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Whats the problem with DLCs?

Astronox

By Astronox
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Astronox

Astronox

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Hi.

A fews days ago, i´ve found this the "Official Statement on Expansions, DLC and the future of KSP"

Thread on reddit (http://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/1c5zmi/official_statement_on_expansions_dlc_and_the/).

On one hand, i understand the users that wan´t updates for free, cause Squad promised them they´ll get them for free when

buying the alpha. On the other hand, i´am a gamer since many years and i´ve seen a lot games coming and going.

Many games started, grown up and then they reached a point when they begin to die, cause the development costs stay high

while the number of sold copies is rapidly droping.

For me, KSP is the game that is what i (an many others) dreamed of as i was a kid with an 33MHz Intel DX-386 PC, playing games

like "Stunt Island" (what should get a reboot sometimes). Building your own rockets, spaceplanes and rovers, launch them to muns

and planets, where you´r Austronaut can leave the vehicle and walk over the surface at the whole planet - OMG how cool is that.

Yes, i understand the kids that had to buy the game with their spending money and this people that spend less time on this game.

But i think this game has a big potential and it is far away from beeing finished yet.

And beeing honest, where should squad draw the line between the things that are initial content and additional content?

Was a resource mining system promised from the beginning?

Million people buy the DLCs for games like XXX, where you get a weopon that is allready in the game, just with another colorsheme

for only 5 USD - what is nessesary for the software companie to survive, caue they only made 1 billion USD profit with this game.

But squad is evil, cause they want to offer additional content as DLC, that never was promised to be included with the alpha?

Really, I WANT TO PAY MORE, cause i wan´t this unique game beeing developed for the next years.

And i hope that they will find some things that can be sold as DLC, to get enough money to keep the progression of development going on.

You want to pay for an alpha where ALL further updates are included and you can wait a year for the smalles progression, bugfix or

new game content as soon as it reaches the final sales version? - Then you should try to get an "famous Block based game" Alpha key.

thx, Astronox

PS:

I´ve made a list of game that i bought the last 3 years thats disappointed me, how much i paid for them

and how long i played them:

Spore + creature DLC = gameplay is silly, designing creatues only affects their look = bye bye 30 USD / 10h

LA Noire = can´t play, a bug causes the character to keep running all the time = burned 23 USD / 0,2h

Mafia II = Bought as special bundle with DLCs, played it through = big disappointment, wasted about 30 USD / 15h

Take on Helicopters = Low performance, the "cyclic" rotor controls are wrong done, unplayable = 50 USD / 3h

IL2 - Cliffs of Dover = Runs with a few FPS on higend PC - bugged like hell = 60 USD / 2h

Borderlands I = Stupid shooter with stupid KI and dead world, ridicoules end = thrown away 24 USD / 12h

I´am alive = Bought it, played it one hour, deleted this fail = dumped 14 USD / 1h

From Dust = Nice game, but short and not what was promised = 10 USD / 9h

Red Orchestra II = Nothing like promised, reduced to a COD like shooter, bought the special edition = wasted 45 USD / 50h

Cities XL = Boring gameplay, runs slow on a PC with 6 Core CPU = 20 USD / 3h

PT Boats = Crashes a few minutes after the first mission starts = 9 USD / 1h

Metro 2033 = Boring, more sequences then game to play = 30 USD / 2h

World in Conflict = Plain gameplay, too much trial and error = 15 USD / 4h

...... and many others .....

And then look at KSP:

KSP (0.18) = fun as hell even at this early stage = 22 USD / 150h till now

(and at this point i didn´t get an orbital station, mun station, SSTO, Spaceplane .....)

Its one of only a few games that i played longer then some hours and that gets on the same List with games like

"Splinter Cell", "Bioshock", "Dangerous Waters", or "Alan Wake", which are the only games i own and played till the

end cause they didn´t suck like the most games of today.

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sal_vager

sal_vager

Posted
Posted

Well, this is still a touchy subject at the moment to be honest, but I'm sure Squad would be heartened by your post, it's just that there was wording that said all updates would be free, that makes it kinda hard to then sell an expansion pack later.

The moderation team is all for open discussion on KSP related stuff (no really!) but we will be watching this thread for arguments and flaming, so keep it civil please :)

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Paul Kingtiger

Paul Kingtiger

Posted
Posted

Looking at it from the perspective of what Squad have promised (everything free for people buying before the end of April) I think DLC is a great idea.

There are quite a few parts to the game that some players will want and others won't and it makes sense to offer these as DLC. That allows everyone to tailor the game to their requirements and wallets.

I absolutely agree that DLC is a great way to keep money flowing to the devs which means continued game development. The trick is to do a good job of selecting what will be DLC and what will be a free patch.

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Nimbus

Nimbus

Posted
Posted

Kerbal is an Amazing game,

I've Bought it 4 times already.

If there was a Donation box I would be putting money there too.

Heck if there was a Subscription fee for donation

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Fel

Fel

Posted
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DLC has a VERY bad name, in part because it is a meaningless term:

We have the "famous" DLC of horse armour, pay 1 USD for something a free mod could add... and is comparable to the free content offered by prior games.

Then we have the DLC that actually ADDS something to the game. Unfortunately, sometimes what is added fits far too well and it feels like the company left out a major portion of the game only to sell it at a later date (worse is when DLC content is released only a few weeks after the "official release.")

In this case, it really has nothing to do with expansions, updates, or DLC. I've seen it several times when people who purchased an alpha try and get more out of the developers; from the company standpoint, it is better to shut them up than to deal with the negative publicity.

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Bessy

Bessy

Posted
Posted

i second that donation comment made by (Nimbus) although i wouldn't see any point in buying the game more than once tho, well unless i knew ppl who some how had a computer good enough to play ksp but no money to buy it

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maxsil

maxsil

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I don't have any problem with DLC if it's done right.

But take a game like, say saints row 3 where they have a trillion DLC's with all kinds of bull**** that should have been in the base game, and then they have a ton of DLCs for stuff like cheat codes that takes 5 minutes to create that they charge 3,99 for

DLC should be stuff like new gameplay aspects coupled with new parts and such, not one extra part or horse armor.

I mean, in the future people will be so goddamn used to this microtransaction bull**** that paying 69.99 bucks for the base game and an extra 60 during gameplay so that the game won't come off as the half-assed crap that it is, be considered perfectly acceptable.

Now, i have no doubt that the KSP will not just be one extra parts or some crappy skins, but actual gameplay enchantments and different packs, but all devs arent based

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Astronox

Astronox

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Ok, its a problem when you promise free updates but you need to sell DLCs to keep your development running.

Take a look at the Kerbalizer, yes its free, but there is also a PRO version with more functions and noone complains

about that.

My opinion is, that they promised free updates, but within a defined frame.

Travel to the mun, or planets = promised! / Other star systems = promised???

Its the same with the resource/mining system. Oxygen, water, .... adding this i an update,

but what is with a whole mining or resource gathering system?

And what is with benefits for people that pay for DLCs, that don´t break the promise of free updates?

Like offering DLCs, that became free after a few weeks. You can buy it to get it now, or wait a few weeks

and get it for free.

Or updates that offers benefits but have no influence the core gameplay, like female kerbals, or a Anaglyph

setting (or just a Camera that can make Anaglyph Screenshots) ....

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Warscribe

Warscribe

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The problem is that most DLC is designed to sell stuff that couldve been in the game from the start or bought achievements for perfectionist (like Space Marine, that says in the game that there is an energy sword available, but only thrugh DLC, and it is purely cosmetic). There has also been the Bioware-Day 1-DLC fiasco, that fixed the ending post release. DLC should be nowadays handled like Expansion Packs, imho.

When we bought KSP, we got it much cheaper than i think the final version would be ( i seriously think the finished product would get in on around 60 bucks, with around 70% of the planned features from that list:http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Planned_features), because we are also kind of alpha and later, beta testers. Now DLC for KSP should, imho, be more like expansion packs. Like: More solar systems/mineable ore, and of course according parts for long distance travel. I'd gladly pay for that. DLC should not be that one rocket with 3000kN and an Isp of 8000.

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iDan122

iDan122

Posted
Posted
Hi.

A fews days ago, i´ve found this the "Official Statement on Expansions, DLC and the future of KSP"

Thread on reddit (http://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/1c5zmi/official_statement_on_expansions_dlc_and_the/).

On one hand, i understand the users that wan´t updates for free, cause Squad promised them they´ll get them for free when

buying the alpha. On the other hand, i´am a gamer since many years and i´ve seen a lot games coming and going.

Many games started, grown up and then they reached a point when they begin to die, cause the development costs stay high

while the number of sold copies is rapidly droping.

For me, KSP is the game that is what i (an many others) dreamed of as i was a kid with an 33MHz Intel DX-386 PC, playing games

like "Stunt Island" (what should get a reboot sometimes). Building your own rockets, spaceplanes and rovers, launch them to muns

and planets, where you´r Austronaut can leave the vehicle and walk over the surface at the whole planet - OMG how cool is that.

Yes, i understand the kids that had to buy the game with their spending money and this people that spend less time on this game.

But i think this game has a big potential and it is far away from beeing finished yet.

And beeing honest, where should squad draw the line between the things that are initial content and additional content?

Was a resource mining system promised from the beginning?

Million people buy the DLCs for games like XXX, where you get a weopon that is allready in the game, just with another colorsheme

for only 5 USD - what is nessesary for the software companie to survive, caue they only made 1 billion USD profit with this game.

But squad is evil, cause they want to offer additional content as DLC, that never was promised to be included with the alpha?

Really, I WANT TO PAY MORE, cause i wan´t this unique game beeing developed for the next years.

And i hope that they will find some things that can be sold as DLC, to get enough money to keep the progression of development going on.

You want to pay for an alpha where ALL further updates are included and you can wait a year for the smalles progression, bugfix or

new game content as soon as it reaches the final sales version? - Then you should try to get an "famous Block based game" Alpha key.

thx, Astronox

PS:

I´ve made a list of game that i bought the last 3 years thats disappointed me, how much i paid for them

and how long i played them:

Spore + creature DLC = gameplay is silly, designing creatues only affects their look = bye bye 30 USD / 10h

LA Noire = can´t play, a bug causes the character to keep running all the time = burned 23 USD / 0,2h

Mafia II = Bought as special bundle with DLCs, played it through = big disappointment, wasted about 30 USD / 15h

Take on Helicopters = Low performance, the "cyclic" rotor controls are wrong done, unplayable = 50 USD / 3h

IL2 - Cliffs of Dover = Runs with a few FPS on higend PC - bugged like hell = 60 USD / 2h

Borderlands I = Stupid shooter with stupid KI and dead world, ridicoules end = thrown away 24 USD / 12h

I´am alive = Bought it, played it one hour, deleted this fail = dumped 14 USD / 1h

From Dust = Nice game, but short and not what was promised = 10 USD / 9h

Red Orchestra II = Nothing like promised, reduced to a COD like shooter, bought the special edition = wasted 45 USD / 50h

Cities XL = Boring gameplay, runs slow on a PC with 6 Core CPU = 20 USD / 3h

PT Boats = Crashes a few minutes after the first mission starts = 9 USD / 1h

Metro 2033 = Boring, more sequences then game to play = 30 USD / 2h

World in Conflict = Plain gameplay, too much trial and error = 15 USD / 4h

...... and many others .....

And then look at KSP:

KSP (0.18) = fun as hell even at this early stage = 22 USD / 150h till now

(and at this point i didn´t get an orbital station, mun station, SSTO, Spaceplane .....)

Its one of only a few games that i played longer then some hours and that gets on the same List with games like

"Splinter Cell", "Bioshock", "Dangerous Waters", or "Alan Wake", which are the only games i own and played till the

end cause they didn´t suck like the most games of today.

Dude looks like you have never been to school because 0,2 hours is NOT 20 min, it's 1/5 of an hour, which is 60 min, so 60:5=12 min=0,2 hours This is probably why you can't get anything into orbit XD

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Spartwo

Spartwo

Posted
Posted

I actually started to class addons into 3 groups

1expansions: that add gameplay,storyline or anything along the lines of adding more replay value to the game eg.minecraft updates,tyranny of king Washington(these are the ones worth getting)

2DLC:that add new weapon skins or something else that doesn't affect core gameplay eg,sim city,forza horizon(in part)

3bug fixes:by which I mean shipping bugfixes in the same package as DLC eg:most EA things(these are the ones that are pure bull****)

IN squads dev stream the addons were given off as the first example which I would pay for.

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cardgame

cardgame

Posted
Posted
If Squad did do DLC with KSP, what would they make as DLC?

I personally think that they would make heaps of new items and bundle that. I can already think of new item bundles (5m EVERYTHING, loads of more probe related stuff etc.).

Before speculating, you can actually look this stuff up, you know.

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OrbitusII

OrbitusII

Posted
Posted

What Squad is planning to do with expansions/DLC is to finish the game, make another great game, and then come back with additional, but unnecessary content to playing the game, so things that aren't necessarily space-related, like submarines, alien life on Laythe or other planets, etc. Resources and everything that Squad has planned will be implemented by the time of KSP 1.0.0's release.

As for paying for these and the crap that people have been giving Squad about it, I say the veterans need to deal with it. We are no different from the people who are buying KSP now except that we payed less, so if anything we should pay more (I do hope we don't, however). You may not agree, but this is how I feel about the payment situation. :)

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magnemoe

magnemoe

Posted
Posted
Well, this is still a touchy subject at the moment to be honest, but I'm sure Squad would be heartened by your post, it's just that there was wording that said all updates would be free, that makes it kinda hard to then sell an expansion pack later.

The moderation team is all for open discussion on KSP related stuff (no really!) but we will be watching this thread for arguments and flaming, so keep it civil please :)

Main problem with an DLC of KSP is that the game is during development so we do not know the part who will be included in the final game.

The game also don't have an main quest or story. It could be tempting to cut parts of the game to release it faster and then get more money from DLC.

I have no issues with well done DLC like the ones for Fallout.

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Astronox

Astronox

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Dude looks like you have never been to school because 0,2 hours is NOT 20 min, it's 1/5 of an hour, which is 60 min, so 60:5=12 min=0,2 hours This is probably why you can't get anything into orbit XD

Mister, pls take a second look at my post and you´ll see that i didn´t wrote there that 0,2h are 20min.

LA Noire = can´t play, a bug causes the character to keep running all the time = burned 23 USD / 0,2h

As you see, i only wrote "0,2h", what you correctly calculated, are "12 minutes" - and thats round about the time i "tried" to

play this game. :cool:

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  • 2 weeks later...
Gort

Gort

Posted
Posted (edited)
Hi ... For me, KSP is the game that is what i (an many others) dreamed of as i was a kid with an 33MHz Intel DX-386 PC, playing games

like "Stunt Island" (what should get a reboot sometimes) ...

Agree, agree, agree with OP. I'll gladly pay for DLC's for such a great game as KSP. Also, "Stunt Island" (on my DX-386 as well) started my sim cravings, such a great game for its day.

See link below (left bookcase, 3rd shelf down, 6th game in from left "Stunt Island"):

http://www.leadmeister.byethost32.com/rig.htm

Gort: a.k.a. LeadMeister, my FPS gaming alter ego (10+ years)

Edited by Gort
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P.Funk

P.Funk

Posted
Posted (edited)
Main problem with an DLC of KSP is that the game is during development so we do not know the part who will be included in the final game.

This is why people who pre-order games during ALPHA should really kind of... suck it up if it doesn't work out.

Buying early leads to problems of expectation. Buying post release leads... well, to informed decisions with all known variables.

There is merit to the DLC conversation, but most of it is in this person's opinion the result of people having a hissy over something they don't fully understand.

Edited by P.Funk
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