol fuel.  

Other than the fact they are platinum and you can't easily get them on todays market ,what if fuel cells combined with sterling engines to recover part of the waste heat are better than ethanol only engines.  For that matter there are not many pure ethanol engines in cars or planes or anything.  A major downside is the hydrophilic aspect of pure ethanol which degrades its ignition potential.  But, I think a bit of water pollution is less of a problem in fuel cells.  

Helium filled sterling engines are more efficient than steam engines as a secondary heat engine.  It would be easier to implement on boats and trains before cars and planes.  Methanol fuel cells also work extremely well, and methanol is a small percentage waste product of ethanol production.  Do you think an ethanol only based fuel cycle is feasible?  What types of engines actually work well?

As I recall the main problem is lubrication.  Petrofuels are more lubricating while alcohols have an opposite effect.  They do work well enough in external combustion engines where the frictional parts are lubricated with oils and the alcohol has no contact with the frictional surfaces but in ICEs there are problems.  This is where fuel cells look better for things like ethanol.  I’m guessing mostly

Edited by darthgently
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1 hour ago, darthgently said:

As I recall the main problem is lubrication.  Petrofuels are more lubricating while alcohols have an opposite effect.  They do work well enough in external combustion engines where the frictional parts are lubricated with oils and the alcohol has no contact with the frictional surfaces but in ICEs there are problems.  This is where fuel cells look better for things like ethanol.  I’m guessing mostly

Steam engines can run on anything including wood. Now IC engines has an oil sump for lubrication. Yes some parts not in contact with oil like cylinder rings might be a bit harder. Might work to add some oil to the fuel as on 2 stroke engines. More of an issue is that bio ethanol as in moonshine would be more expensive than fossil fuel. 

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On 9/24/2024 at 7:29 AM, farmerben said:

Imagine for some reason you were completely fossil fuel free but still allowed to use ethanol fuel. 

If you're going to be using ethanol for fuel, you should just have a normal turbofan engines. Ethanol makes for a crap fuel for a number of reasons, but nearly all of them are going to impact your fuel cells the same way as a turbofan.

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On 9/30/2024 at 3:29 PM, magnemoe said:

Steam engines can run on anything including wood.

The gasgenerator cars (see above) are using anything with carbon, first of all the wood.

And they are more effective that the external combustion engines like the steam or the stirling ones.

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6 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

The gasgenerator cars (see above) are using anything with carbon, first of all the wood.

And they are more effective that the external combustion engines like the steam or the stirling ones.

They are more efficient than steam, then I can see them becoming very common, ethanol would be the performance fuel I say.

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11 minutes ago, magnemoe said:

They are more efficient than steam, then I can see them becoming very common, ethanol would be the performance fuel I say.

They are kind of hybrid ECE and ICE as the wood has to be heated to release the wood gas.  

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Just now, darthgently said:

They are kind of hybrid ECE and ICE as the wood has to be heated to release the wood gas.  

Yes so you get steam engine start up times.  I'm not sure how you regulate the fuel flow with this, like the gas pedal, seen some WW 2 busses with gas bags on the roof, I assume to have ready to use gas accelerating. 

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