Advice for a first time Mun base?

[Malachai]

I had plans for a space station, but then I DL'd the Kethane pack, and now I'm focusing on a large-scale kethane operation, and to go with it, a nice base for all the miners and such to live. The problem is, I have no idea where to start. I like to think big, but that can be tricky if you don't know the basics. I've seen some pretty impressive, sprawling bases, with linked hab modules and I'm thinking that's something I want to do! So, where the heck do I start!? Are there interesting mods/parts to play with? Are what should I keep in mind? Should I try to lift as much of it as I can in one go, or launch many little pieces? I've got plenty of time to plan right now, as I'm currently mapping the surface, but help is certainly needed!

Also, how do they do the horizontal layout? Because I noticed that the Hitchhiker has the ladders vertically oriented.

Oh, and you can expect a post like this from me in the future, but instead of me begging for direction with a Mun base, it'll be a space station

[sewerbird]

One mod that can be really kind of fun if you want a large-scale base is the HOME mod on SpacePort: has neat inflatable habitats with some greenery. Scott Manley has a pretty large base on Youtube if you want to see the nitty gritty of setting a base up. The least hassle way is to either lift a 100+ ton monstrosity in one go, or do several landings. Several landings has the benefit of spacing out the base 2km apart, so your lag is reduced. You'll get lots of practice landing at a coordinate!

[Malachai]

Thanks for tips. Another question, kind of related. With fuel transfers, do the tanks I'm transferring fuel between need to be connected, or do they just have to be ATTACHED to something that's attached to something that's attached to the tanks?

I ask because I braved the bugs of the VAB to build a massive mobile heavy drilling platform, but failed to think about how I would offload my payload to the main storage tanks. I do have ONE idea, but it'd be a pain in the butt to execute (fuel lines running to a main tank on top of the platform, a docking port on top of that tank, with an offshoot of the main storage at EXACTLY the right height to mate the docking ports. Gads, even typing that was exhausting...).

[Ringer]

Fuel tanks just have to be connected in some way, as long as every part between them is 'fuel crossfeed capable'. Almost all parts are, including docking ports, so your fuel tanks can be pretty much anywhere. I should mention that you alt+right-click both tanks you want to use, as it took me a long time to find that out.

I recommend your station:

- Is on or near the equator, for convenient launches after refueling

- Is on the flattest terrain you can find

- Is on a very big deposit (Kethane converts to much less fuel)

- Has lots of extra docking ports: you never know what you might come up with later

- Has a lot of solar panels, because conversion and mining take up a lot of electricity. So much, in fact, that mining at night on battery power hardly buys you any extra time.

- Has multiple drills, because one large converter can convert Kethane at least 4 times as fast as one drill mines it

- Docks from its sides, because it is damn nigh impossible to land on top of a surface station

- Has an easily detachable rover or other craft for delivering fuel to vessels that want to refuel

On that last point, I used to use a sort of rover with a carefully placed, protruding docking port at a measured height above the ground. It was a 3/4 rockomax tank with landing gear wheels and rockomax small radial thrusters on front and back to move around. It could roll up and very easily connect with the Kethane mining rig at the same level with a normally placed port to refuel. The plan was to give ships inline docking ports so they could land on the Mun upright and a safe distance from the mining rig. Then, the 'rover' could bring the fuel up and use its measured-height port to dock with the inline clamp and refuel the ship. This didn't work at all, because it called for more perfectly flat terrain than the Mun can offer, and translation (RCS) is not an option on the ground, so adjusting horizontal line-up with the ship's port meant driving away, turning, and driving back. I only got it to work once. In my later, much better design, I used a lander with small radial thrusters that it could use to tip itself over and deploy wheels. It'd refuel, tilt itself back upright, and take off to low Mun orbit to refuel the waiting ship. This used considerably more fuel, but it didn't cause loss of hair/sanity

[Malachai]

Hmm...Good thoughts, good points. I'll need to look at my layout for my drilling platform, but I don't think many of the parts are c.f. capable. I might need to rethink my design. As for the positioning, I may have found a good spot, and it does happen to be on the equator, but I'm not making up my mind until I get the full map.

[Ringer]

Seriously, don't worry about fuel crossfeed. Even girders can do it. I have never thought about it, and I have never once docked things together whose fuel couldn't be pumped between them.

[Malachai]

Wait, girders are capable? That strains the mind a little...

[Spatzimaus]

but I don't think many of the parts are c.f. capable.

Nearly every part is crossfeed capable. Seriously, this is NOT a problem.

As to Ringer's suggestions, I'd just add one point: when it comes time to transfer fuel, relying on horizontal docking ports can be really problematic, as it forces all future designs to put their ports at the same height. There are a few ways around this, using mods; for instance, my own mobile fuel refinery has a winch from the Kerbal Attachment System mod. When I want to transfer fuel to a vessel, I just drive over to it, grab it with the winches, and lift/pull until it lines up with the right docking port. The next major version will supposedly add dedicated fuel ports for this purpose, so that the winch itself can be used to transfer fuel. But I've done this on a smaller scale as well; one of my old bases had a downward-facing docking port, and my mining rover had an upward-facing one, plus a winch to pull the two together. Much easier to align properly.

But honestly, my suggestion for Kethane is to not make a static base. Stick some big wheels on your refinery, so that you can drive it from the deposit to where your ships are landed, and then you don't need a small transfer vehicle. Instead, you'll have one giant vehicle with everything it needs onboard. (Imagine the Sandcrawlers from Star Wars, and you won't be too far off.)

[Mastodon]

Anyone have the link of the scott manley base vid? I couldnt find it.

[Darren9]

If you want to go really big it needs to be on dead flat ground with low gravity. The biggest one piece-docked basses I've seen have been on the Minmus ice flats. I tried it on the Mun and it ended in tears. If the base is long and heavy enough (or high enough gravity) to bend over the uneven terrain it takes off and/or flies apart on load/reload or switching craft in and out of render-range. I ran into problems quite soon on rough ground.

[Frostiken]

There are a few ways around this, using mods; for instance, my own mobile fuel refinery has a winch from the Kerbal Attachment System mod. When I want to transfer fuel to a vessel, I just drive over to it, grab it with the winches, and lift/pull until it lines up with the right docking port.

The winches now also act as hoses so you don't even have to do that. Just grab the hose off your transfer vehicle in EVA, and fuel up your craft.

[Peenvogel]

For building a Mun base I recommend the robotic arms pack and the weights mod to create the counterweights so you can lift quite some payload in the air.

[Akalaël]

Scott's Mün base :

And I agree with lateral docking : it's a headache !

EPIC FAIL:

[Nimaci]

The best way I have found to avoid the docking port height problem is to use a modular lander as your template, and create all craft from it.

Here is the last iteration of the launcher/lander template that I used to build my Minmus Outpost:

All I had to do to create a new module was load the template, lift the nosecone off, add whatever components I needed to the top of the white tank, place the nosecone back on top of whatever I added, save as a new craft, then launch.

As each modules base structure is a clone the docking points are guaranteed to be the same height.

[Iren]

On my first Munar base I assumed that kerbals would EVA if needing to transfer to other modules/vehicles, so it ended being like this:

[Richy teh space man]

For my mining operations I have a space station in orbit for refuelling tankers, and use nerva powered landers to drop down and collect Kethane.

For my miners they can hold around 40k of Kethane, can refine it in place to refuel the landers, and are also capable of bringing 40k back to orbit to refuel themselves for the next landing as well as anything else that needs it.

I do recommend using mobile landers though, as driving between deposits will be time consuming. I'd also suggest trying Minmus first for mining operations, as it's more profitable getting fuel to orbit due to lower delta V requirements in landing/taking off.

I'll post pics when I get home of some of my landers to give you inspiration.

Edit: My current Kethane landers

Edited May 1, 2013 by Richy teh space man

[Malachai]

1. Thanks for the link, Akalaël! It gave me some good ideas, and I learned about the current state of fusion reactors in the process!

2. Frostiken, I just DL'd the winch mod, and I'll be installing and toying about with it some time today.

3. Nimaci, great tip! I do believe I'll be using the template thing in the future!

4. Peenvogel, I'll be messing around with those two mods when I get the chance. Not sure about the rainbow scheme on the weights, though. But maybe I'll build a trebuche and try to get a pod into orbit!

And folks, I must say, I am infinitely pleased with how cool all of you are. When I come to a game forum, I expect flame, I expect vitriol, I expect a Circle of Hell that Dante couldn't have dreamed of. Thank you for following Wheaton's Law. /mushystuff.

[Math/Science Guy]

I'd first land a rover compatible with a common base for all your modules so you can connect them.  That is what I did for my base.  Still a work in progress tho.

 

[Corona688]

Any "first" thing you do is liable to be slightly wrong, mine always are, so I think start smaller - then send expansions and corrections until it's as big and functional as you want.

It'll also probably end up a hilarious mess, but a functioning hilarious mess, instead of one solitary try which took all day and left no survivors.

Edited October 15, 2020 by Corona688

[Vanamonde]

As the thread is 7 years old, the mods recommended probably don't exist anymore. However, most of the thread is still relevant. Good luck.  

[Corona688]

:facepalm:

I should have noticed when they said kethane...