LLL - Lack Luster Labs - Development Thread

[MrWizerd]

I have not messed with the tug tbh I will have to test them. The new requirement to have a licence for everything is a little bit of a pain to easily share simple files like that, they have to be zipped now. However, I will get with lack to findout how he would like to distribute them.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9m8hhmcdkjk4wtc/LLL_MMConfigs.zip?dl=0

This is licensed under share and share alike 4 similar to LLL for now. I will leave it here till I discuss this with Lack.

Edited September 6, 2014 by MrWizerd

[The Mechanic]

Small bug report: In the "Agents" configuration file are two typos.

logoURL = SSXT/Agencies/KDB
[...]
logoURL = SSXT/Agencies/ArmSiddRoyEng

The debug log says that it can't find the logos for the agents.

It should be fine when changed to:

logoURL = SXT/Agencies/KDB
[...]
logoURL = SXT/Agencies/ArmSiddRoyEng

[Lack]

I have not messed with the tug tbh I will have to test them. The new requirement to have a licence for everything is a little bit of a pain to easily share simple files like that, they have to be zipped now. However, I will get with lack to findout how he would like to distribute them.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9m8hhmcdkjk4wtc/LLL_MMConfigs.zip?dl=0

This is licensed under share and share alike 4 similar to LLL for now. I will leave it here till I discuss this with Lack.

I'm wondering if it'd be okay to just have the licence at the very top of the config actually.

@ NathanKell,

Thanks. Moving fell a bit behind since I have to work for the next few weekends, only half days, but kind of a nuisance. So I'm currently in between proper computers, so no modding for me for a little while

@oniontrain,

Thanks, glad you like them.

Actually,

Since I can't really do proper modding at the moment and get therefore distracted by 'shiny' every 5 minutes, I might as well think about polishing.

So, which part of SXT do you not like, what needs improvement, which areas need expanding, anything missing that you'd like to see. And what works well currently, I suppose. I had started an overhaul of KSC++, what sort of things might be nice there? For LLL, well, perhaps wait till I get a new version out (which I really do need to get round to... eventually).

No guarantees any of it will get done, but I can at least think about it.

Edited September 6, 2014 by Lack

[AccidentalDisassembly]

I have not messed with the tug tbh I will have to test them. The new requirement to have a licence for everything is a little bit of a pain to easily share simple files like that, they have to be zipped now. However, I will get with lack to findout how he would like to distribute them.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9m8hhmcdkjk4wtc/LLL_MMConfigs.zip?dl=0

This is licensed under share and share alike 4 similar to LLL for now. I will leave it here till I discuss this with Lack.

I saw a couple references to new cargo bay parts in those configs, did those get released at some point?

[somnambulist]

Hey Lack -

So, which part of SXT do you not like, what needs improvement, which areas need expanding, anything missing that you'd like to see. And what works well currently, I suppose. I had started an overhaul of KSC++, what sort of things might be nice there?

SXT: Low hanging fruit like updating/adding part descriptions could add a lot of value. As for parts, I'd like to see some both larger and smaller structural elements (girders, panels, etc.)

KSC++: How about a rocket garden? An additional launchpad would be cool as well.

[Reichtangle]

Will we someday be seeing IVAs for the large habitats?

[Lack]

SXT: Low hanging fruit like updating/adding part descriptions could add a lot of value. As for parts, I'd like to see some both larger and smaller structural elements (girders, panels, etc.)

KSC++: How about a rocket garden? An additional launchpad would be cool as well.

Adding part descriptions is something that I had been working at, takes longer than you'd think actually. Yeah, I'd like to have something a bit larger, possibly something along the lines of the ISS truss.

Both good ideas, rocket garden may be reasonably basic tecture-wise, I seem to recall Kerbtown not liking MODEL{}.

@AccidentalDisassembly,

They'll be the configs for the WIP version of LLL, so some'll reference unreleased parts.

@Reichtangle,

Yes, plan is to eventually have everything have an IVA that fits.

[SpaceCommanderNemo]

So, which part of SXT do you not like, what needs improvement, which areas need expanding, anything missing that you'd like to see. And what works well currently, I suppose. I had started an overhaul of KSC++, what sort of things might be nice there? For LLL, well, perhaps wait till I get a new version out (which I really do need to get round to... eventually).

No guarantees any of it will get done, but I can at least think about it.

It would be really neat to have both LLL and SXT follow in B9's footsteps and use tweakables. Not only to reduce part clutter like B9 did, but to make available a few parts that aren't covered; 1x1x1 liquid fuel tank, 1x1 monoprop tanks, etc. With Tweakscale, there's no need for a line of 2x2 or 4x2 parts, so that would reduce some clutter too.

I've come to really appreciate how nice the SXT pack is for fuel tanks - they're far less buggy than KW's parts and much less demanding on memory because of the way you use the textures. I get significantly better FPS when I build a giant rocket out of SXT tanks over KW. The only thing the pack really lacks is engine variety. The extra few engines are good but they're marginally different from stock, and I like more variety over "hey, it's basically an LVT-45 with a different look".

I also really like the parts you've made for other mods and put in the pack. Perhaps some Liquid Methane tanks in the SXT pack (since interstellar only has a few in the 3.75 meter variety), or some Karbonite/Kethane tanks or engines of varying sizes and shapes. Now I'm giggling to myself about a Karbonite powered Tsar... There could be some fun there.

Edited September 6, 2014 by SpaceCommanderNemo

[AccidentalDisassembly]

It would be really neat to have both LLL and SXT follow in B9's footsteps and use tweakables. Not only to reduce part clutter like B9 did, but to make available a few parts that aren't covered; 1x1x1 liquid fuel tank, 1x1 monoprop tanks, etc. With Tweakscale, there's no need for a line of 2x2 or 4x2 parts, so that would reduce some clutter too.

I've come to really appreciate how nice the SXT pack is for fuel tanks - they're far less buggy than KW's parts and much less demanding on memory because of the way you use the textures. I get significantly better FPS when I build a giant rocket out of SXT tanks over KW. The only thing the pack really lacks is engine variety. The extra few engines are good but they're marginally different from stock, and I like more variety over "hey, it's basically an LVT-45 with a different look".

I also really like the parts you've made for other mods and put in the pack. Perhaps some Liquid Methane tanks in the SXT pack (since interstellar only has a few in the 3.75 meter variety), or some Karbonite/Kethane tanks or engines of varying sizes and shapes. Now I'm giggling to myself about a Karbonite powered Tsar... There could be some fun there.

I think MrWizerd already did some work on standardizing tanks using MFT - so you'd have only one 2x1 fuel tank part and pick your fuels.

[NathanKell]

Well, if you're going to *ask* for requests...

I'd like to re-request a version of the radial intake that has a shock cone (think Mirage III/2000 or F-104), and the radial canopies (though that's a big project).

Also, bouncing off what SpaceCommanderNemo said, engines are great. Especially tankbuttless engines with sane area ratios

(in particular, it'd be very nice to see, for instance, a Mainsail or Skipper where you can see the cycle (gas generator? staged combustion?) and the area ratio makes sense for the role and the (cycle- and role-dependent) chamber pressure.

[Lack]

@SpaceCommanderNemo,

Yep, the next LLL is set up with tweakables, mostly using firespitter and tweakscale will be recommended. I posted screenshots of it a while ago, I'll see if I can find them.

With the UV map, the pipes were the easiest part to do while keeping size to a minimum.

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I've also fiddled a bit more with the standard tanks MrWizerd set up for the 1x1 and 2x1, so they're all set up now to use Firespitter to switch the textures and fuels. Cuts it down from a gazzilion parts to a handful.

What'd you'd recommend for engines? I thought they were fairly nice selection of shapes, stats, while been pretty balanced.

Mod dependent parts are certainly do-able (all glory to ModuleManager:NEEDS[Hypnotoad])

@NathanKell,

Radial intake is do-able (and something I keep meaning to do, but keep getting distracted, despite the fact it's only about a 10 minute job). Canopies would be nice (I had that post bookmarked), I started with that a while ago, but ended up not making the bf-109 radial I intended to make, but somehowbecoming the He-111 cockpit in the SXT pre-release.

The 'tankbuttless stock' sort of fell on its face a bit when I couldn't get the .mu importer to work, the tankbutless LTV-45 was made entirely from scratch and ended up taking ages.

[Guest]

Could you take a look at the Candlewax SRM? It seems some ugly-looking clipping is going on with it. Also, the 2x1 NERVA has a pre-tweakable alternator setup (causes NaN errors when right-clicking it).

As for requests, I'd love more airplane stuff. Some good-looking 1.25m engines, for example. LLL could use a 2x1 to 2x1.25 bicoupler. Also, IVAs. Right now, not every cockpit has one. It'd be especially great if the "bridge" pod had a normal COM and a bespoke IVA.

[Lack]

Could you take a look at the Candlewax SRM? It seems some ugly-looking clipping is going on with it. Also, the 2x1 NERVA has a pre-tweakable alternator setup (causes NaN errors when right-clicking it).

As for requests, I'd love more airplane stuff. Some good-looking 1.25m engines, for example. LLL could use a 2x1 to 2x1.25 bicoupler. Also, IVAs. Right now, not every cockpit has one. It'd be especially great if the "bridge" pod had a normal COM and a bespoke IVA.

Could you post a screenshot? Yeah, the alternator set ups should all have been fixed for the new version.

For the bi-cupoler, you could possibly use the 2x1 bi-coupler then the 1x1 to 1.25m, but I seem to recall having two 'couplers' in a row causing difficulty. The CoM on the bridge was to try and adjust for using the IVA from the hog. I'd like for the LLL parts to have their own IVAs, it's incredibly tedious though, so it's always a case of 'maybe next month'. It's like that with LLL in general, I go between being really interested in it, and then wishing it would die in a ditch (normally when trying to get things like bug fixing done).

I was thinking of a airliner type radial engine pod or two, or perhaps have the engines as in-line and a radial mounting for engines, make it a bit more modular. I'd like to try my hand at a few more prop engines and perhaps the odd helicopter rotor.

[StefanJ]

http://i.imgur.com/ZUA4CUM.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/qMTRTKh.png

Current mods. LLL-Full, LLL-Lite, SXT, KSC++

Scroll down for download links

Release thread here

________________________________________________

SXT - Stock eXTension

Apologies for the terrible abbreviation. I'm aiming to make a ultra-light 'Stock-a-like' expansion pack that relies solely using the MODEL{} to reference Squad's textures. Which means that the RAM usage is as low as you can get. lease note, if you have a mod that changes the stock textures or delete some textures,, this will cause problems with the SXT parts that use those.

--

SXT-17 Pre-release 2: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39086055/SXT-17-prerelease.zip - I still need to do things like balance costs, but it does have some new parts, like the lorries/trucks that drive round the KSC.

--

http://i.imgur.com/Dl9tBKt.png

A big thanks to SpannerMonkey(smce) for making the wheels for the KSC trucks.

________________________________________________

LLL - Lack Luster Labs Pack

Currently working on it:

Myself (Lack)

http://i.imgur.com/E0accsh.png

MrWizerd

http://i.imgur.com/anQacbd.jpg

________________________

Important Notice: RAM Usage

Any crashes you receive while using this mod will be due to running out of memory as it's purely a parts mod, see the FAQ for advice.

---

LLL-Full

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39086055/LLL-12-2.zip

N.B. You'll want something along the lines of CrewManifest or Vanguard to deal with moving crew around the hull parts and to air-locks, since the normal hull parts don't have an inbuilt hatch.

Optional:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39086055/LLL-12-Extra.zip - Additional parts, either less polished, slightly unbalanced or slightly silly.

Vanguard plugin

________________________________________________

KSC++

http://i.imgur.com/jlrQ7mH.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/ztttXPq.gif

Extension to the Kerbal Space Centre, trains, cars, trees, the whole shebang.

v3: Fixed a missing collision mesh and train animation not looping.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39086055/KSCPlusPlusv3.zip

Requires an up to date version of Kerbtown

______

Github for bug-reporting:

https://github.com/Signatum/LLL/issues

______

FAQ:

Install instructions:

The 'LLL' folder (containing 'Parts', 'Ships' & 'Spaces') must placed in GameData.

KSP_win\GameData\LLL\

if you do not do this majority of the parts will not load. This is because the majority of the parts use the MODEL{} function, which requires the pathway be exact. e.g.

MODEL
{
    model = LLL/Parts/FuelTank/LLL2x1/model
    texture = model001_NRM , LLL/Parts/Structural/LLL2x1Hull/HullNorm
}

KSP starts crashing when I install LLL.

Things to try:

> Go to the game's options: Turn texture resolution to 'Half Res', for some reason this reduces the memory usage (especially between screen changes).

> Use this: 'Active Texture Managemen'

> Start deleting parts. Best be careful with the LLL ones, a lot of parts reference other part's models and textures. Try just deleting the textures and .cfg for parts and leave the .mu file, at first.

Can I have the cargo bays open and close in the editor?

Yes, but you'll need to download the Firespitter plugin and do it the same way B9 Aerospace does. Here's a link explaining how to do it. Hopefully Squad will finish the tweakables in 0.24 and I can add it in.

________________________

Modding info

___________

.blender files with UV maps available for individual parts on request.

________________________

Licence info

___________

http://i.imgur.com/3zs9Emz.png

Lack Luster Labs by Lack is licensed under Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 4.0 International (CC BY-NC-SA 4.0).

Could you maybe add a parts list so that we can use this mod in multiplayer? me and a mate want too play it but cant play it without having to add the list of parts it uses. theres alot!

[Spacepetscompany]

Did you really have to quote the whole first post?

[AccidentalDisassembly]

Regarding firespitter for switching tanks - MFT might be a better option, at least for the moment, if you're also wanting this to be compatible with TweakScale, which currently can't handle firespitter tank-swaps. Haven't seen Biotronic post in a while, not sure if that will change in the reasonably near future.

[Guest]

Firespitter is already used by SXT, though. I think LLL should stick Firespitter, especially since it'd also be great for cargobays (with sound!) and a lot of other things.

[The Mechanic]

Roads? Where we're going, we don't need roads. Sorry, I couldn't resist.

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This is Jeb's Mark 2 Hovertruck. Surprisingly it works. And it works much better than Mark 1 which lacked some features, most importantly I forgot the probe core. I'm a terrible at creating and flying such things so I rely on Vertical Velocity Control and MechJeb to make it do what I want so that I only have to give it some steering impulses. Maybe I'll make a Mark 3 version sometime.

Edited September 26, 2014 by The Mechanic

[AccidentalDisassembly]

Firespitter is already used by SXT, though. I think LLL should stick Firespitter, especially since it'd also be great for cargobays (with sound!) and a lot of other things.

There's no law that says you can't use both - Firespitter for the animations and MFT configs provided as well. Anyway, I take it back, since TweakScale also has annoying problems with MFT when parts are in symmetry. Good times.

[NathanKell]

Lack,

Heh.

Does the mu importer work now? taniwha's constantly improving it; and if it doesn't, give him a holler and I'm sure he'll help. If you're still interested in that project, that is.

[Guest]

There's no law that says you can't use both - Firespitter for the animations and MFT configs provided as well. Anyway, I take it back, since TweakScale also has annoying problems with MFT when parts are in symmetry. Good times.

You'll always want the least dependencies you can get away with. Dependencies are a maintenance problem for the modder, the more there are, the bigger the problem.

[Lack]

Does the mu importer work now? taniwha's constantly improving it; and if it doesn't, give him a holler and I'm sure he'll help. If you're still interested in that project, that is.

No, I never did get it to work, always came up with a page of errors about shaders and materials. I suspect it was my install of Blender, hopefully it'll work when I get a new computer set up; borrowing one of these new fangled tablet thingies at the moment, I miss having a keyboard and mouse.

@ The Mechanic,

Very nice. Good to see the pipe parts getting some use, I'd be considering scrapping them.

@AccidentalDisassembly,Dragon01,

I had it all set up with firespitter so the stripe would change with the fuel, MrWizerd prefers MFT and had it set up like that. Could probably get it so it'd work with either using module manager, I had it set up so it'd work without firespitter as well, there'd just be a load more tanks.

[AccidentalDisassembly]

You'll always want the least dependencies you can get away with. Dependencies are a maintenance problem for the modder, the more there are, the bigger the problem.

Yes, but considering TweakScale is (apparently) something that the authors would like to be able to use with this mod, and considering Firespitter's tankswitching does not work at all with TweakScale, and considering that MFT does (kind of, so long as you don't use symmetry) work sometimes with MFT, ... you can see where I'm going with this. That said, it would all be rendered moot if TweakScale were either fixed or not particularly important for the authors, which may be the case!

[Cosmic_Farmer]

I've been trying out SXT. I really like some of the parts, but there does seem to be quite a bit of part spam. I like the Lacuga, although it could surely do with at least one window. Also, the rungs on the ladder of the CANIOT-7 crew cabin are far to spread apart for a kerbal to feasably climb them.

There seems to be a bug with the ISK-30 Heavy Orbital Laboratory. If I right click on it after launch, nothing happens, and it stops me from being able to right-click on anything else. I didn't notice this issue with any of the other parts. I'm using lots of other mods, so it could be an interference issue.

[Lack]

I've been trying out SXT. I really like some of the parts, but there does seem to be quite a bit of part spam. I like the Lacuga, although it could surely do with at least one window. Also, the rungs on the ladder of the CANIOT-7 crew cabin are far to spread apart for a kerbal to feasably climb them.

There seems to be a bug with the ISK-30 Heavy Orbital Laboratory. If I right click on it after launch, nothing happens, and it stops me from being able to right-click on anything else. I didn't notice this issue with any of the other parts. I'm using lots of other mods, so it could be an interference issue.

Which parts do you regard as spam? I've been trying to cut down on the chaff, so it's useful to know. (Actually, if people don't have module manager 2.0 or above, there's likely to be a load of older parts showing up. I should add that into the DL really, much of SXT wont work without it).

The CANIOT bit wasn't so much designed as wrungs, if I remember correctly there's only a few actual rungs in the depressed bit, but rather an EVA hand-hold frame, as seen on things like the Salyut stations. ISK-30 is probably because the mobile lab code is very temperamental, I think the same thing used to happen with the CANIOT before I removed that stuff from the .cfg.