Long-term Laythe Mission (pic heavy) - ^_^ With Part 45 ^_^

[Danish_Savage]

Emilynn is going to be dangerous if she gets into the cockpit of a BirdDog.

Nah, Emilynn is wild, not reckless, and the BD is a very good craft. It will all be fine...

Part 20 is not the end... but I did rush to get Part 20 out quickly because of the cliff hanger of Part 19.

I have been making new stuff and sending it out to Laythe... but it takes a while: Launch. Dock. Launch. Dock. Launch. Dock. Transfer burn. Targeting burn. All stuff I've done before, so I haven't been in a big rush to do it again. Also, as the end of semester approaches I have a lot more stuff to do other than play KSP.

Doing something very similar whit Duna, it takes a lot of patience.

[AppleDavidJeans]

Brotoro, have you ever thought about swapping out the stock command pops with stock command pods that have built-in Mechjeb like this one? I've noticed that you sometimes forget to slap on the Mechjebs, which meant falling back to your methods of using landmarks to guide your craft to the desired landing point? I'm pretty sure that the capsule specs would be the same. You could write it in as a software update.

[Commissioner Tadpole]

Brotoro, have you ever thought about swapping out the stock command pops with stock command pods that have built-in Mechjeb like this one? I've noticed that you sometimes forget to slap on the Mechjebs, which meant falling back to your methods of using landmarks to guide your craft to the desired landing point? I'm pretty sure that the capsule specs would be the same. You could write it in as a software update.

Keep in mind that MechJeb's command pod has a mass value of 6. This might mess up lighter pods, such as Mk1 Command Pod which has a mass value of 0.8.

[Logan.Darklighter]

Keep in mind that MechJeb's command pod has a mass value of 6. This might mess up lighter pods, such as Mk1 Command Pod which has a mass value of 0.8.

That could be altered by going into the part .cfg and editing the mass value back to a normal pod.

[Gamercraft_GC]

Awesome awesome awesome! More more more!!!!

[Commissioner Tadpole]

Sorry if it's unrelated, but due to how much I liked this story, I've began to picture the plucky colonists at Duna in my save file as some sort of 'analogues' to the ones in this story. Mitkin seems to be like Aldner, Bill appears to be just like Thompbles, and Malllan is most likely Kurt and/or Nelemy.

[Danish_Savage]

Did you manage to make the transfer?

[macdjord]

@Brotoro: You know, you put so much effort into safety equipment, but I can't help noticing you don't have anything that can rescue a Kerbal who ends up in the drink. I was thinking maybe you should send a water-launch-capable rocket out there - it needn't be an SSTO; since it's emergency-only equipment, it needn't be reusable. Or you could just ship out an other Dogfish, then leave it in orbit - if somebody gets wet, the Dogfish can splash down nearby and transport them to dry land to be picked up by one of the existing rescue options.

[Brotoro]

@Brotoro: You know, you put so much effort into safety equipment, but I can't help noticing you don't have anything that can rescue a Kerbal who ends up in the drink. I was thinking maybe you should send a water-launch-capable rocket out there - it needn't be an SSTO; since it's emergency-only equipment, it needn't be reusable. Or you could just ship out an other Dogfish, then leave it in orbit - if somebody gets wet, the Dogfish can splash down nearby and transport them to dry land to be picked up by one of the existing rescue options.

I have also been uneasy about the lack of marine rescue. I tested VTOL airplanes, but my piloting and/or design was never reliable enough to be able to land and takeoff safely from the water. My solution is a jet-powered, parachute-landed hopper that can be dropped in from orbit and has enough range to get two kerbals to a handy island for pickup by plane. This rescue craft is already en route to Jool in the next batch of vehicles.

The semester is almost over...and after finals I'll be able to get back to posting some more about our brave explorers on Laythe.

(Ooooo... Post number 1000!)

[Danish_Savage]

(Ooooo... Post number 1000!)

Congratulations!

I wonder what that craft will be called? Hopper? BirdHopper?

[Brotoro]

Congratulations!

I wonder what that craft will be called? Hopper? BirdHopper?

Because it is probe controlled, I called the first version "Automated Marine Operations Rescue". That version was larger than needed, so a made a new, smaller version "New Automated Marine Operations Rescue" (so it is NAMOR, named after the Sub-Mariner, a Marvel Comics character. I assume kernels read Marvel comics.). I ran into all sorts of trouble testing this vehicle on Kerbin because of the bug regarding re-packed parachutes. I did about 20 test flights trying to figure out why deploying the repacked chutes would cause parts of the ship to mysteriously explode (the bug only shows up in certain circumstances…which is why this was hard to run down). But NAMOR 20 was approved for shipment to Laythe. Hopefully it will never actually be needed…but I think we'll have a little "The Following Did Not Actually Happen" sequence to see it in action.

[Scotius]

Does it wear scaly undergarments? Sorry, couldn't resist. Do you have any plans in case 0.23 adds biomes to Laythe and other Jool satellites? Mini Grand Tour maybe?

[Brotoro]

I'm still working on 0.22... incorporating more SCIENCE.

But I'll get a jump on 0.23 by incorporating tweakables.

[Commander Zoom]

Does it wear scaly undergarments? Sorry, couldn't resist.

I lol'd.

Looking forward, as always, to more of this exciting and inspiring series.

[Commissioner Tadpole]

Hey Brotoro, could you add in a reference to my Kerbal OC, Archie S. Kerman(a guy who founded a company that salvages and restores old, abandoned parts, thanks to this mod)? I don't mind whether one of the characters names an island after him, he appears as a character later on, or if he's just mentioned by the characters, but as long as his appearance/mention isn't offensive I'd be happy, and I'll understand as well if you can't reference him in(though it'd be better if you'd explain why).

[macdjord]

I have also been uneasy about the lack of marine rescue. I tested VTOL airplanes, but my piloting and/or design was never reliable enough to be able to land and takeoff safely from the water.

The solution for landing is to slap one of those 3m girders on your plane, sticking strait up directly over the COM, with a chute or three on top. Then get come in slow over your target and pop the cute. You'll drop down slow and dead level. (If you want to be realistic, put a couple chutes at the rear of the plane, too. Pop the rear chutes, wait for them to fully deploy, pop the top chute, then cut the rear chute. That way, your plane isn't subjected to huge G-forces as it snaps instantly from forward flight to vertical decent.)

Not sure how you'd do takeoff, though. Maybe slap a pontoon on a truss at those nose? If you've got a high enough TWR, that would be enough to get you off the ground. Of course, it would also make it impossible to land on the ground unless you either ejected that bit, or use a hinge to fold it up. Or maybe just slap on a few radial engines an make it a true VTOL...

I've got the BirdDog Mk 3 from last page; I'll see if I can build something suitable.

[Deddly]

Sea planes are also possible - the one I sent to Laythe on this thread http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/24340-Build-the-fastest-boat/page8 works really well, taking off and landing on water with ease - no parachutes necessary, unless you use the abort sequence like I did on the first try...

/Ed

[Jaxal1]

I did a vertical takeoff plane when (due to SCIENCE!) I had access to landing struts but not landing gear. Took off from KSP with gantries holding it upright, landed on its tail with parachutes on the nose.

Not sure how you'd stabilize it to stand on its tail in the water, though.

[Brotoro]

Sea planes are also possible - the one I sent to Laythe on this thread http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/24340-Build-the-fastest-boat/page8 works really well, taking off and landing on water with ease - no parachutes necessary, unless you use the abort sequence like I did on the first try...

/Ed

Well, I tried landing some planes with gear that look like yours in the water, but all I got each time was a smashed up plane. Perhaps you have some amazing landing or construction technique.

[Commissioner Tadpole]

Well...no answer on my question? ._.

[Exovian]

If you want to take a look at it, or try sending it to Laythe yourself, here's a reliable little seaplane of mine that can hold 4 passengers on side panels:

http://www./view/b7opo7s0uwd583u/Recovery%20Craft.craft

Instructions should be simple:

Take Kerbal from top pod and put it into the middle pilot EVA seat. (the top pod could potentially be replaced with fuel if you wanted to try that and send it unmanned). Throttle up; I rarely use more than 10% throttle, as the plane can take off at 20m/s. You are now airborne.

Landing: come it at under 40m/s at a very shallow angle, maybe 1-2m/s descent rate, with the engine cut off (this thing glides just fine, believe me). I'd say keep the landing wheels retracted, but I've never tried with them down. When you hit the water, you should slow to a stop very quickly. Ladders on either side lead to the side seats, so Kerbals can swim up and climb on. It can taxi on the water easily, but it's not a speed demon.

Takeoff from water: Apply 50% throttle, and keep the plane level. When you reach 20m/s, gently pull up. You should come easily out of the water.

Enjoy; I hope this helps.

[Logan.Darklighter]

As far as I know, Levelord's Amphibious VTOLSSTO still works perfectly fine and the base model (and a couple of "rescue" variants) are 100% stock parts. It's a reliable design and apparently works quite well up at Laythe. I recommend that for rescuing Kerbals from the drink.

[Brotoro]

Well...no answer on my question? ._.

No, I don't think I'm likely to reference something I don't know about.

And as for planes that land on water, everybody, I will play around with things people have sent or suggested to see if I can reliably get them to work…but the NAMOR is already en route to Laythe, so anything else would be sent at a later time.

[bsalis]

Never mind other peoples crafts, I want to see Brotoros new toys.

When will we see this SSTO Spaceplane you mentioned. Good to see you expanding on your tools.

[macdjord]

I've got the BirdDog Mk 3 from last page; I'll see if I can build something suitable.

Here we go: BirdDog Mk 3 (VTOL)

Vertical Landing Procedure:

1. Come in over target, low speed, altitude < 500m
   
2. Kill jet engine (action group 2)
   
3. Allow speed to drop, pitching up to maintain altitude
   
4. When speed is as low as possible (i.e. a stall is imminent), pop the rear bottom chute (action group 3)
   
5. Once airspeed has been reduced to terminal velocity (~2s after chute fully deploys), pop remaining chutes (action group 4)
   
6. Deploy gear
   
7. SAS off. If MechJeb is available, switch ASAS to SURF, settings:
   
   • HDG: Desired takeoff direction
     
   • PIT: 0
     
   • ROL: 0
     

[*]Wait for landing. Impact speed should be 5-6 m/s when fully fueled, at or near sea level.

Vertical Takeoff Procedure:

1. All engines off
   
2. Brakes on
   
3. Throttle to max
   
4. SAS on. If MechJeb is available, switch ASAS to SURF, settings:
   
   • HDG: Current heading
     
   • PIT: 0
     
   • ROL: 0
     

[*]Activate jet engine (action group 2). Allow ~2s to spool up

[*]Activate vertical rockets (action group 1)

[*]Wait ~5s for plane to gain altitude and jet to gain thrust

[*]Pitch up ~15 degrees. If MechJeb is available, switch ASAS to SURF, settings:

• HDG: Current heading
  
• PIT: 15
  
• ROL: 0
  

[*]Once proper pitch is achieved, kill vertical rockets (action group 1)

[*]Stabilize altitude and heading

[*]Gear up

[*]You should now be in normal flight

Design Notes and Caveats:

• The plane has fuel for ~30s of full thrust on its vertical rockets, which is enough for 3-4 liftoffs, depending on how frugal you are
  
• The vertical rockets have just barely enough thrust to lift the plane, fully fueled, on Kerbin. On Laythe, with its 20% lower gravity, they have plenty of thrust. If you wish to test the craft on Kerbin, try dumping ~1/3rd of one of the fuel tanks.
  
• When descending vertically on chutes, the plane is sensitive to the location of the COG to keep it level. If it lands too far off level, particularly in water, parts may break when the craft flattens out. Before doing a vertical landing, try to balance fuel between the tanks; the COG should be directly below the girder the chutes are mounted to. (You can find the COG in-flight by zooming in; the camera always centers on the COG.) In a pinch, cut away one of the bottom chutes - you should still be able to land safely on 7 chutes, especially if you have less than a full load of fuel
  
  • Vertical ascent is also sensitive to COG changes, though not as much, since it can correct with vectored thrust. Also, a moderate tendency to pitch up is not a problem, as the rockets are only on for a short period. Pitch down, however, should be strenuously avoided; the jet has more than enough thrust overcome the rockets' lift and force the craft into the ground given even a slight downward pitch.
    

  [*]If you run out of oxidizer, be sure to shut off the vertical jets. They will happily waste jet fuel at full speed while producing no flame or thrust.

  [*]As an alternative method of deploying the chutes, you can pop one or more of them above 500m, allowing you to use their semi-deployed drag to reduce airspeed even more before they deploy fully. However, this is far more complicated, since you have to synchronize things so you pass through 500m just as your speed hits minimum, as opposed to the method described above, where you can just watch your airspeed and pop the chute whenever you feel it is optimal.

  • Actually, the best method would be to get as low and slow as possible, pitch up hard into a strait vertical climb, then pop all the chutes just after you hit peak and start falling backward. But you'd have to pull a perfect vertical climb while gliding, make sure that you hit peak under 500m, and that you pop the chutes just after peak so they don't cut away when your speed zeroes. Very fancy flying.
    

  [*]I had to move the docking port forward, since the COG-centered location is now taken up by the chute girder. However, it is at the same height, so it should still work with the standard Gas Station. I haven't tested that, though.

  • Of course, the standard Gas Station doesn't have much in the way of oxidizer for the vertical rockets - one and one third full refills, less any used in landing. Might want to send out one that swaps a couple of Mk I Fuselages for FL-T200s. That would give you enough juice to use the VTOL for exploration as well as rescue.
    

  [*]There is no need for a separate retro-pack, since the vertical jets have more than enough delta-v for a deorbit burn. Just use the docking port as your control point; it's facing the right way.

  [*]I've programmed the abort button; it kills all engines and pops all chutes.

  [*]There are two additional mods I'd suggest, but which I didn't implement since I wanted to change the design as little as possible:

  • Add a RTG somewhere, as a reliable source of power in darkness.
    
  • Add one more radial chute, attached directly to the cockpit. Don't add it to the vertical landing groups, but do add it to the abort group. Then, even if the plane breaks up (e.g. because you popped all the chutes while traveling at top speed), you can pop that one and land the pilot survivably for later rescue.
    

  [*]You can repack all the chutes while standing on the cockpit ladder.