ITT: We attempt to formalize our mission plans.

[M5000]

Alright, so I think I'm not alone when I say that I spend a lot of time thinking about what missions I want to do, and building/testing for them, and actually less time /doing/ them. I think there should be a thread where we do just that. So here. Let's talk about all the things we want to do/have done in attempts to formalize our missions. I'm not saying anyone is actually going to stick to what they post here, but I think it'll be interesting to see how people want to progress through the game. Maybe you have more scattered missions in these alpha versions, and want a more structured mission plan when 1.0 hits, I don't know, but I think it would be fun to design a basic outline for what you hope to accomplish, in an ideal world. So, I'll go to give you all ideas as to what I'm talking about, in chronological order.

-Design a craft that can perform a sub-orbital flight.

-Design a craft that can place a satellite in some type of orbit.

-Design a craft that can place a Kerbal into sub-orbital trajectory and return the Kerbal safely.

-Design a craft that can place a Kerbal into an orbit and land the Kerbal safely back on Kerbin.

-Design a reliable launch vehicle that can be quickly built and launched for repeatable results of similar missions.

-Design a reliable launch vehicle that can be quickly built and launched for repeatable manned missions.

-Perform an orbital docking.

-Perform an orbital rendezvous.

-Send an unmanned probe into orbit of one of the local moons.

-Send an unmanned lander onto the surface of one of the local moons.

-Send an unmanned rover onto the surface of one of the local moons.

-Send a manned orbital-only mission to one of the local moons.

-Send a manned surface landing to one of the local moons, returning all Kerbals home safely.

-Construct a set of launch vehicles capable of lofting payloads of varying mass to LKO. Use these basic "skeleton" launch vehicles for all relevant missions on out, making improvements as they are realized.

-Send an unmanned probe on an escape trajectory of Kerbol.

-Send an unmanned probe to every subsystem in the Kerbol system.

-Design and construct an orbital station in LKO.

-Maintain station in LKO.

-Send an Ordan Industries Telescope into high orbit and gaze upon the stars and planets.

-Design a very compact single-launch station outpost with long term self-orbit-keeping ability and place it in Kerbinsychronous orbit.

-Send an unmanned lander to Duna.

-Send a series of unmanned rovers to Duna.

-Send a series of unmanned probes to the Eve system.

-Send an unmanned lander to Eve.

-Design a single-stage-to-orbit craft designed for re-use during crewed missions.

-Design a single-stage-to-orbit spaceplane to cut costs.

-Send an atmospheric probe to Jool.

-Send a manned mission to land on Duna and return safely.

-Begin preliminary intense surface study of Mun and Minmus.

-Construct an orbital Mun station to act as a go-between for frequent Mun surface missions.

-Construct a large fuel depot in LKO.

-Send parallel unmanned missions to Duna to construct an orbital station relatively quickly.

-Send an unmanned rover to Laythe.

-Begin long-term habitation of the Duna station.

-Construct a surface scientific base on the Mun.

-Construct a surface scientific base on Minmus.

-Begin mining/habitation operations of Mun.

-Begin mining/habitation operations of Minmus.

-Send parallel manned and unmanned missions to Duna to construct a scientific surface base, while also changing out the original station crew with new members.

-Send parallel unmanned missions to the whole Jool system to scan for resources.

-Construct a high-capacity LKO habitation station.

-Construct a high-capacity fuel depot in very high Kerbin orbit to act as a refueling station for passing missions.

-Send several more unmanned rovers, landers, and probes to Laythe.

-Send parallel manned and unmanned missions to Laythe to construct an orbital station with a docked single-stage-to-orbit vessel.

-Use the single-stage-to-orbit vehicle to perform a manned descent to the surface of Laythe.

-Take off your space helmets and breathe alien air for the first time in Kerbal history.

-Send an upscaled surface base to Laythe.

-Send parallel missions to Duna to create a mining and habitation base.

-Begin preparations for a Grand Tour of the Kerbol system.

-Send an unmanned probe as close to Kerbol as possible.

-Send parallel unmanned rover missions to Eve.

-Scout Eve for the highest point possible in preparation for a manned landing.

-Send a manned return mission to and from Eve.

-At the highest point on Eve, construct a self-sustaining very large surface colony.

-Perform regular missions to visit the Eve colony.

-Design a non-atmospheric lander with mining capabilities that is able to land and take off from Tylo or Moho, in preparation for the Grand Tour.

-Design a very efficient SSTO to couple on to the Grand Tour vessel in order to use on Laythe and possibly other very low gravity moons.

From there.....? Who knows.. Maybe interstellar if that gets implemented... As you can see I have plans. I've already done half of that in a mismatched order, but I'd really like to follow a structure.

So does anyone else have a wall of text they'd like to share?

[maackey]

I've thought about something similar. Organizing those missions into graphical hierarchies (I don't read big walls of text unless I'm *really* bored) and adding difficulty rankings would be awesome. Categories of achievements would help as well (and be color coded in the mission trees):

- Ship Design (Build a ship that can do so-and-so),

- Orbital Operations (orbital rendezvous, space stations, relay networks),

- Exploration (land on planet X, find anomalies),

- Surface Operations (land rovers next to other landed craft, build bases, etc.).

Also, IMO missions need to have concrete specific goals. Things like: "Begin preliminary intense surface study of Mun and Minmus" are vague and not really helpful for guidance. Also, keeping in mind newbies, "Take off your space helmets and breathe alien air for the first time in Kerbal history" not everyone knows Laythe has breathable air. I don't mind flowery language, but I dislike it when it lacks substance.

spitballing here:

Hierarchy trees would deal with particular payloads and otherwise be similar in mission structure: manned rockets, unmanned rockets, satellites, probes, space planes, rovers, and combos thereof.

so you'd have a tree that starts off with getting a kerbal into orbit, landing the kerbal on the mun, etc. and then you'd have a hierarchy tree that starts with getting a rover into orbit, landing safely on the mun, etc.

/spitballing

So yeah, I think its a great Idea to have a structure for mission plans. I really love the delta-v map someone posted around here a while ago, and if we could have a useful progression of missions be in a similar format that would be fantastic.

[Swifty]

I'm staring to working on this 'problem' too.

The way I see it is:

- Mission Objective

- Payload:

- Mission Critical Equipment (I.e. kethane scanner, kerbal)

- Support equipment ( i.e. solar panels, comms)

- Payload Control System (I.e. 500 delta v probe engines and fuel tanks or lander stuff)

- Stage 1 (I.e. 1000 delta v munar transit vehicle)

- Stage 2 (I.e. 2000 delta v launch stage)

- stage 3 (I.e. 2700 delta v first stage)

So then vehicle design becomes optimised for mission task based upon required mission equipment. It is ALS a good idea to calculate power usage and thus solar panel and battery requirements.

As for missions I'll add them here once I've defined them

[ROFLCopter64bit]

You.. think about this way too much. This reminds me; I need to make a list application to simplify everything.

[Swifty]

You.. think about this way too much. This reminds me; I need to make a list application to simplify everything.

Habit from doing a degree in aerospace. I feel the urge to try and make an optimum design rather than just putting more rockets and fuel.

If I'm going to make a ship that goes to the mun I might as well do it right.

[Richy teh space man]

If I was doing this for the first time, using the knowledge I've gained from doing all these things, then my order of preference would be:

Sub orbital flight

Orbital flight

Stable orbital flight

Manned orbital flight

Satellites in varying Kerbin orbits

Satellites around Mun/Minmus

Manned orbital flight around Mun/Minmus

Landing on Mun/Minmus

Manned landing on Mun/Minmus

Space station around Kerbin, Mun, then Minmus

Exploration of Kerbin/Mun/Minmus

Exploiting their resources with reuseable landers

Satellites to every other body, starting with Duna/Ike, Eve/Gilly, then Moho, looking for resources, anomalies, mapping and atmospheric probes

Sending a larger exploration force to Jool, with satellites that can map and do unpowered landings on it's moons, as well as explore the atmospheres of Laythe and Jool

Manned landings on all landable planets

My solution to getting them there is less in favour of the technical and more of a brute force approach to getting things into orbit and then around other planets, with the more boosters, more fuel, more rockets kind of approach.

[Torham234]

The biggest problem for me is figuring the exact delta v for each stage, so that I use the least amount of fuel and not create any debris in orbit. Just recently I have managed to send a probe to eve, with an automated lander module, and the whole rocket was 17.9 tons at the launchpad. It must have took me about 5 "simulated" launches just to get the exact ratio of lower - upper stage correctly as not to leave debris in LKO.

[Holo]

I find this wonderful. Just the type of thing I'd love to turn into a overwhelmingly inticrate flowchart. Watch this space:

Ok, you don't have to watch it constantly. Just feed it every few hours or so.

[ROFLCopter64bit]

I find this wonderful. Just the type of thing I'd love to turn into a overwhelmingly inticrate flowchart. Watch this space:

-snip blank space-

Ok, you don't have to watch it constantly. Just feed it every few hours or so.

Ooh! Ooh! Flowcharts! I want to help!

[Nobody_1707]

Don't plan missions. Set goals then plan operations to achieve that goal. Planning "missions" is how NASA ended up with the Space Shuttle.

For example:

Goal: Land two Kerbals on the Mün and return safely.
Operation 1: Send landing vehicle into KEO.
Operation plan: …
Operation 2: Send crew into KEO.
Operation plan: …
Operation 3: Dock Crew Service Module (CSM) with landing vehicle.
Operation plan: …
Operation 4: Create a Münar encounter.
Operation plan: …
Operation 5: Move into a Münar parking orbit.
Opertation plan: …
Operation 6: Transfer crew to landing vehicle and undock.
Operation plan: …
Operation 7: Land on Mün.
Operation plan: …
Operation 8: Dick around on Mün.
Operation plan: …
Operation 9: Launch lander into Münar orbit.
Operation plan: …
Operation 10: Rendevoux with the CSM
Operation plan: …
Operation 11: Transfer into the CSM and fly back to Kerbin.
Operation plan: …
Operation 12: Disconnect the capsule and reenter Kerbin atmosphere.
Operation plan: …
Operation 13: Land safely.
Operation plan: … 

[Holo]

Progress so far on the overcomplicated flowchart.

[SkyRender]

While I tend to just do missions as the fancy strikes (or as a challenge dictates, if I am so inclined), I do also usually plan them out a bit. Kerbal Engineer Redux helps a lot with that, since it spares me from hand-calculating all of the dV values. I try to set up at least two major objectives per flight, or at least two flights per mission (whichever makes the most sense at the time).

[ROFLCopter64bit]

-snip-

Progress so far on the overcomplicated flowchart.

I can make a simplified version of that.

[M5000]

This thread is actually spawning a world of different reactions I never even thought of.. Flowchart.. Brilliant...

[ROFLCopter64bit]

Well, I have started a simpler flowchart. It works more like a timeline, but isn't that how all this works? From simple to outragously difficult?

[Nobody_1707]

Slight problem with the overcomplicated flow chart, the flow doesn't start anywhere. There doesn't have to be an exit flow, but if there isn't an entrance flow then nothing on the flowchart will ever happen.

[AustralianFries]

Slight problem with the overcomplicated flow chart, the flow doesn't start anywhere. There doesn't have to be an exit flow, but if there isn't an entrance flow then nothing on the flowchart will ever happen.

I believe the chart starts at "Suborbital Craft", which is located at the bottom-ish right-ish.

My Mission Plans:

-Build craft

-Launch Craft

-???

-Orbit

-Go places

-Try to get back to Kerbin

[Holo]

Well, I have started a simpler flowchart. It works more like a timeline, but isn't that how all this works? From simple to outragously difficult?

Yep. I just want to get the "Integrated Space Plan" vibe from it.

Slight problem with the overcomplicated flow chart, the flow doesn't start anywhere. There doesn't have to be an exit flow, but if there isn't an entrance flow then nothing on the flowchart will ever happen.

Nope; it starts at suborbital craft, which is near the bottom center.

[Nobody_1707]

Then I think it's safe to say that your flowchart is sufficiently overcomplicated.

[Holo]

Then I think it's safe to say that your flowchart is sufficiently overcomplicated.

Nope. This is though:

[Ringer]

Holo, I like the flowchart. I'm afraid if you expand it to include a similar number of objectives for each body it'll be staggeringly large. I bet if you find a way to arrange it to look more linear, it'll be a little cleaner. Think Civilization tech tree -- which also wouldn't be a bad way of unlocking missions in the game, in my opinion!

How's this:

First, here's a rather abbreviated 'map' chart from Kerbin to each other body. You can make one of these from any starting point. Given the delta-V requirements of each transfer and circularization, this could be the basis of a system for allocating money to missions. The bodies are listed in green; on each of these, many further objectives could be chosen (e.g. circularize, land, map); each of these is also a starting point of another such map, should one mission go multiple places.

Here's a chart of every objective I could think of for each body in the game (including some which aren't yet implemented). A mission might involve many of these, even for more than one celestial body. It doesn't really have much for Kerbin, which as the game's starting point, should really be granted its own set of smaller and simpler missions. As many have mentioned above, these fit nicely into the learning curve up to reliably achieving Kerbin orbit.

If I get bored later I'm absolutely whacking out a tech-tree style mission list!

[Holo]

It's not meant to be readable, it's meant to look like this horrendous beast. When I'm actually working on it, it looks like this:

[maackey]

Why in the world would you purposefully obfuscate a flowchart that is supposed to help clarify mission progress? Anyway, I love this version so far. Might I ask what program you are using to make it?

[Brotoro]

My personal KSP space program went like this:

1. Suborbital Flight (learn to control rockets).

2. Orbital Flight (practice orbital mechanics).

3. Semi-precise Landings on Kerbin.

4. Mün Landing & Return (via münar orbit).

5. Minmus Landing (learn to change orbital inclination).

6. Figure out how to get kerbels to all planets:

a. Rendezvous and docking

b. Mothership/Twin-Lander design to all planets and moons

c. Learn better interplanetary transfers and fuel efficient orbital techniques (aerobraking).

7. Basic Space Stations.

8. Unmanned Probes and Electricity stuff.

8. Rovers (pre-0.19 stock). Minmus, Mun, Duna, Ike, Eve, Laythe.

9. Big Rescue Missions to save kerbals from previous mistakes.

10. Searching for Easter Eggs.

11. Mapsat.

12. Minmus Moonbase.

13. SSTO rockets and Reusable Launchers.

14. Landing/Return from Tylo; Landing/Return from Eve (the toughies).

15. Rovers Redone (0.19 versions).

16. Learn to fly planes.

17. SSTO Spaceplane to Orbit.

18. Long-Term Base on Laythe (underway).

See first link in Sig.

[Ringer]

Holo, the chart you linked is incredible. And I gotta say the less compact version you made is much, much clearer. When multiple arrows lead to one item, is your intent to say "either of these could lead to this mission as a logical follow-up"? Because that makes it less linear, and I like that. It would be pretty weird as a player to achieve a lunar orbital probe and move straight on to a series of Laythe missions, but the game is all about openness (at least in sandbox). I suppose when funding is implemented -- assuming you're not going to get more money until you have some small successes -- it'll keep the missions in reasonable order.

I understand you're just laying out YOUR space program there, but if you tricked out that chart with ALL the possibilities it'd be k-k-k-killer. Can your software implement some sort of color-coding or grouping for less significant tasks? Like where you have "Tylo Resource Scan" there might as well be a bunch of other Tylo-related tasks like landing or setting up a station. If we're talking "things you can do in the game" rather than "things useful for the purpose of extra-Kerbin habitation".