Is it Possible to have an SSTO landed and come back to a 100km orbit from EVE?

[GoSlash27]

Even with the buff to the aerospike in 1.04, my math shows this to be impossible. It's just barely possible to make the DV in vacuum (at about .5% payload fraction), but between the additional mass of airframe, additional drag penalty of flying out, and reduced Isp of operating in atmosphere, It's not enough.

Perhaps if you can get out of the atmosphere on aerospikes and then use ions... but I doubt they can generate sufficient thrust.. You generally need at least .35:1 t/w to make orbit in a glider.

Best,

-Slashy

[Foxster]

I'm gonna stick my neck out and say it is still impossible.

I spent quite some time recently building Eve craft, including trying for an SSTO, and I wasn't getting anywhere near.

[Nao]

I'd say guys "go for it" ! Hyperedited a simple one engine-type rocket with a 0.8t capsule and fell short something like 200m/s of orbit from 7600m launch height... so it's probably possible but everything will be on the very edge.

Welp "loosing is fun" they say. This will be a really Dwarfy challenge

[SuicidalInsanity]

My attempt:

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Just a few hundred dV more needed. I might have done better with a better flight profile. The main problems is packing enough fuel onto a plane to get a high enough fuel fraction, especially with KSP tank weights being what they are - that plane is ~320 tons dry.

[selfish_meme]

My attempt:

http://imgur.com/a/bVOSu

Just a few hundred dV more needed. I might have done better with a better flight profile. The main problems is packing enough fuel onto a plane to get a high enough fuel fraction, especially with KSP tank weights being what they are - that plane is ~320 tons dry.

If you hyper edit that thing onto the top of the 7500m mountain (if it fits) you might make it. Thats another 2000m higher starting point. incredible effort your frame rate must have been glacial.

[selfish_meme]

Much lower initial TWR, which is the killer on Eve ascents, getting the dV is easy, but getting it with 1.6 TWR is whats hard. If you could do the first 20k with a much lower TWR, which will rise as you use fuel. I've got a positive feeling about it.

[windows_x_seven]

I don't think it's possible without abusing bugs, I think I read the wiki saying that it was mathematically impossible with stock parts or something.

[Nao]

Dang it SuicidalInsanity... i've been trying to recreate that craft's performance only to see you are using FAR >_<

That said i'm improving my no wings rocket design and from 7500m i'm short 67m/s to 93x91 orbit. So it's most likely doable

I don't think it's possible without abusing bugs, I think I read the wiki saying that it was mathematically impossible with stock parts or something.

Wiki, especially with new atmosphere, is definitely not accurate enough. Stating 8000m/s as required minimum dv to orbit, while it's definitely possible with below 5000m/s in patch 1.0.4 (launching from highest peak on the planet) Edited July 5, 2015 by Nao
somehow i deleted the "wings" word, now it should make sense...

[Foxster]

Wiki, especially with new atmosphere, is definitely not accurate enough. Stating 8000m/s as required minimum dv to orbit, while it's definitely possible with below 5000m/s in patch 1.0.4

The Wiki still talks about the old aero and 9 to 12 kdV being needed.

Really as low as 5000m/s? Umm. Think you might only be able to do that by hyperediting your craft to the top of the highest peak. Even then it sounds low. Could be though.

[Nao]

The Wiki still talks about the old aero and 9 to 12 kdV being needed.

Really as low as 5000m/s? Umm. Think you might only be able to do that by hyperediting your craft to the top of the highest peak. Even then it sounds low. Could be though.

I do use hyperedit, it is so much on the edge it would take too much iterations normally... Right now the best ascent dV was something around 4800m/s (vac) from highest peak on eve. (with temperature issues too).

But if there was one rule to atmosphere in FAR it would be "there is no atmosphere" and with 1.0.4 it's the same. Thats why the dV values are so low.

Edit: Heh, it might be just barely impossible still, i can get to 100x100km orbit with something like 2t of stuff that isn't engines and fuel from the highest peak, but coming down will be a real problem :/

SSTO ascent is possible thou, so thats one thing down...

Edited July 5, 2015 by Nao

[Benji13]

Has anyone tried doing this with a mining SSTO? Quick scan, land, mine and refuel, leave with a bit of ore in the tanks for later. 

[spacebrick3]

I don't think mining SSTOs are viable, simply because you have to carry too much. The converter/drills alone adds almost 2 to 6 tons depending on what you use, and I think it would be easier simply to refuel in Eve orbit before landing.

[Foxster]

3 hours ago, Benji13 said:

Has anyone tried doing this with a mining SSTO? Quick scan, land, mine and refuel, leave with a bit of ore in the tanks for later. 

A mining operation is only going to top the tanks off with the fuel used to de-orbit, which isn't much. 

The problem is about getting a fueled craft off the ground at Eve and to orbit - I don't think anyone is too bothered how the craft got there in the first place. 

[Benji13]

18 hours ago, Foxster said:

A mining operation is only going to top the tanks off with the fuel used to de-orbit, which isn't much. 

The problem is about getting a fueled craft off the ground at Eve and to orbit - I don't think anyone is too bothered how the craft got there in the first place. 

Challenge accepted...

[SteveD80]

From what I've read getting to space is not that much of an issue, the problem is staying there. So would a suborbital docking with a fast gas tank qualify?

 

[Val]

1 hour ago, SteveD80 said:

From what I've read getting to space is not that much of an issue, the problem is staying there. So would a suborbital docking with a fast gas tank qualify?

It would break the Single-Stage or no refuel requirements.

Note: I'm aware this is a really old thread, but I'll allow it, as the discussion is still relevant.

[tseitsei89]

21 minutes ago, Val said:

It would break the Single-Stage or no refuel requirements.

True bit it would still:

1) be an amazing feat of piloting skills

2) allow for a completely free and reusable spaceprogram/transportation throughout the whole kerbol system once you get the infrastructure in place. And that would be just beautiful.

I mean fully recoverable sstos to carry any payload to lko 

There those will be given to nuclear tugs that can take them to orbit of any planet.

There we would have ssto capable landers for every planet (except for eve we would need this suborbital docking trick)

And on the surfaces we would have isru bases to refuel landers and nuclear tugs when needed.

Everything is free since everything is 100% reusable and all fuel can be made by isru. Just perfect!:)

Edited June 1, 2016 by tseitsei89

[AlexTheNotSoGreat]

Single stage to Eve means one stage to Eve's surface and back.

SSTO to Eve means single stage to Kerbin orbit, can stage afterward.

So with these terms, and SSTO to Eve is possible, but not a single stage to Eve.