TAC Fuel Balancer-DISCONTINUED

[ArcFurnace]

I like to delete old mod folders when installing new versions to avoid problems. Having multiple mods from one author in a single directory can cause confusion as to which folder belongs to which mod. One top-level directory under GameData per mod makes it easy to delete the old version and add the new version, so I approve of this change.

[Galane]

One more function that would be most helpful is Balance And Transfer Out (BATO).

Whyfor? Because if you have more than two tanks partially empty and you want them to be both Balanced AND to Transfer Out, it can't (easily) be done. Select one tank to transfer out, then another one to transfer out. The second (third, fourth etc) one lags behind and when the other tanks fill the ones set to transfer out are all unevenly filled.

They can be set to Balance and will even out, but then they are not *transferring out* to keep other tanks full.

There is a way to work around this but it's a bit tedious to setup and not useful in an emergency situation.

1. Move fuel into the two or more tanks you want to transfer out evenly. They must be 100% filled for this to work.

2. Lock ALL tanks that are not completely full.

3. Set the two or more tanks you want evenly transferring out to transfer out.

4. Unlock all locked tanks and the tanks you want evenly pumping out will do so until all non-full and unlocked tanks are filled.

A BATO function would be much easier.

I don't see a need for a Balance And Transfer In (BATI) function because transferring in will keep the tank 100% full until there's no more left in all other tanks that are currently not set to transfer in.

Oh just thought of a use for BATI where you have various tanks of differing volumes that you want transferring in AND to run out at the same time. Not a setup that comes naturally to mind like a balanced transfer out since without a transfer mod capable of BATI there's no reason to build a ship that would benefit from the feature.

[TaranisElsu]

One more function that would be most helpful is Balance And Transfer Out (BATO).

Whyfor? Because if you have more than two tanks partially empty and you want them to be both Balanced AND to Transfer Out, it can't (easily) be done. Select one tank to transfer out, then another one to transfer out. The second (third, fourth etc) one lags behind and when the other tanks fill the ones set to transfer out are all unevenly filled.

They can be set to Balance and will even out, but then they are not *transferring out* to keep other tanks full.

There is a way to work around this but it's a bit tedious to setup and not useful in an emergency situation.

1. Move fuel into the two or more tanks you want to transfer out evenly. They must be 100% filled for this to work.

2. Lock ALL tanks that are not completely full.

3. Set the two or more tanks you want evenly transferring out to transfer out.

4. Unlock all locked tanks and the tanks you want evenly pumping out will do so until all non-full and unlocked tanks are filled.

A BATO function would be much easier.

I don't see a need for a Balance And Transfer In (BATI) function because transferring in will keep the tank 100% full until there's no more left in all other tanks that are currently not set to transfer in.

Oh just thought of a use for BATI where you have various tanks of differing volumes that you want transferring in AND to run out at the same time. Not a setup that comes naturally to mind like a balanced transfer out since without a transfer mod capable of BATI there's no reason to build a ship that would benefit from the feature.

Have you tried the "Balance In's" and "Balance Out's" options in the settings window?

[syteless]

Warning: make sure that you completely uninstall any previous versions. I moved everything from KSP/GameData/ThunderAerospace/TacFuelBalancer to just KSP/GameData/TacFuelBalancer.

So should I just ignore the warning that is telling me that to put TacFuelBalancer in gamedata/thunderaerospace/tacfuelbalancer? Or is this a trick to make me pay attention?

Disregard, I'm a silly goose. an older version snuck its way into my 0.25 downloads group.

Edited October 12, 2014 by syteless
I'm a silly goose

[Fr@nk]

I'll need a little more info on your resize issue. Would you upload a complete log file (see my signature)? Are any other Mac users having a problem with that?

Yes, I also cannot resize this window. But I scrolled all to the right and the window keeps this position.

I will look at making the list of resources easier to deal with, but the whole reason that I moved all the control buttons into a drop down was to save screen real estate. You don't seem to have an issue with that -- how big is your screen?!?

my screen is "only" 1440x900 But I'd also like so see a better handling. Fuelbalancing for me is an act of "getting-work-done" after a (hopefully successful) misson, for example when returning a mun explorer to my Orbiter. I dock on to the mothership and would like to refuel my lander. This work could be done "fullscreen" (means in a quite big window).

(and when programmed and fuel-balancing-on-its-own, we can set the next maneuver point and head to new horizons)

I am afraid that is one of those things where I cannot make everyone happy. I do plan to allow interacting by right-clicking the parts themselves instead of being required to use the window.

Integrated in the right-click on a fuel tank, this yellow "context-menu" thing? That would be really nice!

Consider coloring the different tanks on a huge mothership by their status ("In" tanks highlight in green, "Out" tanks in orange, "balancing" tanks in blue)

instead of being required to use the window.

I'd suggest building groups, too. Is already mentioned? This would clean up the list alot !

My groups would be "mothership main tanks", "mothership additional tanks", "mun lander", "space hopper".

Returning from Mun (other some other object), i'd like to fill up every tank in the lander, balancing out from my "mothership additional tanks", not touching the "mothership main tanks".

For MonoProp AND Oxydizer AND LiquidFuel. But by decluttering the list of tanks somehow, the current way to show several groups at once and clicking all three seperately, would be ok.

Sometimes I send fuel supplies, several tanks of fuel attached to a little "traktor" Tank+Engine+lots-of-RCS. This group "fuelsupply" flies to the mothership and dumps into "mainship main tanks", which by their own are in "balancing (within group)" mode. Without touching the "traktor" tank, to be able to fly back to kerbin and recycle this traktor.

With the suggested screenshots from Climberfx (nice work. I like the way the status can be seen instantly), I'm not really sure how to organize the groups. Within each type of ressource? Or beyond ressource types?

Looking at the suggestion from Climberfx, I could want to replace the headings of the ressource types with the groups. I could select "mothership additional tanks" and "lander". Within each group I get the different ressource types listed, which should in general have the same status. (consider optical feedback to check this). We would need additional group actions, "Balance All" could get partners like "Hil","Stp","In", which work balanced over the group (to keep the COG in balance, or - with highlight - check the groups)...

... just my 0.02 cents... I don't know if this would be programmable. I just wish a more-gui-driven approach, I don't care how the tanks are named and what capacity they have. together they are "the lander", only 23,5% ressources left... it needs to be filled up.

But anyway: Thanks for this already really useful tool ! Keep on

Fr@nk

[somnambulist]

Taranis -

I'm getting some pretty severe log spam with the latest version. Full logs are here. It's the same message repeated every few tenths of a second

[LOG 22:28:11.833] Tac.FuelBalanceController[FFF5D876][152.14]: Rebuilding resource lists.
[LOG 22:28:11.876] Tac.FuelBalanceController[FFF5D876][152.18]: Rebuilding resource lists.
[LOG 22:28:12.322] Tac.FuelBalanceController[FFF5D876][152.64]: Rebuilding resource lists.
[LOG 22:28:12.363] Tac.FuelBalanceController[FFF5D876][152.68]: Rebuilding resource lists.
[LOG 22:28:12.659] Tac.FuelBalanceController[FFF5D876][152.98]: Rebuilding resource lists.
[LOG 22:28:12.694] Tac.FuelBalanceController[FFF5D876][153.00]: Rebuilding resource lists.
[LOG 22:28:12.769] Tac.FuelBalanceController[FFF5D876][153.08]: Rebuilding resource lists.
[LOG 22:28:12.846] Tac.FuelBalanceController[FFF5D876][153.16]: Rebuilding resource lists.
[LOG 22:28:12.884] Tac.FuelBalanceController[FFF5D876][153.20]: Rebuilding resource lists.
[LOG 22:28:12.922] Tac.FuelBalanceController[FFF5D876][153.24]: Rebuilding resource lists.
[LOG 22:28:13.170] Tac.FuelBalanceController[FFF5D876][153.48]: Rebuilding resource lists.
[LOG 22:28:13.210] Tac.FuelBalanceController[FFF5D876][153.52]: Rebuilding resource lists.
[LOG 22:28:13.251] Tac.FuelBalanceController[FFF5D876][153.56]: Rebuilding resource lists.

[SmiteZero]

nm. Not the mod I thought this was.

Edited October 13, 2014 by SmiteZero

[TaranisElsu]

Taranis -

I'm getting some pretty severe log spam with the latest version. Full logs are here. It's the same message repeated every few tenths of a second

[LOG 22:28:11.833] Tac.FuelBalanceController[FFF5D876][152.14]: Rebuilding resource lists.
[LOG 22:28:11.876] Tac.FuelBalanceController[FFF5D876][152.18]: Rebuilding resource lists.
[LOG 22:28:12.322] Tac.FuelBalanceController[FFF5D876][152.64]: Rebuilding resource lists.
[LOG 22:28:12.363] Tac.FuelBalanceController[FFF5D876][152.68]: Rebuilding resource lists.
[LOG 22:28:12.659] Tac.FuelBalanceController[FFF5D876][152.98]: Rebuilding resource lists.
[LOG 22:28:12.694] Tac.FuelBalanceController[FFF5D876][153.00]: Rebuilding resource lists.
[LOG 22:28:12.769] Tac.FuelBalanceController[FFF5D876][153.08]: Rebuilding resource lists.
[LOG 22:28:12.846] Tac.FuelBalanceController[FFF5D876][153.16]: Rebuilding resource lists.
[LOG 22:28:12.884] Tac.FuelBalanceController[FFF5D876][153.20]: Rebuilding resource lists.
[LOG 22:28:12.922] Tac.FuelBalanceController[FFF5D876][153.24]: Rebuilding resource lists.
[LOG 22:28:13.170] Tac.FuelBalanceController[FFF5D876][153.48]: Rebuilding resource lists.
[LOG 22:28:13.210] Tac.FuelBalanceController[FFF5D876][153.52]: Rebuilding resource lists.
[LOG 22:28:13.251] Tac.FuelBalanceController[FFF5D876][153.56]: Rebuilding resource lists.

Thank you for the log file!

Would you describe what you were doing when it was spamming? Were you driving a rover? Did it stop if you stopped the rover? Does it happen with a different craft? Are you reporting it because it had a noticeable effect on the frame rate (caused lag)?

Thank you for the additional data. That is something that I need to fix. The game seems to be changing the vessel's "situation" (i.e. landed, flying, sub_orbital, etc) a lot more frequently than I expect.

[Fr@nk]

another question, just by the way...

What is "Drop" meant for?

why dismissing valuable fuel out in space?

from my own experience I just once had the need for this, trying to carry big fueltanks into orbit.

the connections beneath were too weak to support 36 tons of fuel,

I emptied the tank to 4 tons:

and I had the docking ports left for my lander and space cruiser, attached on my mothership.

Fr@nk

[fluidlogic]

Problem...

I'm using OKS/MKS, TAC LS, and TAC FB... One of my OKS modules ran out of spare parts, and I can't transfer any in from another module. Is TAC FB compatible with the resources from OKS/MKS? Or should I go harass RoverDude instead?

[somnambulist]

Would you describe what you were doing when it was spamming? Were you driving a rover? Did it stop if you stopped the rover? Does it happen with a different craft? Are you reporting it because it had a noticeable effect on the frame rate (caused lag)?

No problems with the logs -- it should be second nature for anyone reporting a problem. "I have a problem, here is all the information I can give you."

You are correct -- it was a rover roving on Kerbin under the power of stock solar panels. The problem did seem to stop when the rover was stopped; based on your question I'm guessing that the game was reporting a situation change on every single bump ('flying') causing TAC FB to constantly update. The spam did cause noticeable lag (60+ FPS down to 20 FPS on a craft with 20 or so parts). I also hung the game but that might be completely unrelated to TAC FB. (I'll see if I can recreate the crash with a stock-only install.)

[KoolBreeze420]

Is there an archive for tac fuel I have mods that are not compatible with 025 yet and so still going to play 0.24 until they are updated but can't find tac fuel .24 for download anywhere

[Starman4308]

another question, just by the way...

What is "Drop" meant for?

why dismissing valuable fuel out in space?

There are some cases where it's useful: for example, if you forgot to remove the monopropellant from your command pod (and had no RCS), if you need to re-balance your spaceplane a bit, etc.

[somnambulist]

Is there an archive for tac fuel I have mods that are not compatible with 025 yet and so still going to play 0.24 until they are updated but can't find tac fuel .24 for download anywhere

https://github.com/taraniselsu/TacFuelBalancer/releases

[Tabris]

Problem...

I'm using OKS/MKS, TAC LS, and TAC FB... One of my OKS modules ran out of spare parts, and I can't transfer any in from another module. Is TAC FB compatible with the resources from OKS/MKS? Or should I go harass RoverDude instead?

spare parts and a few other resources were changed to "non-pumpable" in the latest MKS/OKS release.

[John FX]

So I go to the OP, see a link that says `version x.xx.xx is available`, click the link and just get a post that says the same with no download link.

I`ll have another look at the OP but I`d expect a link on the OP that says `version x.xx.xx is available` to take me somewhere I could download it...

Can I suggest a download link where you post about new releases please if that is where the link in the OP leads?

Other than that, only updating to use the new pork chop planner. Looks very nice.

[TaranisElsu]

So I go to the OP, see a link that says `version x.xx.xx is available`, click the link and just get a post that says the same with no download link.

I`ll have another look at the OP but I`d expect a link on the OP that says `version x.xx.xx is available` to take me somewhere I could download it...

Can I suggest a download link where you post about new releases please if that is where the link in the OP leads?

You are right that I did not add a download link in the release announcement post, but there is a download link in the OP (a little farther down the page). Is that good enough?

Other than that, only updating to use the new pork chop planner. Looks very nice.

Are you on the wrong thread?

[Tahib]

Kraken! Bugreport.

Hi, i just installed Tac Fuel Balancer, because it's quite annoying to balance rcs between multiple tanks manually. I have had Tac Fuel before, at my last play-through with 0.23.5. I got a lot of Kraken back then, never knew why. I did not get a single Kraken in 0.25 before today.

First run with Tac Fuel, Kraken again! It is (and always was) the Hell Kraken with crash. I got the Kraken when i tried to load an unmanned vessel in Kerbol Orbit. If you need more, aka vessel / save / etc, just tell me. I did a copy of the whole ksp folder.

Windows 64Bit (16 GB Ram), KSP 0.25 32Bit, Tac Fuel Balancer 2.4.1.5, downloaded directly through your alternate download github link.

Logfile Download: output_log-kraken-tacFuel.zip

List of installed addons: xScience!, Toolbar, AntennaRange incl. ToadicusTools, blizzy Achievements, Diazo Landingheight + RCSLandAid, dmagic Orbital Science, EditorExtensions, KSP-AVC, Asmi's ECLSS Revived, Mechjeb 2 + allvessels, ScanSat, Stationscience, TacFuelBalancer, KerbalAlarmClock, Universal Storage Core + ECLSS incl. USITools/Converter

[TaranisElsu]

Kraken! Bugreport.

Hi, i just installed Tac Fuel Balancer, because it's quite annoying to balance rcs between multiple tanks manually. I have had Tac Fuel before, at my last play-through with 0.23.5. I got a lot of Kraken back then, never knew why. I did not get a single Kraken in 0.25 before today.

First run with Tac Fuel, Kraken again! It is (and always was) the Hell Kraken with crash. I got the Kraken when i tried to load an unmanned vessel in Kerbol Orbit. If you need more, aka vessel / save / etc, just tell me. I did a copy of the whole ksp folder.

Windows 64Bit (16 GB Ram), KSP 0.25 32Bit, Tac Fuel Balancer 2.4.1.5, downloaded directly through your alternate download github link.

Logfile Download: output_log-kraken-tacFuel.zip

List of installed addons: xScience!, Toolbar, AntennaRange incl. ToadicusTools, blizzy Achievements, Diazo Landingheight + RCSLandAid, dmagic Orbital Science, EditorExtensions, KSP-AVC, Asmi's ECLSS Revived, Mechjeb 2 + allvessels, ScanSat, Stationscience, TacFuelBalancer, KerbalAlarmClock, Universal Storage Core + ECLSS incl. USITools/Converter

Thanks for a log file!

How repeatable is the crash? I do not see any errors that are attributable to TACFB, but I do see a lot of errors from other mods, mainly Toolbar and MechJeb and Achievements. Try temporarily removing them and see what changes. Also, make sure that all of your mods are up-to-date.

Make sure that you back up your save file first.

[Tahib]

The Kraken is not easily repeatable. Most Addons are up-to-date to my knowledge, except Achievements (no .25 version out there yet). Just checked and i have Toolbar 1.7.6 (1.7.7 out), Mechjeb 2.4.0 (ok).

[John FX]

Are you on the wrong thread?

I think so. Sometimes I open many many threads to see if there has been news or updates. I confused KAC with TAC fuel balancer...

My problem was that the first link on the OP (where it says Version 2.4.1 is now available!) takes you to the release announcement post if you click it and it can be very confusing until you realise there is another link lower down the page.

[Coyote_ar]

1st of all, thanks for your work, your mod makes life a lot easier

2nd in case you are taking suggestions. would it be possible for your fuel balancer to try to distribute the fuel load so that it tries to balance the center of mass with the thrust vector?

im having a hard time with my VTOL ships that rotate the engines, to keep em balanced on both modes. most mods out there that balance to compensate, do it by reducing thrust on some of the engines. this balances the ship, but at the expense of reduced thrust which hampers the TWR. if you could use the fuel as ballast, then 100% output would be possible in order to have the best TWR possible with those engines.

i appologize if what im asking here is extremely complicated to implement, im 200% ignorant on all that programming magic you guys do. anyhow, thanks for your work.

[Furious1964]

What tech is required for this to show up? Can seem to find it anywhere on the toolbar.

[Master Tao]

No tech required. There are no parts. ATM, it will either show up as a standalone button, or you can add it to blizzy's toolbar.

@TaranisElsu:

Thought I should mention this issue was resolved by 0.25.

[Furious1964]

No tech required. There are no parts. ATM, it will either show up as a standalone button, or you can add it to blizzy's toolbar.

@TaranisElsu:

Thought I should mention this issue was resolved by 0.25.

Isn't showing up for me. Can this be used while running the game in OpenGL Mode? I have to use that because X64 is borked and I haven't installed Linux on a flash drive yet.