To Mars By A-Bomb

[Temstar]

I recall a long time ago I saw on TV a particular scene that was stuck in my mind. It was a little... thing that flew up skywards propelled by a chain of explosions. Now that KSP got me into space flight I looked up that video again and found the source:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4k_YZAXSEI

To Mars By A-Bomb - The Secret History of Project Orion

Fascinating documentary about a group of genius (Freeman Dyson of the Dyson Sphere fame, Ted Taylor - famous for being able to design very small nukes, Arthur C. Clarke all interviewed) trying to build an ocean liner sized spacecraft capable of single stage to Mars or the outer planes and return, propelled by some 2000 nuclear bombs.

In case you wonder how big those Orion ships are, particularly that fascinating planetbusting "Orion Battleship" with its nuclear cannons and 25 megaton missile battery:

Note the space shuttle for size

Edited May 6, 2013 by Temstar

[Canopus]

Someone actually started to develop a mod for nuclear pulse propulsion but he hasn't been here since the forum outtage.

[cocomoe1002]

wow... we going MILITARY STYLE.... HURRY NUKE THE MARSAINS!!!!

also I thought that orion was a program for the moon, and maybe mars but if it is a documentary... well then idk what to say about the 32 mega tons of nuclear explosives on bored....

[Spanier]

Making interplanetary mission using nuclear engines is one thing, blowing up LEO another.

The Constellation-Program would have used NERVA engines to bring the payloads to Mars-Orbit (I have no clue how they wanted to storage the hydrogen for several years). Using a pulsed nuclear fission engine results in having very intense radiation and high-g acceleration phases, which are normally lethal to human beeings.

That's why no manned spacecraft will feature that kind of engine

[Spanier]

Btw, a thermonuclear explosion in LEO causes failure of nearby satellites and extreme stress on the van-Allen radiation belt.

[Temstar]

Using a pulsed nuclear fission engine results in having very intense radiation and high-g acceleration phases, which are normally lethal to human beings.

That's why no manned spacecraft will feature that kind of engine

Actually Freeman Dyson worked out the numbers - the bigger an Orion is the safer it actually becomes for the crew in terms of radiation. The thing is people are going to be at the front of the ship, shielded by that huge pusher plate, all the structure of the ship and the nukes stored onboard - turns out dense material including plutonium itself makes excellent shield for gamma radiation.

The biggest Orion envisioned was 20km in diameter, weighs 40 million tons fully loaded with 30 million of those being the 30 million one megaton hydrogen bombs at a ton each, can reach Alpha Centauri and pull into orbit in 2666 years and cost $3.67 Trillion USD, or one year of US GDP at that time.

[superm18]

look at this: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/04/10/nasa_fusion_engine_fast_mars_trip/

Fusion engine that also uses a series of small "explosions"

[magnemoe]

look at this: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/04/10/nasa_fusion_engine_fast_mars_trip/

Fusion engine that also uses a series of small "explosions"

Yes its an later generation orion pulse engine, using small fusion explosions. no the fusion does not go break even, however it greatly improve isp and trust, you need power to trigger them. My main concern is how reliable the engine is. This is also an major headake for traditional orion, however here its mostly mechanic stress.

[ROFLCopter64bit]

and cost $3.67 Trillion USD, or one year of US GDP at that time.

I don't think the US will start pouring that amount of money into NASA

[RawChicken]

Wow.. Its interesting to see old space projects, seem so insane even now!

Think how everything would be if those projects would have continued and launched.

[Temstar]

I did some research on just exactly what that Orion "there goes the Soviet Union" doomsday weapon was and this is what I found out:

However, one of the most radical, but little known USAF Project Orion proposals was the nuclear-powered orbital battleship that was proposed in the late-1950′s. While this system seems like something out of a science fiction novel or a movie, the massive nuclear-powered armed spaceship would orbit high above the Earth and if needed be, unleashes it nuclear payload on multiple targets.

The Orion orbital battleship was post to use a massive nuclear pulse rocket engine that used fission material bombs to power the giant spacecraft. Original plan was to launch the spacecraft to orbit using its nuclear-powered rocket from bases in Southwestern United States or from special launch platforms in the ocean like aircraft carriers or modified ships. However, due to safety reasons and nuclear fallout, they’ve decided to launch it instead using chemical rockets to Earth’s orbit. Orion was a giant massive spacecraft which was 286ft which was taller than most skyscrapers in that era and 164ft in diameter. It would had a crew of close to thirty people onboard that would have operated the orbital battleship. The spacecraft would use a special damper or shock absorbers and shielding to protect the crew from radiation from the ship’s engines and space. Nevertheless a unmanned variant of the Orion orbital battleship was planned too Furthermore, Orion also carried five smaller spaceplanes for resupplies, crew replacements, and emergency life boat in case the Orion was having problems or was getting attacked. It was also quite possible that those small spacecraft were used in defensive and offensive roles including protecting the Orion from Soviet spaceplanes and satellites along with providing reconnaissance and strike roles if necessary

Nevertheless though, the main mission for the Orion battleship would be nuclear deterrence against nations like the Soviet Union, China, and Warsaw Pact nations. The orbital battleship would carry up to 500 20MT nuclear warheads in the frontal part of the spaceship which can be fired downwards while orbiting above a target. However, another radical, but pretty much a doomsday device was an unmanned variant of the Orion battleship armed with a single 3GT (possibly the largest nuclear warhead ever proposed by any nation) nuclear warhead! The ship would fire the warhead or use the ship itself as weapon to strike at its target. Along with its nuclear warheads, the Orion orbital battleship carried massive array of defensive weapon systems like direct-energy weapons, five Mark 42 127mm naval guns, and ten, but mysterious Casaba howitzer which fired a special shaped rounds. The Orion battleship would have lived up to its name since it was armed like a naval battleship on the high seas. The United States Air Force was planning to have a fleet of these orbital battleships in space as a deterrent against the Soviet Union and his allies.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Temstar

[Boris_T_Roach]

I did some research on just exactly what that Orion "there goes the Soviet Union" doomsday weapon was and this is what I found out:

With 10 of those in orbit, any invading alien fleet would think twice before messing with earth

[Tada]

Very interesting indeed... Well, 1950s and early 60s were time when nothing was impossible. Watching the documentary closely, you´ll see, that military aplication was that lifted the program Orion up and then it was what buried Orion, because JFK was sane enough to avoid arms race with soviet union... Nobody wanted fleets of nuclear warships in orbit...

I said it a lot and I will say it again - end of the cold war killed massive progress in space program...

[NeoMorph]

Has anyone ever read a scifi book called Footfall by Larry Niven. That had a race of aliens that looked like small elephants attacking earth and winning... then in secret the Americans make a HUGE project orion driven plate that launched with lots of little ships on it plus a bunch of space shuttles fitted for combat. It fires nukes through a hole in the centre and detonates them driving the whole plate forward into orbit.

That's what I think of when I think of Project Orion.

[Scotius]

Maybe But somehow i sleep better knowing that chances of being instantly vaporised at any given day decreased significantly.

[nyrath]

I've got some notes on Orion here:

http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/enginelist.php#id--Pulse--Orion

In the pulse unit table, divide jet velocity by 9.81 to get specific impulse.

[Crush]

I thought that orion was a program for the moon, and maybe mars but

There are actually two space projects called Orion.

- The Orion project, the megalomanic nuclear pulse propulsion project from the 50s and 60s

- The Orion Multi-Purpose Crew Vehicle, which is a capsule with conventional propulsion designed for up to 6 people and is currently in development by NASA.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Crush

[mod1982]

I wish I'd know about this before creating a heavy rescue lander and calling it Orion... although in hindsight not a bad name as it spontaneously combusted after about 60 minutes of unattendedness.

[P.Funk]

I recall the math saying that using technology from the day it was estimated that a ship of this design could reach a speed so close to that of Light that it could get to Alpha Centauri in something like 100 years, assuming they didn't bother to actually slow down.

Its pretty startling if you think about it. Seems pretty obvious that if we ever have interstellar travel beyond our solar system it won't be happening with a manned crew before we get some kind of long term life-stasis system working, that or we find a bunch of genius prodigies to send around the age of 10 once we've advanced health care tech to the point that we live more than 100 years reliably.

[Scotius]

Or we get the Alcubierre Drive working, and suddenly stars will be weeks and months away, not centuries and millenias. I don't know about you, guys - but i have a good feeling about this

[Person012345]

Making interplanetary mission using nuclear engines is one thing, blowing up LEO another.

The Constellation-Program would have used NERVA engines to bring the payloads to Mars-Orbit (I have no clue how they wanted to storage the hydrogen for several years). Using a pulsed nuclear fission engine results in having very intense radiation and high-g acceleration phases, which are normally lethal to human beeings.

That's why no manned spacecraft will feature that kind of engine

I'd say the Partial Test Ban Treaty is the main one.

[Person012345]

I did some research on just exactly what that Orion "there goes the Soviet Union" doomsday weapon was and this is what I found out:

Don't simply believe everything you see on the internet, what's the source?

[ZedNova]

I'd rather wait another hundred years to get to mars safely than do it in 20 years and risk an EMP over earth...

[nyrath]

There are actually two space projects called Orion.

- The Orion project, the megalomanic nuclear pulse propulsion project from the 50s and 60s

- The Orion Multi-Purpose Crew Vehicle, which is a capsule with conventional propulsion designed for up to 6 people and is currently in development by NASA.

Actually, I think there was a third as well. There are too many blasted projects with the name "Orion."

Don't simply believe everything you see on the internet, what's the source?

Aerospace Projects Review vol2, number 2

Scott Lowther always does meticulous research, you can trust his results.

The "doomsday Orion" mentioned was more of a theoretical idea. The departments in charge of the Orion project were becoming a little desperate to find an application for the blasted thing.

[Rune]

Yet another thread on big old Orion. Me likes! You gotta love a technology from the 50's that is still the best bet for interstellar travel. Actually, right now, the only one that would have a shot at working. If some day we actually have to build an Ark, this is the way to go, grab a whole space colony, put a pusher plate and a shock absorber system behind it, and stuff it with thermonuclear bombs. Universe, here we go. In style.

Rune. 1 parsec per century, according to Dyson, IIRC.