Will we get to other stars?

[Dolkramp]

I'm vehemontly opposed to warp drives. I don't want any crazy fantasy parts in my game about a pretend star system inhanited by green aliens that build rockets out of garbage cans!

[Eji1700]

1. I personally believe that they can very easily(well...sorta.), through a variety of methods/means, add other solar systems and interstellar travel to the game in a balanced fashion. WILL they do it is another question, and totally up to them, but they most certainly can.

2. I really dislike how people seem to feel that such things will ruin the game. It would be more than possible to balance and include in a reasonable manner given the framework they already have/plan on creating. My ONLY concern is time. I want KSP to have as much depth as possible, and that means as much gamespace as possible. If they add another solar system, that's more to do, but I don't want that at the cost of some other feature that should go in first(mining and reentry heat being an easy example...or possibly actual weather). That said, if added, no one is saying you have to use it, but if not added then no one can use it. At the very least i hope they put in the infrastructure required in the code so that modders who want to experiment with it can do so.

3. The "realism" argument bugs me a lot. At the end of the day how real this is comes down to the devs, but one of the things that I love about KSP is being able to test out things that we will likely never see in real life. We don't have hyper massive space stations, moon bases, or even manned missions to mars(lot easier when your astronauts don't eat) in real life, but they are something we could do "in theory" and no one seems to have a problem with them being in the game(and expanded upon). If they really bug you, you probably don't build them, and still enjoy whatever part of the game you have. It's easy to limit yourself if you choose not to do something, but it sucks for others who wanted to do it but now cannot.

There's a LOT of theorized ways to do interstellar travel, and I personally hope that it is not only added, but that many different methods are. As for balance, that's almost trivially easy. Not only are some of these methods inherently balanced(the aforementioned ramjets would be easy to make costly), but unless something massive happens, they're planning on adding a resource system(which will finally help balance the currently overpowered nuke rockets...which no one seems to mind in this topic). Possibly in the very next major version. Every ship you make won't be sporting antimatter engines if it requires mining bases on 6 different planets, a complicated ferry system, and a year of in game time to build one.

So in short, first and foremost I want them to ensure the game keeps it's quality with whatever they have planned. If they feel they don't have development time to add interstellar travel(or to do it justice) so be it, but if kerbal suddenly starts making AAA money out of the blue and they think, we should expand our goals, I very much hope they put the quality and effort they have into making the current game, and apply it to interstellar travel.

[Awaras]

Well, if they decide not to include other star systems, i hope that FTL/interstellar STL could still be an endgame tech for the campaign - make the creation and launch of the first interstellar vessel the final chalenge in the campaign, kinda how it was in the Civilization series...

You just send it off and get a congratulatory message.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Awaras

[_Aramchek_]

I hope squad doesn't listen to all the people whinging about other solar systems, or how it "breaks the realism". Ridiculous.

[Canopus]

I'm vehemontly opposed to warp drives. I don't want any crazy fantasy parts in my game about a pretend star system inhanited by green aliens that build rockets out of garbage cans!

It is still a Game about Newtonian physics!

[itsme86]

Einstein has been proven wrong about FTL, because there are sub-atomic particles capable of traveling faster than the speed of light. Besides, who are we to say the Laws of Physics have been discovered, and Science will never find new "facts"? Just because we can't travel faster than light now doesn't mean it is impossible. Every time I hear someone quote Einstein I get mad...

A lot of people misunderstand the theory of relativity, and you seem to be one of them. Einstein's theory doesn't state that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light; it states that no massive object can accelerate to the speed of light. The amount of energy required to accelerate increases to infinity at the speed of light.

However, this seemingly minor distinction has a huge impact. This leaves non-massive objects exempt from the restriction, as well as objects that start out traveling faster than the speed of light.

Einstein's theory has never been proven wrong, so there's no need for you to continue getting upset when it's mentioned. In fact, every time a phenomenon is tested against it, it turns out to be right on.

Edited May 7, 2013 by itsme86

[Promii]

I'd prefer a single well developed system (perhaps procedurally generated in each new save) to multiple systems. That said, if there were multiple systems, I'd want relativistic effects to me modelled and NO FTL travel. Something like the lighthuggers from Alastair Reynolds Revelation Space universe might be okay as a sort of 'end-game' in the campaign. Their propulsion system is fantastical but their motion still obeys known physics.

Edit: I'll also add that FTL is functionally equivalent to time travel. Even if it were possible, you could potentially violate causality by doing so, opening the sort of grandfather paradox problems that time travel has. See here:

http://www.theculture.org/rich/sharpblue/archives/000089.html

Edited May 7, 2013 by Promii

[Fyrem]

I have no idea how KSP might add more suns/planetary systems. But if they do, I want to be able to laugh/cry when people realize the speeds that they enter the system at and realize that they have to figure out how to bleed off near reliviistic speed.... Aerobreaking at the sun? lol

[TheBeardyMan]

My thoughts on interstellar travel in KSP:

Why can't we have a procedurally generated galaxy with billions of star systems orbiting a central black hole? The game has no need to simulate all of the star systems all of the time; it only needs to simulate the system containing the ship with the current focus, and when a previously visited system is revisited (either by travel of a ship or switching focus), the positions of the planets can be updated depending on the time elapsed since the last visit. To reduce the number of stars being tracked for the purpose of interstellar SOI changes, divide the galaxy into cubes (10ly x 10ly x 10ly perhaps? that'll need tuning). Actively track stars in a ship's current and neighbouring cubes, schedule tracking upgrades, tracking downgrades, and night sky apparent magnitude changes for other stars whose orbits cross the ship's current and neighbouring cubes, and perform a full recalculation on a background thread as a ship itself approaches the boundary of a cube (a very infrequent event).

To make sub-light interstellar travel interesting without making interplanetary travel trivial, add high TWR high ISP engines, but put them at the far future end of a tech tree in career mode, and restrict parts in sandbox mode to those that have been unlocked in career mode. Also, to use such an engine for interstellar travel, you'd have to use a brachistichrone instead of a transfer orbit, so the engine's usefulness for interplanetary travel could be further restricted by having the navigational aids for brachistochrones display interstellar SOI changes only.

[Promii]

I love brachistochrones just because I love saying "brachistochrone". Such a deliciously crunchy word.

[LeonG17]

Perhaps when they introduce the ability to research new parts they might give us the ability to create interstellar engines but that would probably happen much later after we can research parts or perhaps introduce it as a expansion.

[CalculusWarrior]

I see something like the Space Stage in Spore in scope, but harder to visit each planet. I do also agree that having FTL/massively OP engines to travel between star systems would seriously break interplanetary travel.

But we're talking about a feature that is a looooong way off, or might never be implemented at all; so don't get too worked up about it. Just like the expansion packs issue, we don't want to cause a massive firestorm or anything.

Saaay, that gives me an idea. What if one of the prophesied expansion packs is all about interstellar travel?

[m1xte]

We want more solar systems.

We want binary systems.

We want endgame.

We don't want FTL travel.

...

I suggest to MAKE KERBAL SYSTEM A BINARY SYSTEM.

It would give us another solar system and endgame.

If there is any elite 2 players here they know why you don't take missions with time limit to binary systems. (Endgame anyone )

[Holo]

I'm vehemontly opposed to warp drives. I don't want any crazy fantasy parts in my game about a pretend star system inhanited by green aliens that build rockets out of garbage cans!

I don't want limited fuel. It's too much realism for a game in a fictional solar system inhabited by little green men.

In fact, I don't want orbits. You should just be able to click on a planet to fly there, because honestly, physics has no place in a game about little green people.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Holo

[LeonG17]

The entire point of this game is to be a realistic space game where you use real life physics to get your payloads into orbit. The fact that it is set in a different world doesn't mean it should be unrealistic. Squad simply used the Kerbals and Kerbin as an analogue of earth and human space flight but its with a more light-hearted edge. Also, physics affects all games and is present everywhere, you can't escape physics.

Edit: Sorry if you were joking, I often take things too seriously.

Edited May 7, 2013 by LeonG17

[Holo]

The entire point of this game is to be a realistic space game where you use real life physics to get your payloads into orbit. The fact that it is set in a different world doesn't mean it should be unrealistic. Squad simply used the Kerbals and Kerbin as an analogue of earth and human space flight but its with a more light-hearted edge. Also, physics affects all games and is present everywhere, you cant escape physics.

Edit: Sorry if you were joking, I often take things too seriously.

An excellent counter this that kind of thinking. Mind if I quote you on my blog post?

[LeonG17]

An excellent counter this that kind of thinking. Mind if I quote you on my blog post?

Sure, you can quote me. Thanks.

Edited May 7, 2013 by LeonG17

[wbcundiff]

I think the realism has a breaking point but it can be stretched. I think most of us have built things that could not have been launched in reality.

having one or two other systems nearby as a sort of stellar cluster would be more reasonable then exploring the galaxy. if the kerbals were to research cryotech they could build sleeper ships. you would have to time warp the heck out of the mission or else get busy with other stuff in the meatime, but sleeper ships would preserve the realism of the game as compared to warp drive. Also, it is important to remember that we are talking about little green men named Kerman. Kermit was a frog. Many frogs can be frozen and unfrozen and survive the experience easily. Kerbals may live in a similar Solar System but their evolutionary path may lend them more easily to cryostasis than humans.

[ShachonianX]

Seems like we have a big conversation here. Look at this:

http://news.discovery.com/space/history-of-space/project-daedalus-size-comparison-110119.htm

Would need to be orbitally assembled, most likely.

[Pbhead]

Not ok with FTL drives. but I would LOVE interstellar travel as an option. not necessarily a viable one, but an option. perhaps add on a few more time warp levels... who cares if our kerbals are 250 years old when they get there!

I would also be ok with fusion rockets, If you have set up duetarium or tritium mining operations on say, laythe... or you somehow can harvest jool's atmosphere for it. how cool would that be, to have to take your interstellar rocket out to jool before you can even put anything into the tanks! (or, perhaps you managed to bring the stuff back to kerbal)

and even antimatter rockets, like described here: http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/slowerlight.php#valkyrie

but only after say REALLY ridiculous time and effort, like covering Moho with solar panels and particle accelerators, and "mining" sufficient quantities of antimatter.

[Peenvogel]

Although it sounds cool, I wouldn't want this to happen in KSP. This would break the realism the game has to it and also would make all current propulsion systems obsolete.

[BaneOfPilots]

I think they'll add much more to the building of rockets itself and the current solar system. I do hope they add a few more asteroids and dwarf planets.

[ShachonianX]

Although it sounds cool, I wouldn't want this to happen in KSP. This would break the realism the game has to it and also would make all current propulsion systems obsolete.

On the topic of FTL, I agree with this. However, the Daedalus space probe seems like one of the most realistic ideas so far, despite how big it is.

[astocky]

Not ok with FTL drives. but I would LOVE interstellar travel as an option. not necessarily a viable one, but an option. perhaps add on a few more time warp levels... who cares if our kerbals are 250 years old when they get there!

I would also be ok with fusion rockets, If you have set up duetarium or tritium mining operations on say, laythe... or you somehow can harvest jool's atmosphere for it. how cool would that be, to have to take your interstellar rocket out to jool before you can even put anything into the tanks! (or, perhaps you managed to bring the stuff back to kerbal)

and even antimatter rockets, like described here: http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/slowerlight.php#valkyrie

but only after say REALLY ridiculous time and effort, like covering Moho with solar panels and particle accelerators, and "mining" sufficient quantities of antimatter.

Love the reference to project rho atomic rockets That is one of my favourite websites, big thumbs up to you

[Peenvogel]

On the topic of FTL, I agree with this. However, the Daedalus space probe seems like one of the most realistic ideas so far, despite how big it is.

Project Daedalus was a theoretical design and never left the drawing board.

I would rather see the current Kerbol system expand with things like asteroids, a few new planets, rings around certain planets, maybe even space radiation and stuff like that. Once in my life I was promised a universe in a box... it turned out to be the biggest disappointment in my history of gaming. I'm really happy with this Kerbol system... it can expand in countless interesting ways, let's stick to that.