[1.0.5] FASA 5.44

[Kerbal01]

Interesting, what was its intended purpose?

[generalmiller]

Interesting, what was its intended purpose?

The Big Gemini was mainly intended to transport crew and supplies to a space station.

[CaptRobau]

Basically Big Gemini was a logistics spacecraft, that would've been used to ferry personnel and cargo to the many space stations that NASA had planned. That part contained extra room for passengers.Here's more information.

Props on the new part Frizzank, looks great. It seems that you've combined the Passenger Compartment, Retro Module and Maneuvering and Cargo Module though. Is that intentional, because the latter two would separate before reentry, exposing the Passenger Compartment's heat shield. This would come down to Kerbin without an heat shield protecting it.

Made a Direct Ascent Gemini as you requested, but there are some problems.

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The ladder part on the pod only extends over the red part, meaning you can't maneuver to the center. If the yellow part could be made to be crawled upon, Kerbals can easily get from the Gemini door to the central ladder. The lander legs are the stock small ones. They can land it, but those legs are really squirmy. Needs some more rigid legs. AIES has some great ones, maybe its creator will lend you use of one.

Then there's the overall problems I've encountered with this pack. For one, electrical use is ridiculously high. Put on RCS and SAS and it's drained like that. Unless I put on solar panel, I always run out even with the fuel cell. I suggest at least removing the electrical drain on your RCS modules and letting just the SAS/reaction wheel simulate the energy use of the craft. Second is the inability of the Gemini to hold a course. I can understand you wanting to rely on RCS for rotation, jawing and pitching, like IRL, but the SAS just needs a little bit extra power to keep it locked in. If you raise it just a bit you'd still need to use RCS to make major maneuvers, but at least you wouldn't have to keep manually pointing the ship during burns, etc. Finally I'd give the Gemini pod itself SAS. Now only the part below it (between the pod and the engine) has SAS. After you ditch before going down into the atmosphere, there is thus no control over your ship. It can't keep an orientation, meaning the pod always spins wildly before the air currents stabilize you. If that happened in real life though, the astronauts would fry up. The pod would definitely have been able to keep some orientation.

Edited September 24, 2013 by CaptRobau

[frizzank]

Basically Big Gemini was a logistics spacecraft, that would've been used to ferry personnel and cargo to the many space stations that NASA had planned. That part contained extra room for passengers.Here's more information.

Props on the new part Frizzank, looks great. It seems that you've combined the Passenger Compartment, Retro Module and Maneuvering and Cargo Module though. Is that intentional, because the latter two would separate before reentry, exposing the Passenger Compartment's heat shield. This would come down to Kerbin without an heat shield protecting it.

Made a Direct Ascent Gemini as you requested, but there are some problems.

The ladder part on the pod only extends over the red part, meaning you can't maneuver to the center. If the yellow part could be made to be crawled upon, Kerbals can easily get from the Gemini door to the central ladder. The lander legs are the stock small ones. They can land it, but those legs are really squirmy. Needs some more rigid legs. AIES has some great ones, maybe its creator will lend you use of one.

Then there's the overall problems I've encountered with this pack. For one, electrical use is ridiculously high. Put on RCS and SAS and it's drained like that. Unless I put on solar panel, I always run out even with the fuel cell. I suggest at least removing the electrical drain on your RCS modules and letting just the SAS/reaction wheel simulate the energy use of the craft. Second is the inability of the Gemini to hold a course. I can understand you wanting to rely on RCS for rotation, jawing and pitching, like IRL, but the SAS just needs a little bit extra power to keep it locked in. If you raise it just a bit you'd still need to use RCS to make major maneuvers, but at least you wouldn't have to keep manually pointing the ship during burns, etc. Finally I'd give the Gemini pod itself SAS. Now only the part below it (between the pod and the engine) has SAS. After you ditch before going down into the atmosphere, there is thus no control over your ship. It can't keep an orientation, meaning the pod always spins wildly before the air currents stabilize you. If that happened in real life though, the astronauts would fry up. The pod would definitely have been able to keep some orientation.

So to make it just like real life I would have had to put it on top of a 3.75m adapter. Thats why I combined the crew compartment. This thing didn't fly on top of a Titan, it was going to be on a Saturn V sized rocket, at least thats what I gathered from the Internets.

So What I am asking is do you want it bigger? I am not going down the road of making a Saturn V Gemini launcher just yet, may be fun later though. For now you would just have to download NovaPunch, or just use a 3.75m to 2.5m adapter.

Ladders, well Kerbals can't climb sideways, witch would solve a lot of problems. I could move the entry/exit point on the pod to the middle since they only use one for exit anyways, but that would be weird to get into and out of in between the hatches instead of actually on top of the hatch. Maybe I will just add some extra hand holds on the thing. For now your just going to have to put your ladders where the hatch is.

As for the Gemini SAS I'm removing the gyro controls on the SAS and putting SAS on the pod. I was hoping that it would work so that as it came on it would draw electricity but not really roll the craft so there would be some resource management as an extra electrical system, but it just turned out to be annoying. If you left the gyro on and sas on you would drain all of your electricity if you time warped. This wouldn't be a problem if you could engage the generator when power was drained but that's not the case.

You should have plenty of mono to run the generators as needed to have enough electricity for the whole trip. Assuming you don't leave SAS and your lights on the entire time.

The mono on the pod is more than enough for maneuvering before re-entry. Your going to have to save enough for that so there is some resource management.

[Guest]

Maybe you could include the big Maneuvering And Cargo Module as an optional attachment? Along with a 3.75m docking adapter for NP/Saturn I (HBI Kerturn I) users.

[CaptRobau]

According to Astronautix the Big G would've launched with a modified Titan III, which would also be used to launch MOL (which you've thought about doing I think):

Total mass of the Big G would depend on the launch vehicle. The Titan 3M version would total 15,600 kg, delivering 9 crew and 2,500 kg of supplies to MOL in a 480 km, 50 degree inclination orbit. The NASA INT-20 version weighed 47,300 kg and could deliver 9 crew and 27,300 kg of payload to the same orbit. The Titan 3G configuration would have an orbital insertion mass of 59,000 kg in a 28.5 degree, 150 x 220 km orbit.

So you wouldn't necessarily need to extend to 3.75m. I built an example of what I mean from your other parts (see link below). The top is the normal Gemini pod, the Winged Gemini thing below that is the Passenger Compartment. Between that imagine a decoupler (to separate the reentry stuff from the rest of the craft). The red/black striped fuel thing represents the Maneuvering and Cargo Module. It'd be a bit bigger, but the general shape would be the same. Doesn't look too bad I think. The crew would have a less room than in the actual Big G, but I think it's a good alternative to going 3.75m.

http://i.imgur.com/tjQyKzN.png

Whatever you do, I'm really looking forward to it.

[frizzank]

Im going to go with this design

[Guest]

Well, that would indeed require expansion to 3.75m. If you want a Titan-based launch, you'd be better off with this one:

It could use the crew section you have so far, if only you'd replace the docking port with a heatshield and retro pack. Aft of that, a new MCM.

Edited September 24, 2013 by Guest

[CaptRobau]

Or you could do both. It'd be a shame to waste that docking port.

[RoboRay]

Wow, six kerbals in there? Does it actually have enough volume for them and the other stuff? It does look great, though!

I also have some concerns about the gold-foil heat-shield.

Anyway, I've been having a lot of fun with the Winged Gemini:

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I found that it's controllable at much lower speeds if you shift the weight back on the wing by inserting the RCS ring module between the capsule and the wing adapter. I discovered the hard way that it can tumble completely out of control if you over-bank the craft at low speed, so I reconfigured the drogue parachutes to deploy and release individually to get the pointy end stabilized out front again... which came in handy when I rolled it too far while circling around to bleed off speed and altitude and get into position for the runway approach. I didn't manage to snap any pictures of that, but you can see one of the parachutes is gone toward the end.

Thanks for the parts!

Edited September 24, 2013 by RoboRay

[Guest]

Actually, I think that this docking port could go on the MCM's aft. Just split if off and add a cylindrical module with monoprop in between. Model the retropack/heatshield and you're good.

[frizzank]

Wow, six kerbals in there? Does it actually have enough volume for them and the other stuff? It does look great, though!

I also have some concerns about the gold-foil heat-shield.

Anyway, I've been having a lot of fun with the Winged Gemini:

I found that it's controllable at much lower speeds if you shift the weight back on the wing by inserting the RCS ring module between the capsule and the wing adapter. I discovered the hard way that it can tumble completely out of control if you over-bank the craft at low speed, so I reconfigured the drogue parachutes to deploy and release individually to get the pointy end stabilized out front again... which came in handy when I rolled it too far while circling around to bleed off speed and altitude and get into position for the runway approach. I didn't manage to snap any pictures of that, but you can see one of the parachutes is gone toward the end.

Thanks for the parts!

Thanks I have a lot of fun with it as well. I kind of like the fact that you can stall the thing and it goes into a spin, gives it more of a challenge to fly.

[CaptRobau]

@Roboray

You inspired me to land at KSP as well, and with your rebuild suggestions it worked.

@Frizzank

How do you feel about raising the ejection force of the Gemini Docking Nosecone? In atmo the wind resistance is greater than the ejection force so it ejects for a bit and then softly collides with the capsule every time.

[frizzank]

Nice, I will increase the max drag on the nosecone so it floats away better.

[frizzank]

So I made the crew capsule shorter, made the docking portion larger and its own piece. Really only works with Gemini, but you got to have a heat shield!

Last image is the seperated BigG parts and a preview of the Manned Orbital Laboratory (MOL). Im making an adapter for BigG so its possible to launch it with just my mod and stock parts. If you like you can download NovaPunch and do a 3.75 m rocket if you wish, it will fit nicely on them.

MOL is going to be a little wider than the standard 2.5m parts so it fits with the BigG crew compartment and gives more room for kerbals. The bottom will still be 2.5m and fit stock parts so you can still do the titan launch.

Textures and models are still being worked on....

[Pariah89]

How do you feel about raising the ejection force of the Gemini Docking Nosecone? In atmo the wind resistance is greater than the ejection force so it ejects for a bit and then softly collides with the capsule every time.

Sounds to me like you're going into atmo the wrong way round. The other thing you could do is eject it slightly higher in the atmo (where the air is thinner) and it will eject further.

I was just thinking the other day that the ejection force was pretty high on the nose cone.

[bs1110101]

Not to complain, but the wings need FAR support!

[Guest]

Looks nice, but the MOL is a bit short. When I first saw it I thought you were making a Big Gemini the way I suggested. It was as long as Titan's first stage, IIRC.

[CaptRobau]

Nice, I will increase the max drag on the nosecone so it floats away better.

That's a great solution. The new Big G/MOL stuff is great.

Sounds to me like you're going into atmo the wrong way round. The other thing you could do is eject it slightly higher in the atmo (where the air is thinner) and it will eject further.

I was just thinking the other day that the ejection force was pretty high on the nose cone.

The heat shield is pointed retrograde. Could be that I'm ejecting too low, but frizzank's higher drag solution solves the problem. It won't shoot of now, it just won't fall down as easy. Which is better.

[NathanKell]

That's your problem right there. Heatshield is for where the heat is, i.e. prograde.

frizzank, great to see Big G!

[frizzank]

Not to complain, but the wings need FAR support!

How do I add FAR support?

[bs1110101]

How do I add FAR support?

I'd tell you if i had any idea.

[GavinZac]

How do I add FAR support?

I think it's something to do with the name you give the part. I know that much is true with fairings and nosecones.

[frizzank]

Radial engines are optional, and I hate hatch triggers...

[NathanKell]

FAR support involves calculating a few aerodynamic properties. On the FAR thread, someone periodically asks, and ferram answers very nicely. I think all you need is wing area, cL, and...hmmm. Don't recall the rest off-hand.

But if you ask there, I'm sure ferram or others would be happy to walk you through it. It's pretty easy.