LLL - Lack Luster Labs - Development Thread

[AntiMatter001]

SXT-alpha-0-8-1.zip

Small update. Nothing too fancy, one or two bug fixes, added NERVAs to tech-tree, added an inflatable airbag.

Testing with a vertical and a lateral impacts.

http://imgur.com/a/z0Law

I'll probably need to tweak the crash tolerance a bit, currently 30m/s but if you have a few you can survive a drop at terminal velocity on Kerbin.

HOW DO YOU DO THIS!?

honestly you come up with more and more great things o.O

also ever seen the CP Airbags mod? this is kinda like that...

[GavinZac]

Yay! Someone made an alternative to CP_airbags. And of course it was Lack. testing them now. Bit big for probes I think but perfect for 'things that should not fly'.

[kiwiak]

Excellent pack - small cargo bay, empty treuss structure, inflatable fuel tank, rcs boom, airbgs - just too much awesomeness.

I have small issue with airbags thought. When i add mor ethan one, VAB animations start to lag. And if i inflate ingame, it starts to lag too.

Also, how about tweakables for cargo bay doors?

[sharpspoonful]

Bit big for probes I think but perfect for 'things that should not fly'.

And I think that is going to be my new quote.

[Parkaboy]

Loved the airbags! This pack improves day by day.

But the airbags and the "inflatable" fuel tanks got me wondering: can we have inflatable tanks that actually inflate? It would be greatly useful when building interplanetary ships: you send the ship into orbit with most of its tanks neatly folded inside their casings, then inflate them in orbit and fill them up with fuel runs, or even with fuel extracted from Minmus using kethane. Maybe these tanks could be similar to the airbags, but slightly larger, and matching the colors of the other balloon tanks. Porkjet uses a plugin that makes his habs only receive crew when inflated; perhaps it could be adapted to do the same but with fuel. What do you think, Lack?

[bazz]

SXT-alpha-0-8-1.zip

Small update. Nothing too fancy, one or two bug fixes, added NERVAs to tech-tree, added an inflatable airbag.

Testing with a vertical and a lateral impacts.

I'll probably need to tweak the crash tolerance a bit, currently 30m/s but if you have a few you can survive a drop at terminal velocity on Kerbin.

Are the airbags buoyant in water?

[wasmic]

Loved the airbags! This pack improves day by day.

But the airbags and the "inflatable" fuel tanks got me wondering: can we have inflatable tanks that actually inflate? It would be greatly useful when building interplanetary ships: you send the ship into orbit with most of its tanks neatly folded inside their casings, then inflate them in orbit and fill them up with fuel runs, or even with fuel extracted from Minmus using kethane. Maybe these tanks could be similar to the airbags, but slightly larger, and matching the colors of the other balloon tanks. Porkjet uses a plugin that makes his habs only receive crew when inflated; perhaps it could be adapted to do the same but with fuel. What do you think, Lack?

BahamutoD made a mod that allows exactly that to happen. Actually, the tank will inflate as you fill it up and deflate as it's emptied.

[Parkaboy]

BahamutoD made a mod that allows exactly that to happen. Actually, the tank will inflate as you fill it up and deflate as it's emptied.

I searched, but only found the plugin that allows the containers to animate according with how much resources they hold. Did he made the actual parts?

[Varses]

Lack, I absolutely love this mod and the aesthetic and I really only have one complaint--the part organization (in the Game Data folder) is a bit mess.

I've got a lot of mods installed and I'm trying to get rid of parts I'll probably never use (to save RAM and menu space in the VAB) but it's really hard and unintuitive to find a lot of your parts. Like, the .cfg and texture for the kethane converter is in the command folder in parts/command/LLL2x1ASAS. Most folders have .cfgs and textures for multiple parts which makes it very hard to sort through and find what I want--I have to go into the .cfg files and read the title of the part.

Since .cfg files can reference models in a different folder, I'm pretty sure you can put each of the .cfgs and stuff into their own folder and have them all reference the same model. Would you mind if I did this? Or would that tread on your toes?

[K3-Chris]

Are the airbags buoyant in water?

If not it's easy to MM on either firespitter or Hooligan buoyancy

[kiwiak]

BahamutoD made a mod that allows exactly that to happen. Actually, the tank will inflate as you fill it up and deflate as it's emptied.

Link please.

[Boamere]

Just look at Bahamuto's profile page and find his started threads

[Lack]

@AntiMatter,

Yep, that's where I initially got the idea from.

@kiwiak,

Squad haven't implemented tweakables for 'ModuleAnimateGeneric' yet. Hopefully that should come with 0.24, but for now you can use the firespitter plugin and set it up in the same way that B9 aerospace does (check the .cfg for those cargo-bays).

I'm waiting till that rather than requiring a plugin. You can also just replace MAG with the landing gear module, but that's annoying.

The lag is since KSP doesn't much care for rescaling collision meshes. I wonder if a cylinder collider would be less cpu intensive.

@Parkaboy,

I am planning parts for BahamutoD's mod, but they won't necessarily be native to SXT. For the SXT part, 'Inflatable' may be a slight misnomer as the method of construction, and if it is a 'true' ballion tank, isn't discussed. I don't want SXT to be reliant on plugins, so I'll have to have a look at Bahamuto's mod to see if I can add support without requiring it.

Edit: Seems like it should be possible to do.

I'll be having a look at buoyancy as well.

@Varses,

If you could do that, that would be absolutely fantastic. It's one of those jobs that I've marked down as 'incredibly boring' in my head. LLL is currently a bit of a jenga tower, the whole thing needs ripping down and re-organising. I would strongly recommend keeping the .mu files in an entirely separate folder (i.e. LLL/ with the sub-folders "Parts/" "Spaces/" "Model/") since people often delete the directory and then find it f's up something else entirely. Like the LLL prefix, the current structure is a relic of previous versions of KSP and their part loaders. MODEL{} initally wasn't very reliable at all and tended to need to load cross-referenced models and textures in sequential load order. It's a lot more reliable now.

Be careful with the textures though. If you see a texture being required between different folders (i.e. not in the same sub-folder, but being spread between things like Command, Structural, Utility, etc) then I'd also suggest hiding that elsewhere so people don't shoot themselves in the foot.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Lack

[SciMan]

... The airbags and the "inflatable" fuel tanks got me wondering: can we have inflatable tanks that actually inflate? ...

I searched, but only found the plugin that allows the containers to animate according with how much resources they hold. Did he made the actual parts?

The only inflatable fuel tanks I'm familiar with are the ones included in Bobcat's HOME2 pack, but they don't use a custom plugin. That means that they allow you to transfer fuel to them even in the fully stowed state. Additionally, the deployment animation they use wouldn't look right if it was linked to the amount of fuel in the tanks.

... Porkjet uses a plugin that makes his habs only receive crew when inflated; perhaps it could be adapted to do the same but with fuel.

I don't write plugins, but I agree that modifying that plugin might be easier than starting from scratch.

IMO, a "bare bones" plugin for deployable tanks would only need to do two things.

1. Prevent fuel transfer to a stowed tank.
   
2. Prevent stowing a tank if it has stuff in it.
   

A plugin that does those two things would work for pretty much any kind of deployable resource container, including inflatable tanks like the HOME2 tanks (IRL examples: Flexible tanks, Fuel bladders, Bladder or Pillow tanks), and even things that aren't "tanks" per se like fold-out ore bins for exoplanetary launchpads.

... It would be greatly useful when building interplanetary ships: you send the ship into orbit with most of its tanks neatly folded inside their casings, then inflate them in orbit and fill them up with fuel runs, or even with fuel extracted from Minmus using kethane. Maybe these tanks could be similar to the airbags, but slightly larger, and matching the colors of the other balloon tanks.

An inflatable tank for use with spacecraft would probably need to be surrounded by a supporting exoskeletal space-frame to keep the tank's flexible membrane from moving around while under acceleration. However, that doesn't mean the support frame itself can't be collapsible as well.

[Boamere]

How come I don't have any of those fuel tanks? (the foil ones)Plus I don't have the singular 3.75m rocket for some reason.

:/

[Boamere]

Edit: actually let me just check on sandbox mode

Yep they aren't in the tech tree (DERP)

Edited March 6, 2014 by Boamere

[GavinZac]

Quick nag with one of the cooler parts - the Truck cab doors open and shut just fine when you're commanding the Vessel they're attached to, but you can't open or shut them on EVA. This means I have to leave the doors open while it's parked at my base in order to be able to hop in. This is a serious security issue, as any old Minmusoids could just come along and hop in. Anyway. Possible to fix? Unfortunately my own digging around only turned up parts that use the FS plugin.

[Talisar]

... Minmusoids ...

This may be the greatest word I've read all day

[AntiMatter001]

The only inflatable fuel tanks I'm familiar with are the ones included in Bobcat's HOME2 pack, but they don't use a custom plugin. That means that they allow you to transfer fuel to them even in the fully stowed state. Additionally, the deployment animation they use wouldn't look right if it was linked to the amount of fuel in the tanks.

I don't write plugins, but I agree that modifying that plugin might be easier than starting from scratch.

IMO, a "bare bones" plugin for deployable tanks would only need to do two things.

1. Prevent fuel transfer to a stowed tank.
   
2. Prevent stowing a tank if it has stuff in it.
   

A plugin that does those two things would work for pretty much any kind of deployable resource container, including inflatable tanks like the HOME2 tanks (IRL examples: Flexible tanks, Fuel bladders, Bladder or Pillow tanks), and even things that aren't "tanks" per se like fold-out ore bins for exoplanetary launchpads.

An inflatable tank for use with spacecraft would probably need to be surrounded by a supporting exoskeletal space-frame to keep the tank's flexible membrane from moving around while under acceleration. However, that doesn't mean the support frame itself can't be collapsible as well.

uhm dudes your missing a VERY big point here...

it's called surface attaching. the contaners and launchpad in baha drills don't do this. actually what i found out is that when the containers are full the little sticky out bits have their own colision meshes (when i was trying out a drill conected to a fuel tank it hit the top canister when it was full and dropped off....) so although it's a Great idea... it may not be the Best idea...

but then again if you want fuel tanks that do that but you can't mount anything on them then go ahead. (oh wait that would mean you'd have to have the engine on the core module instead of the bottom of the side inflatable tanks... also it would have to take into account the different masses when the tanks are full and draining...)

[AntiMatter001]

Quick nag with one of the cooler parts - the Truck cab doors open and shut just fine when you're commanding the Vessel they're attached to, but you can't open or shut them on EVA. This means I have to leave the doors open while it's parked at my base in order to be able to hop in. This is a serious security issue, as any old Minmusoids could just come along and hop in. Anyway. Possible to fix? Unfortunately my own digging around only turned up parts that use the FS plugin.

EDIT: oops i think he means the ladybug.

try putting a probe onto it and controlling it from there... mechjeb will do too. (this is what i usually do)

Edited March 6, 2014 by AntiMatter001

[bs1110101]

Why not use this plugin to make the inflatable tanks work? http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/71247-WIP-Plugin-Animation-Modules-alpha-v0-1-available

[kiwiak]

Lack i have some idea for nice airbag for you

Something mk-2 compatible. Flat part, nicely fitting under heatshield. Upon inflataton 4 airbags are released, protecting bottom of capsule.

Well, right now i can use cubic octogonal strut between heatshield and pod and put 4 yours airbags inbetween... but you know just saying.

By the way, why dont you make truss open from onside like NASA project?

It woudl allow for easily getting rid of spent tanks.

Edited March 6, 2014 by kiwiak

[Varses]

I love this mod but...well, the file organization is kinda a mess. Parts are often in folders completely unrelated to them. Like, the files for the Kethane Converter part are in the command folder

Also, is there a reason why there are often multiple parts (sometimes 3 or 4) coded in the same .cfg file? I'm not being sarcastic--I'm genuinely curious. I'm tempted to make a seperate .cfg file for each part but I'm worried that might break my save.

I've got a lot of mods and I'm trying to go through and delete parts I won't use in order to save on RAM and space in the VAB. But I'm finding many LLL parts extremely difficult to find because they don't have seperate .cfgs or they're stored in (IMHO) illogical places.

[Lack]

Quick nag with one of the cooler parts - the Truck cab doors open and shut just fine when you're commanding the Vessel they're attached to, but you can't open or shut them on EVA. This means I have to leave the doors open while it's parked at my base in order to be able to hop in. This is a serious security issue, as any old Minmusoids could just come along and hop in. Anyway. Possible to fix? Unfortunately my own digging around only turned up parts that use the FS plugin.

Not without a plugin.

@Boamere,

For obvious reasons I've just been using sandbox mode for modding, keep forgetting that career mode is a thing.

@bs010101010,

That's the plugin by BahamutoD that people are talking about.

@kiwiak,

It's planned.

[SSSPutnik]

I'd really love a lander capsule, 5 man, that you can attach stuff to sides/top/bottom, with IVA and that doesn't look like a can of tuna with the label torn off.

Willing to Paypal donate!

Oh, and it should weight scale with the stock pods. I don't like unbalanced parts