SESRV: Smallest Eve Sample Return Vehicle

[SunJumper]

This challenge is to get the smallest unmanned vehicle, by mass, (or manned if you wish), to land at Eve, but in the ocean, then take off, and return to Kerbin.

Rules:

• All stock parts are allowed. Additionally, parts from the KW Rocketry pack are allowed, as are parts from the NovaPunch pack, and the balloon mod.
  
• Mechjeb is allowed.
  
• The craft must have a part that looks like it can take a sample from the ocean. Since no such part actually exists, just use an intake/structural part/etc, and pretend that it does.
  
• If the craft is manned, it must involve a pod.
  
• Pretend that the sample magically flows from the sample-taker to the probe body.
  
• Only the probe body must land on Kerbin intact; on land. Preferably at KSC. If it lands dead, but intact and on land, that is fine.
  

Leaderboard:

This challenge is a sequel to the older SEAV thread, which was lost in the Purge. If your entry for that can be modified such that it can complete this challenge, it is perfectly acceptable to do so.

Edited April 27, 2013 by SunJumper

[Temstar]

I think the trick to this will be a rover/mobile launch pad. Land near an ocean, drive into the water, take the sample then drive uphill to a 6km+ mountain top for the launch back home.

[whatisthisidonteven]

in the ocean? I could probably do it if I only had to land near the ocean and then take a kerbonaut out to the ocean to take a sample, but landing in the ocean is a big challenge

[Francesco]

while we're discussing this, where's this 6km mountain top?

the highest place on Eve I've visited so far is the ~5km weird peak that stands out in the middle of a lowland.

edit: a cool way to "pretend to take a sample" is by having an antenna pointing to the ground, like this:

Edited April 22, 2013 by Francesco

[Eric S]

Given the changes between this and the SEAV challenge, it sounds like you're optimizing it for balloon descent/ascent. Not only does that knock off far more delta-V than the mountain top launches, it also makes landing in the ocean and getting back out of the ocean trivial, since balloons make great uprighting mechanisms, especially in that repurposed soup that Eve uses as an atmosphere.

Other questions: Since we're returning to Kerbin in this challenge, unlike the previous one, at what point do we measure the mass of the craft? I'm mostly wondering about leaving a return stage in Eve orbit so that I don't have to lift it from Eve, which I'm assuming would be counted, but it feels like it's opening things up to more Kerbal solutions that might not necessarily fit into standard accounting. It might not be worth the need to dock to save lifting about 1.5K delta-V though.

Oddly enough, my SEAV entry (at about 34 tons if I remember correctly) could have returned to Kerbin given it's leftover fuel (assuming a near-perfect transfer, that is), and since it used a balloon descent/ascent, could have easily landed in the ocean for a sample. I may still have that .craft file somewhere.

[lump]

Quite a while back i remember some guy, on a challenge similar to this. he built possible the smallest eve return vehicle I've ever seen, it used asparagus staging and the long thin tanks, it could only launch on the peaks of eve but it wouldn't take much to add more fuel, i and indeed the rest of the challenge were amazed at how small it was compared to the monsters that other people were using.

[SunJumper]

Given the changes between this and the SEAV challenge, it sounds like you're optimizing it for balloon descent/ascent. Not only does that knock off far more delta-V than the mountain top launches, it also makes landing in the ocean and getting back out of the ocean trivial, since balloons make great uprighting mechanisms, especially in that repurposed soup that Eve uses as an atmosphere.

Other questions: Since we're returning to Kerbin in this challenge, unlike the previous one, at what point do we measure the mass of the craft? I'm mostly wondering about leaving a return stage in Eve orbit so that I don't have to lift it from Eve, which I'm assuming would be counted, but it feels like it's opening things up to more Kerbal solutions that might not necessarily fit into standard accounting. It might not be worth the need to dock to save lifting about 1.5K delta-V though.

Oddly enough, my SEAV entry (at about 34 tons if I remember correctly) could have returned to Kerbin given it's leftover fuel (assuming a near-perfect transfer, that is), and since it used a balloon descent/ascent, could have easily landed in the ocean for a sample. I may still have that .craft file somewhere.

Measure mass from Kerbin launch. Also, as mentioned above, you may undock and redock to parts of your own craft, but not any other craft.

[Giggleplex777]

edit: a cool way to "pretend to take a sample" is by having an antenna pointing to the ground, like this:

The yellow ladder is way better.

[Istas]

in the ocean? I could probably do it if I only had to land near the ocean and then take a kerbonaut out to the ocean to take a sample, but landing in the ocean is a big challenge

It's really not that much harder than landing on land; potentially easier even, since you don't need to worry about slope, or keeping landing legs even. Just takes a bit extra dV to ease yourself into the water so parts don't go poof, and needs to be a somewhat wide craft.

SunJumper: When you say all parts, do you mean all stock parts? Or are mod pack parts included? If they are, can you list separate scores for using stock parts (excepting informational/piloting things like Mechjeb and Protractor)

[SunJumper]

I've updated the OP to state the allowed mod packs; as the old SEAV challenge allowed mods too. There will be no score loss, I'll only state which mods were used for each entry.

[Climberfx]

11000 to 13000 m/s of dV to return from Eve, i don't see any vehicle capable yet...

[SunJumper]

11000 to 13000 m/s of dV to return from Eve, i don't see any vehicle capable yet...

Actually, I've seen many craft deliver manned pods to Kerbin from Eve. I'm only asking for a probe core, which is only 40kg.

[Climberfx]

Show me one, the prettier please.

I wanna learn.

[tavert]

You'll probably have to go to Google cache of Smallest Eve Ascent Vehicle challenge unfortunately.

[Climberfx]

Lost in translation? (joke for the forum problem)

I prefer to have a reference from a guy here that now the direct location on the forum in the present state.

I believe that Sunjumper must know some.

[tavert]

They're not on the forum in the present state. And few if any in that challenge were going from sea level. Scroll down in the below link to GeorgeG's entry with Kerbals on a ladder for I think the smallest rocket that used stock engines before the forum died. It used the mountaintop and had 7760 m/s total atmospheric delta-V, 9155 m/s total vacuum.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ELfwbonTSKcJ:forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/35750-Smallest-Eve-Ascent-Vehicle-(SEAV)%3Fp%3D542325+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Edit: Found one exception of Eve ascent vehicles that have been reposted: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/26296-Exiting-Eve-pic-heavy

Looked like he wasn't going specifically for the challenge, so he used a mountain only at 4 km altitude.

Here are a few that survive on imgur: http://i.imgur.com/oNnKy.jpg

http://imgur.com/a/ab3ly/#0

Edited April 27, 2013 by tavert

[Climberfx]

Thanks Tavert.

But i mean, without the cockpit, i don't like, but he did it!

some day i put a try on mine own...

With cockpit.

Edited April 27, 2013 by Climberfx

[soranno]

I`ve convinced myself that the best way of getting from eve sea level to orbit is to do it not with one craft, but with two. One landed on a high point and the other at sea level. The one craft ascends to the plateau where the second is waiting. Probably the first would have to be a winged craft capable of powered flight in the atmosphere of eve.

This assumes naturally, that you`re not simply in a position to drive up to the waiting launch vehicle on the higher plateau.

I`m not familiar with the history so far of winged flight on eve, hopefully it hasn`t all been lost in the calamity. I`ll have to go look some up.

[SunJumper]

The rules state that you can only use one launch. If you wish to leave fuel in Eve orbit, that is fine, so long as it is sent up there in the same launch as your probe.

[Temstar]

Why not use a rover to drive to the rocket waiting on the plateau. That's what I planned to do for my manned Eve landing.

I tested manned rovers on Eve's surface and they work perfectly fine. This 8x8 rover can climb pretty much any incline on Eve.

Even if the condition is one launch, this is a robotic mission so it will be pretty easy to fit a small unmanned rover on the actual ascending rocket. Once it lands on the hill the rover get dropped off, drive to the ocean, get a sample, drive back to the rocket and the rocket takes the sample offworld.

[SunJumper]

Why not use a rover to drive to the rocket waiting on the plateau. That's what I planned to do for my manned Eve landing.

I tested manned rovers on Eve's surface and they work perfectly fine. This 8x8 rover can climb pretty much any incline on Eve.

-picsnip-

Even if the condition is one launch, this is a robotic mission so it will be pretty easy to fit a small unmanned rover on the actual ascending rocket. Once it lands on the hill the rover get dropped off, drive to the ocean, get a sample, drive back to the rocket and the rocket takes the sample offworld.

So long as you get a sample of eve ocean back to Kerbin, the rover method is fine. It might even make for a smaller ascent.

If you can brave the day-long burn time, a mechjeb+wing assisted Ion launch may be superior.

[saik0]

while we're discussing this, where's this 6km mountain top?

the highest place on Eve I've visited so far is the ~5km weird peak that stands out in the middle of a lowland.

edit: a cool way to "pretend to take a sample" is by having an antenna pointing to the ground, like this:

-11.846, -1.904 is 6450m, the highest point I know of.

[SunJumper]

-11.846, -1.904 is 6450m, the highest point I know of.

How far is it from the oceans?

[tavert]

So I built something that weighs 63 tons at Kerbin liftoff. 6 jets for getting things into orbit, 2 LV-N's with enough fuel for the Eve transfer, then 3 aerospikes, 2 SRB's, and a little probe final stage to get back off Eve. Wasn't sure if it had enough delta-V to do the ascent from sea level or have enough left over to return to Kerbin, but I sent it off to Eve for a test anyway. When I got there I found having aerospikes and 2 full SRB's meant lots of tumbling during re-entry, standard parachutes broke off at deployment (with no hope of having the engines pointing the right way). I went in and hacked the quicksave to replace them with drogues to see if that made a difference, it did mean a lot less tumbling, but then I realized that 3 aerospikes gave a TWR less than 1 at the surface of Eve (my landing mass was about 38 tons), so there was no hope of landing safely on water (or whatever liquid Eve's oceans are made of). I think I'll go back to the drawing board, this time replacing the solids with something I can use to help with landing. I might replace aerospikes with T30's to avoid the drag tumbling, I'll have to play around some more.

[Climberfx]

They say Eve ocean is made of liquid fuel. But i don't think so, if it was liquid fuel, Eve would have burn a long time ago, near like this to the sun...